Bojo doing Bojo things

[Richard Noggin]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:21 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

this is incredibly dumb by teams. You dont want a punter because he cant hold kicks?? Get someone else to do it, remember when the QBs used to do it, id much rather the backup QB do it just in cases you want to throw the ball.

 

 

I think practice time restrictions in the CBA mean that having a player NOT on STs practice as the holder would harm their ability to practice elsewhere

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Don't think it's only teams with good offense's.   I just looked at kicking stats from some of the teams with the worst records last year, Jax, Caroilna, Seattle, Giants.  All those kickers averaged  about 6 points per game, basically one TD.  That can be the difference between winning an losing a game.  Better teams like Buffalo the kickers worth even more, about 8 points per game.

 

Now look at punting stats.  The difference in net yards between Bojo who everyone is still pining for and Haack is 2.6 yards.  Difference between the best net punting average in league and worst (who BTW is Haack) is about 7 yards per game and the worst teams in the league punt an average of 5 times a game.   So if you take 7 yards more /punt X 5 punts = 35 yards a game more.   6 points will likely end up being more important than 35 yards

 

There were also only 8 blocked punts and 2 punts returned for TD by all the teams together for the entire season.   One of the TD returns was against Bojo so ironically tboth he and HHack gave up one TD.  He and Haack had almost identical number of punts inside the 20, fair caught, and downed.  Bojo also had 268 return yards against him vs 96 for Haack.  Bojo had 4 touchbacks, Haack 7.  When you really look at the stats the two of them are very close, and BTW Bojo can't hold.

 

Games are won and lost more on missed FG's than punt returns

Yep kickers and punters outside of the elite are essential a conglomerate of “solid.” Thanks for the data that shows that Bojo is a marginally better punter, whereas Haack is an elite holder. I do think they should look to the draft for an upgrade, but I would take Haack over Bojo every day of the week. Bojo single handily turned a solid, reliable kicker into a guy who was coating his team games. And that is why the Packers have already replaced him. No thanks. 

[Dan Darragh]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:38 PM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Was it one or two games last season the Bills never punted.

Two regular season games (NE and Atl) plus the playoff game against NE.  And two other games where we punted once.

[maddenboy]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:48 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

Holding is now a part of the job of the punter. Like it or not, it is in the job description. With new CBAs etc these teams barely practice at all. And with everyone bigger and faster now, if it isn’t a perfect snap, hold, kick its gonna probably get blocked. so it needs to be streamlined and automatic. 
 

Punters and kickers are all kind of the same. There are some elite guys, and then a bunch of average dudes, and guys who suck. So if the guy can’t hold, he really can’t do the job. 
 

That’s like having a McDonald’s employee who makes great burgers, but just can’t seem to figure out the fryer, so the fries come out bad and soggy. You are going to just fire that person and find someone who is at least ok doing both. 

there is a reason that some punters dont hold. 

 

It was in one of the draft threads complaining about Araiza.  A poster noted that the reason Araiza doesnt know how to hold is not laziness.  its because he was busy practicing as the placekicker. 

 

So, since dedicated kickers dont ever need to learn to hold and dont have time to, it seems some college punters have legit reason to not know how to hold.

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

there is a reason that some punters dont hold. 

 

It was in one of the draft threads complaining about Araiza.  A poster noted that the reason Araiza doesnt know how to hold is not laziness.  its because he was busy practicing as the placekicker. 

 

So, since dedicated kickers dont ever need to learn to hold and dont have time to, it seems some college punters have legit reason to not know how to hold.

 

I get that, but once the NFL determines that you are punter, you have to learn how to do it as it is 50% of the job. That's all. Bojo is terrible at it, and has not gotten better. Plus he was not the place kicker in college so I am not sure what his excuse is. 

 

Araiza will likely be adequate at it because he is an excellent athlete and played DB in high school. He isn't just some soccer kid playing football. Haack is excellent because he was a wide receiver in high school. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by MrEpsYtown

[Orlando Tim]

9 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Don't think it's only teams with good offense's.   I just looked at kicking stats from some of the teams with the worst records last year, Jax, Caroilna, Seattle, Giants.  All those kickers averaged  about 6 points per game, basically one TD.  That can be the difference between winning an losing a game.  Better teams like Buffalo the kickers worth even more, about 8 points per game.

 

Now look at punting stats.  The difference in net yards between Bojo who everyone is still pining for and Haack is 2.6 yards.  Difference between the best net punting average in league and worst (who BTW is Haack) is about 7 yards per game and the worst teams in the league punt an average of 5 times a game.   So if you take 7 yards more /punt X 5 punts = 35 yards a game more.   6 points will likely end up being more important than 35 yards

 

There were also only 8 blocked punts and 2 punts returned for TD by all the teams together for the entire season.   One of the TD returns was against Bojo so ironically tboth he and HHack gave up one TD.  He and Haack had almost identical number of punts inside the 20, fair caught, and downed.  Bojo also had 268 return yards against him vs 96 for Haack.  Bojo had 4 touchbacks, Haack 7.  When you really look at the stats the two of them are very close, and BTW Bojo can't hold.

 

Games are won and lost more on missed FG's than punt returns

You have done much more in depth research than I have and I did not realize how close the best and worst punters are to each other. If Buffalo got the best per kick punter in league he will likely only matter 20 yards in a normal game vs 3 pts on a bad hold. In that case holding ability is more important than punting, because 3 pts is worth more than 20 yards in almost all situations. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yep kickers and punters outside of the elite are essential a conglomerate of “solid.” Thanks for the data that shows that Bojo is a marginally better punter, whereas Haack is an elite holder. I do think they should look to the draft for an upgrade, but I would take Haack over Bojo every day of the week. Bojo single handily turned a solid, reliable kicker into a guy who was coating his team games. And that is why the Packers have already replaced him. No thanks. 

 

Agree on drafting a punter.  Likely though whomever it is he may have limited holding experience as read in college most holding is done by redshirt freshman QB.  But then if that guy becomes the starter or even backup by 2nd year, sounds like he's no longer holding then, now the new guy takes over.  So wonder how a rookie punter will do WRT holding??

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree on drafting a punter.  Likely though whomever it is he may have limited holding experience as read in college most holding is done by redshirt freshman QB.  But then if that guy becomes the starter or even backup by 2nd year, sounds like he's no longer holding then, now the new guy takes over.  So wonder how a rookie punter will do WRT holding??

 

Guys who are punting prospects know that they will have to hold in the NFL. So they have to be doing it in all of their training leading up to the draft. I am guessing teams make them do it on workout visits and pro days. I am not sure since no one cares about punting workouts.

 

I guess my point is, Bojo has been in the league for 4 years no and his holding still sucks. That's on him. I think he is done in the league as a starting punter. He simply is not good enough to accept his deficiencies. 

[Mr. WEO]

weirdest bumped thread of the year...

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

weirdest bumped thread of the year...

 

I dunno, I thought the Jordan Phillips thread from three years ago was pretty weird. 

[BillsFan4]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

weirdest bumped thread of the year...

You’re welcome (for the amusement 😂) ! 
 

I just thought it was interesting that GB moved on from Bojo for the same reasons we did when I read the comments from the Packers GM at the league owners meetings

[WayTooShabby]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I get that, but once the NFL determines that you are punter, you have to learn how to do it as it is 50% of the job. That's all. Bojo is terrible at it, and has not gotten better. Plus he was not the place kicker in college so I am not sure what his excuse is. 

 

Araiza will likely be adequate at it because he is an excellent athlete and played DB in high school. He isn't just some soccer kid playing football. Haack is excellent because he was a wide receiver in high school. 

Since Bojo is a left-footed kicker, it may be safe to assume he is also left-handed. So, that may come into play with his troubles holding. He would either be 1) holding on the "normal" side that the kicker is used to but not holding with his dominant hand, or 2) holding with his dominant hand but being lined up on the opposite side of the ball, which could negatively affect the kicker. As a lefty myself, I find lots of things extra difficult!

[RoyBatty is alive]

21 hours ago, Greatdane21 said:

Where is it written the punter has to hold ? There are backup wr db etc  just as capable 

for years Cleveland had a defensive back holding for Lou groza.

Was that back when the statue of Liberty play was all the rage?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

You’re welcome (for the amusement 😂) ! 
 

I just thought it was interesting that GB moved on from Bojo for the same reasons we did when I read the comments from the Packers GM at the league owners meetings

 

Bills should bring him back

[benderbender]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Bills should bring him back

This is difficult. We didn't like the "booming a 70 yard punt twice a year but can be the reason we don't make 3 FGs punter." We tried the "FGs are more important than punts but don't count on 40 yards punter." Maybe there's a middle ground.

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, benderbender said:

This is difficult. We didn't like the "booming a 70 yard punt twice a year but can be the reason we don't make 3 FGs punter." We tried the "FGs are more important than punts but don't count on 40 yards punter." Maybe there's a middle ground.

 

As a rookie, Bass broke the Bills scoring record with 141 points.  He also broke the record of made FG in a game.  He made 82.4% of his FG and 97% of his PATs.

 

His holder was Bojo.  After Bass made 6 FG in the Jets game, the combo of Bass/Bojo would miss only 1 FG the rest of the season (a 61 yarder).

 

Without Bojo, Bass made the same number of FG with 2 less attempts (87.5%) and all of his PAT.  Bojo certainly wasn't "holding" Bass back, but people here sure cling to that narrative.

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

As a rookie, Bass broke the Bills scoring record with 141 points.  He also broke the record of made FG in a game.  He made 82.4% of his FG and 97% of his PATs.

 

His holder was Bojo.  After Bass made 6 FG in the Jets game, the combo of Bass/Bojo would miss only 1 FG the rest of the season (a 61 yarder).

 

Without Bojo, Bass made the same number of FG with 2 less attempts (87.5%) and all of his PAT.  Bojo certainly wasn't "holding" Bass back, but people here sure cling to that narrative.

I can’t speak for others but I never once said, or implied, he was holding Bass back.

 

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both times Bojo was released, holding ability was mentioned though.

holding ability was also mentioned by Beane as one of the reasons he signed/kept Matt Haack. Mason Crosby mentioned issues with the hold after missed kicks too (and observers caught it on video. Laces in).
 

It seems to clearly be something Bojo struggles to do consistently. I doubt it was the only reason he was released by GB and Buffalo. But I have to believe it factored into the decision.

[Mr. WEO]

43 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I can’t speak for others but I never once said, or implied, he was holding Bass back.

 

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both times Bojo was released, holding ability was mentioned though.

holding ability was also mentioned by Beane as one of the reasons he signed/kept Matt Haack. Mason Crosby mentioned issues with the hold after missed kicks too (and observers caught it on video. Laces in).
 

It seems to clearly be something Bojo struggles to do consistently. I doubt it was the only reason he was released by GB and Buffalo. But I have to believe it factored into the decision.

 

Bass's rookie results point towards Bojo (other than in the early part of the season--this could have been on Bass as well) not struggling to consistently do.  That combo was killing big kicks for the majority of the season, right off the bus...

 

There were a few laces in seen in GB, but clearly Crosby had the yips in that game.  With the same holder, in the previous season, a rookie K made 6 FG in a single game.   

 

I don't see a lot of the GB FO saying they got rid of Bojo because he can't hold....

[MrEpsYtown]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:09 AM, WayTooShabby said:

Since Bojo is a left-footed kicker, it may be safe to assume he is also left-handed. So, that may come into play with his troubles holding. He would either be 1) holding on the "normal" side that the kicker is used to but not holding with his dominant hand, or 2) holding with his dominant hand but being lined up on the opposite side of the ball, which could negatively affect the kicker. As a lefty myself, I find lots of things extra difficult!

Definitely valid points, but Bojorquez is actually right handed. Lefty kicker but right hand dominant. I don’t know how rare that is, but it’s a fun fact in his bio. 

[CSBill]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:59 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Bills should bring him back

 

No!