report- Empire State Development downtown stadium proposal

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

After Nashville last weekend, I have to say I realized how much I LOVED the option of hotels and bars in walking distance. I had been to games there multiple times, but this thread reminds me of how different it could be. Not saying better or worse, just different. I don’t like the whole drinking, driving and parking aspect that requires planning for games in remote areas. Nothing is perfect, but Nashville handled it with ease with packed hotels and bars downtown. It was a blast, once again! 

 

People often fear change, but change can be good. Games in OP are GREAT, but there are other types of experiences that can also be great. People should be open minded, in all ways. 

So...we just need to turn Buffalo into Nashville...

[Augie]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

So...we just need to turn Buffalo into Nashville...

Did I say that? 

 

I just mentioned the advantages. I’ll be honest, I know Nashville pretty well. I left my hotel, walked a few blocks into the noise and craziness….and returned to my hotel bar. I can do Broadway now and then, but it’s not my thing. My hotel bar full of Bills fans was awesome! 

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

Did I say that? 

 

I just mentioned the advantages. I’ll be honest, I know Nashville pretty well. I left my hotel, walked a few blocks into the noise and craziness….and returned to my hotel bar. I can do Broadway now and then, but it’s not my thing. My hotel bar full of Bills fans was awesome! 

It's just weird to make that comparison, in my opinion. The experience in that Buffalo location is going to be nothing like the experience in downtown Nashville.

 

Isn't the Titans stadium in walking distance from downtown?

[ALF]

The proposed site of stadium itself bordered by Hayward St , S. Park St , Hamburg St and the 190 is mainly residential . It would be a hike to downtown from there. Would be a very expensive alternative to Orchard Park  

   https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8716537,-78.8602305,17z  

[davefan66]

5 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

By razing all the abandoned project buildings they would recover the neighborhood from what it is. There would be progress to build on around the stadium and the whole neighborhood will change from the nasty dangerous wasteland it is today. The neighborhood would change and grow around the stadium. 

These projects are vacant and dangerous and the city will likely leave it like forever unless a project like a stadium comes along. Time to act I think.

 

What you are basically saying is, “build it, and they will come”.  Only reference I have is Niagara Falls, NY.  One of the 7 wonders of the world, surrounded by wasteland.  I know, it’s a harsh comparison.

 

Whats interesting is watching these rehab shows where people buy large amounts of run down homes and rebuild neighborhoods.  Is that happening on Buffalo?  Is there a way to entice people to do that?  That’s a more sustainable plan than forcing a stadium into a rundown area.
 

Building a stadium isn’t the answer to rebuilding Buffalo.  You’d need 24 x 7 x 365  entertainment to drive that type of a project.   Not 8-9 home games a year with the hope of playoff games.  Most importantly, there is no current infrastructure to handle 65k fans and their cars getting in and out of the stadium.  The cost to build that infrastructure would kill the project. Sabres games have less than 1/3 the proposed capacity of the new Bills stadium, and it’s hell leaving games.  Is OP perfect for ingress and egress?  No, but drive times are not terrible.
 

Lastly, any project that limits tailgating is nuts.  To fill a new stadium with increased ticket prices, you need a reason other than te game

 to draw people..tailgating is one of them.  Hoping for a Nashville type of atmosphere to pop-up near a new stadium is a pipe dream, either downtown, OP or wherever.

Edited October 22, 2021 by davefan66

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, Nitro said:

Indy tore down the dome, added to the convention center and built a new stadium close b in a warehouse district.  The area is booming.  Underused properties were bought up.  Hotels put in, restaurants opened and bars and night life blossomed.  It is worth the look for Buffalo.

Of course it would be worth a look... But financially it's probably not going to work

 

The cost of a downtown stadium is going to be a good amount higher than building one in the suburbs

[Beast]

6 hours ago, Nitro said:

Indy tore down the dome, added to the convention center and built a new stadium close b in a warehouse district.  The area is booming.  Underused properties were bought up.  Hotels put in, restaurants opened and bars and night life blossomed.  It is worth the look for Buffalo.

The Indiana tax rate is so much lower than New York State. To expect a football stadium will have some big economic boost for that area of Buffalo is a fairytale.

[CSBill]

The more I think about it, as an "out-of-town'er," the more I like the idea of staying on Orchard Park. It is so easy to get in and out of, I enjoy the unique neighborhood feel to it (how many kids have the locals put through college with lawn parking?), and in the main lots there is plenty of space for our infamous tailgating. Yeah, for those reasons I like staying on OP.

 

But I do wish some type of retractable roof would be considered, no matter where they put it. That would greatly improve the fan experience. Windy days in the Ralph (Highmark) can be brutal.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, davefan66 said:

 

What you are basically saying is, “build it, and they will come”.  Only reference I have is Niagara Falls, NY.  One of the 7 wonders of the world, surrounded by wasteland.  I know, it’s a harsh comparison.

 

Whats interesting is watching these rehab shows where people buy large amounts of run down homes and rebuild neighborhoods.  Is that happening on Buffalo?  Is there a way to entice people to do that?  That’s a more sustainable plan than forcing a stadium into a rundown area.
 

Building a stadium isn’t the answer to rebuilding Buffalo.  You’d need 24 x 7 x 365  entertainment to drive that type of a project.   Not 8-9 home games a year with the hope of playoff games.  Most importantly, there is no current infrastructure to handle 65k fans and their cars getting in and out of the stadium.  The cost to build that infrastructure would kill the project. Sabres games have less than 1/3 the proposed capacity of the new Bills stadium, and it’s hell leaving games.  Is OP perfect for ingress and egress?  No, but drive times are not terrible.
 

Lastly, any project that limits tailgating is nuts.  To fill a new stadium with increased ticket prices, you need a reason other than te game

 to draw people..tailgating is one of them.  Hoping for a Nashville type of atmosphere to pop-up near a new stadium is a pipe dream, either downtown, OP or wherever.

 

For heavens sake, not everyone tailgates! And playing downtown won't end tailgating.

Edited October 22, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Nitro]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

The Indiana tax rate is so much lower than New York State. To expect a football stadium will have some big economic boost for that area of Buffalo is a fairytale.

Agree on the tax but not a fairy tale.  Location close to the casino can be a catalyst to development.  The First Ward needs it. 

[Hammers Lot]

Couple of points. The blackout drunks. Where? I definitely don't see it in my Lot or walking into the stadium like I've seen in the past. Restaurants. All round the stadium and many within 2 miles, roughly the same distance as pearl street brewary to the first ward location. I would also think the new Orchard Park stadium will have a restaurant used 365. You can get out of the stadium traffic and head downtown fast if you know where to park. Per Stadium drawing there is a hotel in the background (current stadium location). Don't ask how I know, I ain't telling & for those who know my past, word. The so called billion$ needed for infrastructure, use it for existing roads & bridges (you forget about them needing repair desperately) not concentrated in one area. Sure the politicians need to do their own study. Buffalo common council statement of no buffalo sites (3) considered in the past is ridiculous. First ward residents don't want it in their area sighting the traffic after Sabres games. There will be 3 public meetings if you need to express your feeling (Pegulas  already did this with the questioner/survey in the future. I think location- design of stadium is done and decided. I'm guessing after the Super Bowl an announcement will be made. Side note Pegulas 716 bar is now southern tier brewing, wondering why the Pegulas would give up their bar 🤔 My 35 year season ticket holder local taxpayer unbiased opinion. 

11 hours ago, Nitro said:

Indy tore down the dome, added to the convention center and built a new stadium close b in a warehouse district.  The area is booming.  Underused properties were bought up.  Hotels put in, restaurants opened and bars and night life blossomed.  It is worth the look for Buffalo.

How many Fortune 500 companies are in Indy compared to Buffalo. Went to a Bills Vs Indy game with a Buddy.  The night life- walking around a corner guy getting robbed at gun point. No thanks 

[davefan66]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

For heavens sake, not everyone tailgates! And playing downtown won't end tailgating.

Lots of people tailgate.
 

From what I’ve read, and the looks of the lot size proposed in Buffalo, seems tailgating would be greatly reduced near the stadium.

 

Not a deal breaker, but would drastically change how I view my game day if I couldn’t tailgate.  Right now, I’d put it at 50/50 if I’d renew without viable tailgating.

 

it’s not about getting drunk anymore for me. Nuts about watching people have fun, a sense of community and us going with my son and friends.

[Augie]

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It's just weird to make that comparison, in my opinion. The experience in that Buffalo location is going to be nothing like the experience in downtown Nashville.

Isn't the Titans stadium in walking distance from downtown?

 

Yes, and that’s my point. It’s very easy and enjoyable to be able to walk to the game without worrying about drinking/driving, traffic and parking. It doesn’t matter if it’s Nashville or Cincinnati. That has a certain appeal to it for many people. 

 

 

EDIT: To be clear, it’s not the “Nashville experience” near the stadium that I enjoyed so much. In fact, pre-game I walked down to Broadway where all the honky tonks are with all the live music….then I walked back to my hotel to be in the bar without all the insanely LOUD NOISE Nashville offers. I sat at the bar with Bills fans and had a few drinks and nice conversations. Not once over the weekend did I go into a single place on Broadway. It was the convenience factor that I enjoyed, a comfortable walk from a nice hotel to the game. I strolled around the lot a bit to see some tailgating before going in. It wasn’t like OP, but it was adequate, IMO, for most fans. 

 

.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Augie

[Motorin']

7 hours ago, Beast said:

The Indiana tax rate is so much lower than New York State. To expect a football stadium will have some big economic boost for that area of Buffalo is a fairytale.

 

The city of Buffalo's property tax is 4 times less than the rest of Erie County. 

[ColoradoBills]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Yes, and that’s my point. It’s very easy and enjoyable to be able to walk to the game without worrying about drinking/driving and parking. It doesn’t matter if it’s Nashville or Cincinnati. That has a certain appeal to it for many people. 

 

It also seems to me that the stadium in the 1st ward could anchor the "playground" area of Buffalo and be an option to the true downtown area.

Stadium, Auditorium, Casino, Riverworks, the Buffalo River and Canalside not too far away.

 

The triangle area of South Park, Louisiana and Ohio St is just begging for a redevelopment centered on a "fun zone" for Buffalo.

IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8718878,-78.8683064,16.25z

[soflabillsfan1]

The downtown Stadium idea is still one of the worst i've ever heard.  Downtown Buffalo sucks.

[MAJBobby]

A dome Downtown preferably. But Dome anywhere is fine with me. 
 

end of the Day. It has to be a Dome. I want my high powered offense to play in the best possible conditions for all home games to include all future 1 seeds. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by MAJBobby

[BillStime]

Developers like Termini and more recently (and significantly more impressively) Doug Jemal are investing significant funds in downtown Buffalo for years now... it's time the State step up and invest in the City and allow developers (and the region) reap the benefits.

 

Termini: Bills stadium can work successfully in downtown Buffalo

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by BillStime

[40_40_Vision]

Should the Bills be downtown? Of course they should. Will they build a stadium downtown? Of course not. They didn’t move down there when they left Jefferson Ave & they not moving down there now.

[beerme1]

18 hours ago, davefan66 said:

 

What you are basically saying is, “build it, and they will come”.  Only reference I have is Niagara Falls, NY.  One of the 7 wonders of the world, surrounded by wasteland.  I know, it’s a harsh comparison.

 

Whats interesting is watching these rehab shows where people buy large amounts of run down homes and rebuild neighborhoods.  Is that happening on Buffalo?  Is there a way to entice people to do that?  That’s a more sustainable plan than forcing a stadium into a rundown area.
 

Building a stadium isn’t the answer to rebuilding Buffalo.  You’d need 24 x 7 x 365  entertainment to drive that type of a project.   Not 8-9 home games a year with the hope of playoff games.  Most importantly, there is no current infrastructure to handle 65k fans and their cars getting in and out of the stadium.  The cost to build that infrastructure would kill the project. Sabres games have less than 1/3 the proposed capacity of the new Bills stadium, and it’s hell leaving games.  Is OP perfect for ingress and egress?  No, but drive times are not terrible.
 

Lastly, any project that limits tailgating is nuts.  To fill a new stadium with increased ticket prices, you need a reason other than te game

 to draw people..tailgating is one of them.  Hoping for a Nashville type of atmosphere to pop-up near a new stadium is a pipe dream, either downtown, OP or wherever.

 

 

Well then you should expand your vision. Look what they did in Niagara Falls Ontario.

Do you understand that the Perry St project neighborhood will likely NEVER be rebuilt? This is Buffalo we're talking about.

I agree that it is hell leaving Sabres games although surely not too much right now lol.  But part of the bigger picture here is building infrastructure.

 

Have you seen this? Sure looks to me like build it and they will come.

 

https://buffalonews.com/business/local/termini-bills-stadium-can-work-successfully-in-downtown-buffalo/article_51234f2c-3358-11ec-9c2e-b7fb9076f904.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by beerme1