Should NFL refs start being suspended for idiotic calls?

[BillsShredder83]

27 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

All penalties should be challengable, and the final decision should be made by an official in NY, not the ref who's reluctant to overturn a call from his officiating crew.

 

I know we hate the delays caused by challenges, but each coach still only gets 2 per game, so it's not a big deal. And some of these calls are so blatantly wrong that they need to be corrected.

 

 

NY would hate this and cover the zebras backs. i think itd look like that challenge a pass interference rule that happened last year. theyd basically just veto it

[LabattBlue]

No referee is going to be correct 100% of the time, and super duper slo mo and 20 camera angles for the viewers at home, has made them look worse.    This is not a new thing.  Mistakes will be made, and they are part of the game.  You just have to hope they even out over the course of a game/season.

[The Wiz]

Watching the Dallas game yesterday there was a hit on Dak that would have been called 99% of the time.  He threw the ball and the defender reached over the line and hit him with both hands on the helmet.  They ended up winning the game but I believe that was 3rd down and an incompletion at the time and were trailing.

[AuntieEm]

21 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

It the play in question is the one I remember, it is a valid penalty.  Sure, the hit (more of a shove) wasn't hard at all, but it was late and 100% unnecessary.

 

It's not about things being "soft" now, it's about getting players out of the mindset of going for unnecessary/late hits.  A lot of these guys have spent their entire football careers getting to act like thugs, and will test the limits of what they can get away with if you don't draw the line and hold them to it.  Unfortunately this leads to a lot of "weak" roughing penalties that old school football fans will whine about, but it is necessary.

 

Now I admit some refs take it too far and call penalties on valid hits, but a late shove on a QB seemingly to bully or intimidate them is a penalty.  I would rather see them reclassify that play to something like unsportsmanlike conduct rather than roughing the passer.

 

   Indeed. The real problem is when the same infraction occurs in the plain sight of same official and they don't call the same penalty.  When you know its an obvious no call maybe because of some personal bias between ref and player.  Refs never seeing holds of varying degrees on Jerry Hughes comes to mind.  I don't recall all the exact details of that beef Jerry blew up against refs years ago.  But apparently the refs still remember if no call freq was studied we'd likely find Hughes gets a larger non call on obv holding against him.

 

Its like those pictures where everyone sees different images  it's just all dependent on your viewing angle and what jumps out at you initially.   But if you look at it from other angles you see the other images. Also remember the refs hear alot of trash talk that we do not they may sense a mood thats re as dy to ignite if things get chippy  they may get heavy handed with penalties to prevent a bigger problem.

Edited October 18, 2021 by AuntieEm

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, AuntieEm said:

 

   Indeed. The real problem is when the same infraction occurs in the plain sight of same official and they don't call the same penalty.  When you know its an obvious no call maybe because of some personal bias between ref and player.  Refs never seeing holds of varying degrees on Jerry Hughes comes to mind.  I don't recall all the exact details of that beef Jerry blew up against refs years ago.  But apparently the refs still remember if no call freq was studied we'd likely find Hughes gets a larger non call on obv holding against him.

I made this same point in the thread related to officials for the KC game and if they "hold a bias" toward players.

 

Watch Hughes before that incident and after and I would guess he's getting mauled on most plays since then because they weren't happy with him blowing up at them.

[BillsShredder83]

12 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I'd be against suspensions because with gambling,that becomes a mechanism to twist the screws on the officiating. 

 

I read where they do receive performance reviews, and have for some time.   I think any 15 yard (or more) penalty in the 4th quarter should be automatically reviewed.  

 

I also feel that officials should be prohibited from participating in any gambling activity while they are active officials.   

Im 99.9% sure thats always been the case???

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I just leafed through an article in SI from October of 2018, and apparently as of that date, only one had been  fired for poor performance since the league began playing the Super Bowl.

*
I cannot link to it, but it was written by Michael Shapiro, October 25, 2018.  Hugo Cruz was the official.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[nedboy7]

Yes. And then we can have no refs by week 3. And complete anarchy on the field.  

[BillsShredder83]

19 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I'd be against suspensions because with gambling,that becomes a mechanism to twist the screws on the officiating. 

 

I read where they do receive performance reviews, and have for some time.   I think any 15 yard (or more) penalty in the 4th quarter should be automatically reviewed.  

 

I also feel that officials should be prohibited from participating in any gambling activity while they are active officials.   

WOW great point, i never thought of that

[Robert Paulson]

27 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

It the play in question is the one I remember, it is a valid penalty.  Sure, the hit (more of a shove) wasn't hard at all, but it was late and 100% unnecessary.

 

It's not about things being "soft" now, it's about getting players out of the mindset of going for unnecessary/late hits.  A lot of these guys have spent their entire football careers getting to act like thugs, and will test the limits of what they can get away with if you don't draw the line and hold them to it.  Unfortunately this leads to a lot of "weak" roughing penalties that old school football fans will whine about, but it is necessary.

 

Now I admit some refs take it too far and call penalties on valid hits, but a late shove on a QB seemingly to bully or intimidate them is a penalty.  I would rather see them reclassify that play to something like unsportsmanlike conduct rather than roughing the passer.

He was pushed into murray by 73

Edited October 18, 2021 by Robert Paulson

[First Round Bust]

the biggest problem I see is the refs are part-time, have other full-time jobs for the most part, and only work once a week....

Example, remember Johnny Grier, from days gone by...used to work for my company Monday until Friday noon...when he would cut-out for his NFL weekend assignment.

 

The good news is that certainly they have development process, post-game meetings, reviews, grading, film-work.

and have points of emphasis to focus on, esp player (qb) safety which we ultimately appreciate but hate when called. 

 

I also think younger refs, esp retired players, even college guys, if they show interest, acumen (physcial and mental testing) should be part of a development program rather than the oil executive pipeline of old.

 

As a high school ref  (and some low level college) of several sports, for several years, I submit that refs do their best work when they have muscle memory working (mental and physical) this comes from working a series of games in the right balance of not being under-worked nor over-worked...

 

I dont see the part-time model changing, and I do see those touchy (ticky-tack) calls made in the interest of player safety continuing as well which are maddening but proper when you think about it...

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by First Round Bust

[r00tabaga]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think for judgement calls...no.

 

But not understanding a rule and getting it wrong...yes.

 

I really think every game should have an official upstairs to who can watch the play on the telecast and step in.  This New York review team doesn't seem to work.

Agree with everything here.

[AuntieEm]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Goodness, that call was bad!  Everything else notwithstanding, the Cardinals OLman pushed him into Murray

 

     But not with enough force that he was out of control. He had enough control he could have pulled up  and not contacted Murray, at all he just decided he got shoved so he'd try to sell he was pushed into Murray.

 

  The problem gets to when a player decides well I'm gonna at least give a hit that hurts the opponent that justifies the flag and fine that it will incur.  We all know there are literally some players that are outright thugs.  That's not even accounting for the injuries that naturally will occur with such a violent fast sport.  And the stress some of these players put on their bodies training results in some of those serious non contact  injuries.  So trying to protect their product they will control what they can get away with without losing fans.   

[Scott7975]

Something needs to happen.  Performance reviews or something.  The refs are horrible and have turned me off of watching football games for years now as they continually get worse.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

All penalties should be challengable, and the final decision should be made by an official in NY, not the ref who's reluctant to overturn a call from his officiating crew.

 

I know we hate the delays caused by challenges, but each coach still only gets 2 per game, so it's not a big deal. And some of these calls are so blatantly wrong that they need to be corrected.

 

 

i agree, but I think it is easier than this.

 

they have instituted a new procedure now where the video refs on easy calls, will review them Quick and report back to the refs on the field. 
 

Why can’t they just do that now, for every play and penalty— with an emphasis on just trying to fix the easy ones that are really consequential? 

[AuntieEm]

29 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

He was pushed into murray by 73

 

   From my viewpoint he was pushed but that too was without enough force to send him off balance.  He certainly had enough control he had no risk of injury to himself and likewise the injury factor to Murray was low.  I didn't watch entire game so no clue if there were any borderline hits earlier between that flagged player and Murray.  If it was chippy since the first snap then they may have decided to call any little thing.  

Edited October 18, 2021 by AuntieEm

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Third strike should have repercussions.

 

Sent to North Korea

Pit of Sarlacc

 

Something of that nature.

Left alone in a locked room with 100 fans of the team that got screwed by their penalty call.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

It the play in question is the one I remember, it is a valid penalty.  Sure, the hit (more of a shove) wasn't hard at all, but it was late and 100% unnecessary.

 

It's not about things being "soft" now, it's about getting players out of the mindset of going for unnecessary/late hits.  A lot of these guys have spent their entire football careers getting to act like thugs, and will test the limits of what they can get away with if you don't draw the line and hold them to it.  Unfortunately this leads to a lot of "weak" roughing penalties that old school football fans will whine about, but it is necessary.

 

Now I admit some refs take it too far and call penalties on valid hits, but a late shove on a QB seemingly to bully or intimidate them is a penalty.  I would rather see them reclassify that play to something like unsportsmanlike conduct rather than roughing the passer.

 

    Yea because they essentially are weakening the protection to qbs by weak call like this compared to say oh diving for a QBs knees when he has clearly already thrown the ball and is no longer allowed to be hit.  Ala an elbow to the knee of Losman and causing a serious injury.

 

  I don't remember the hit to Losman if it was a late hit it was so clearly a dirty hit from my viewpoint in that he seemed to target the knee and could have avoideid it easily.   I'd have to go watch the play again today to see if my memory is accurate or if the dislike for patriots is blurring the play to fit my natural bias as a Bills fan.

Edited October 18, 2021 by AuntieEm

[WhoTom]

15 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

I don't remember the hit to Losman if it was a late hit it was so clearly a dirty hit from my viewpoint in that he seemed to target the knee and could have avoideid it easily.   I'd have to go watch the play again today to see if my memory is accurate or if the dislike for patriots is blurring the play to fit my natural bias as a Bills fan.

 

Your memory is accurate. That play was Wilfork being Wilfork.

[unbillievable]

Have the TV audience vote "yes " or "no" on overturning the penalty via text message; with the NFL charging $1 each during the 40second play clock. Must have 75% consensus to pass.

 

NFL makes money. Prime time games ensure more neutral audience. Only obvious botched calls are reversed.