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Schefter; Herbert is "lock" for HOF, Mahomes / Herbert best young QBs in NFL


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56 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Someone needs to remind Shefter that Mahomes got to sit for an entire year. :thumbsup:

 

Well Allen sat for the 1st half of his 1st game, that's about the same!! LOL

 

Mahomes did though come out firing on all cylinders immediately as a starter whereas it took Allen two full seasons to get there, so is a difference.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

OP heard Schefters comment yet he missed them explaining why they had to delay the game like 6 times…

 

 

I'm definitely going to give myself a stern talking to about that.  I might even put myself on double secret probation...

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I would attribute his comments to having to fill 30 minutes and wanting to create a hot take to stir up discussion. 

 

Herbert is a great young qb, but saying that someone is a lock for the HOF after 18 starts is not wise. Consider some of these recent young players that started on that track and had their careers derailed:

 

Shawne Merriman (40 sacks in first 3 years)

Josh Freeman (2nd season had 3400 yards, 25TD-6INT)

Peyton Hillis and Vince Young (both made the cover of madden. Vince won ROY)

Steve Slaton (won rookie of the year)

RGIII (ROY)

 

There are countless others, but these were the first to come to mind.

 

Success in the NFL requires constant improvement and durability. One fluke injury can ruin a guy's whole career. I think once a guy has played at a high level over a decade we can start to have the discussion over whether he's HOF worthy.

 

 

Edited by Allen2Diggs
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Herbert might end up being a great QB but as of right now the only accomplishment he has on his resume is winning against Mahomes in KC and being the AFCW division leader through 4 weeks. A lot can and will likely change in the coming weeks and I still find it hard to believe the Chiefs won't end up winning that division when the dust settles.

 

But coaching matters and having a very aggressive head coach who has shown so far he's going to go for it on 4th down frequently until it costs him has gone a long way to getting Herbert and the chargers to where they are. This is also why McDermott must follow suite this week against the Chiefs even if we have a 2 score lead at any point in the game.

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So I live in Texas and went to the Wendys drive through and they answered the intercom with "Hello, what can I get for you?" and not "Josh Allen is greatest QB of all time." so I started blasting until I made them all proclaim it with conviction. 

 

5pdog1.jpg

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This is so stupid of Sheftee. Ever hear of Greg Cook? RGlll? Dan Pastorini? 
The kid looks great. No doubt. But he’s only played a max of 20 games. Hardly a HOF measurement..🤦‍♂️
 

Shart happens. 🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-west/los-angeles-chargers/nfl-world-reacts-to-adam-schefters-bold-justin-herbert-comment

 

Schefter made this pronouncement in the pregame commentary when the start of the game was delayed 30 minutes for a thunder storm.  (A $5 BILLION dome stadium and they can't play in it during a thunder storm?  What the h*ll?)

 

He also said during the same soliloquy that Mahomes and Herbert were the two best young QBs in the NFL and would be the choices of any NFL GM looking to start a franchise.

 

I'm not here to put down Mahomes or Herbert, I agree with Schefty that they are amazing young QBs.   I don't need to put them down to believe that Josh is fantastic too.  Was Schefty just throwing a hot take out there on the fly and just overlooked Allen, or does he really put Mahomes and Herbert in a different tier than Allen? 

 

I think Allen legitimately deserves to be in the conversation for best young NFL QB.  I would put Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Watson all in that group.  Watson obviously has some issues that could derail his career, and I could see some people leaving him out of that conversation right now because of it.  I'm not going to get mad about someone believing that Allen isn't the best of the three, but for Josh to not even earn an honorable mention is a bit strange.

 

For my money, I wouldn't trade Allen for either of them.  That's not a knock on Mahomes or Herbert, I just have a huge amount of faith in Josh and believe he has the traits to be an all-time great QB.  I also believe Josh's DNA fits Buffalo far better than either of the other two guys would.  

 

 

 

 

I want the franchise to be competitive, go win games big and small, and get to and win a SB or two.   Couldn't care less about power rankings and personal beauty contests.  For example, you think Edmunds is a two time "pro bowler"?   Didn't think so.   The beauty contest sh-t takes care of itself if your team takes care of business.   All three QBs are terrific and amazing to watch, along with Joe Burrow and a couple others.   The DNA fit stuff is irrelevant to the issue at hand.   Let's go find a way to beat KC as a team.   The media beauty contest judges will follow.  

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5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

This is so stupid of Sheftee. Ever hear of Greg Cook? RGlll? Dan Pastorini? 
The kid looks great. No doubt. But he’s only played a max of 20 games. Hardly a HOF measurement..🤦‍♂️
 

Shart happens. 🤷‍♂️

 

I think the Herbert hype is similar to Mahomes (who did sit his rookie year) in that he's been so good out of the game and if the Chargers had better luck last year (i.e. not Anthony Lynn coaching) they may have even been in the playoff picture.

 

But yes agree that things can happen to derail the entire Herbert hype train.

 

It's pretty crazy though that regardless of the Bills seeding in the playoffs, they are certainly going to end up facing a guy like Herbert, Mahomes, Jackson, etc in the very first playoff game which goes to show how loaded the AFC.

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1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-west/los-angeles-chargers/nfl-world-reacts-to-adam-schefters-bold-justin-herbert-comment

 

Schefter made this pronouncement in the pregame commentary when the start of the game was delayed 30 minutes for a thunder storm.  (A $5 BILLION dome stadium and they can't play in it during a thunder storm?  What the h*ll?)

 

He also said during the same soliloquy that Mahomes and Herbert were the two best young QBs in the NFL and would be the choices of any NFL GM looking to start a franchise.

 

I'm not here to put down Mahomes or Herbert, I agree with Schefty that they are amazing young QBs.   I don't need to put them down to believe that Josh is fantastic too.  Was Schefty just throwing a hot take out there on the fly and just overlooked Allen, or does he really put Mahomes and Herbert in a different tier than Allen? 

 

I think Allen legitimately deserves to be in the conversation for best young NFL QB.  I would put Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Watson all in that group.  Watson obviously has some issues that could derail his career, and I could see some people leaving him out of that conversation right now because of it.  I'm not going to get mad about someone believing that Allen isn't the best of the three, but for Josh to not even earn an honorable mention is a bit strange.

 

For my money, I wouldn't trade Allen for either of them.  That's not a knock on Mahomes or Herbert, I just have a huge amount of faith in Josh and believe he has the traits to be an all-time great QB.  I also believe Josh's DNA fits Buffalo far better than either of the other two guys would.  

 

 

 

 

I think Allen has the greatest potential of the three. I think he is practically unstoppable when he is. On. The trouble is I don't know if he has been "on" this year?

Close to it vs. Washington I guess. He played well vs. Houston by all accounts....

I think to beat KC this week he has to play better than he has this year....

In his defense, our ability to protect him has not been as good as last season although he killed it in games last season with poor(er) protection.

C'mon Josh! Just kick ass this week!

 

Go Bills!

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1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-west/los-angeles-chargers/nfl-world-reacts-to-adam-schefters-bold-justin-herbert-comment

 

Schefter made this pronouncement in the pregame commentary when the start of the game was delayed 30 minutes for a thunder storm.  (A $5 BILLION dome stadium and they can't play in it during a thunder storm?  What the h*ll?)

 

He also said during the same soliloquy that Mahomes and Herbert were the two best young QBs in the NFL and would be the choices of any NFL GM looking to start a franchise.

 

I'm not here to put down Mahomes or Herbert, I agree with Schefty that they are amazing young QBs.   I don't need to put them down to believe that Josh is fantastic too.  Was Schefty just throwing a hot take out there on the fly and just overlooked Allen, or does he really put Mahomes and Herbert in a different tier than Allen? 

 

I think Allen legitimately deserves to be in the conversation for best young NFL QB.  I would put Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Watson all in that group.  Watson obviously has some issues that could derail his career, and I could see some people leaving him out of that conversation right now because of it.  I'm not going to get mad about someone believing that Allen isn't the best of the three, but for Josh to not even earn an honorable mention is a bit strange.

 

For my money, I wouldn't trade Allen for either of them.  That's not a knock on Mahomes or Herbert, I just have a huge amount of faith in Josh and believe he has the traits to be an all-time great QB.  I also believe Josh's DNA fits Buffalo far better than either of the other two guys would.  

 

 

 

 

Today, I consider Josh to be a Top-5 QB in the NFL.  But... for the reasons highlighted, I consider Josh to be, without a doubt, to be the Best QB in the league for the Buffalo Bills.

 

The events surrounding Josh's drafting by Buffalo are just short of a spiritual or religious event. There was more than luck at play during that period.

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2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Hes really turned into a tool. Read an article on him having a business that took bets with Kraft. Dude went from a lock, to an attention hoe, to less credible alllll the way down right untrustworthy. Huge conflict of interest. Idc what he says, and he's been wrong a ton lately. Anything he says I have to wonder how is he spinning this to make $, cause there's an angle 👎

 

Isn't he the one who was saying that Marrone would be the next coach of the Jets (the two of them shared an agent) after St Doug quit on the Bills?

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2 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-west/los-angeles-chargers/nfl-world-reacts-to-adam-schefters-bold-justin-herbert-comment

 

Schefter made this pronouncement in the pregame commentary when the start of the game was delayed 30 minutes for a thunder storm.  (A $5 BILLION dome stadium and they can't play in it during a thunder storm?  What the h*ll?)

 

He also said during the same soliloquy that Mahomes and Herbert were the two best young QBs in the NFL and would be the choices of any NFL GM looking to start a franchise.

 

I'm not here to put down Mahomes or Herbert, I agree with Schefty that they are amazing young QBs.   I don't need to put them down to believe that Josh is fantastic too.  Was Schefty just throwing a hot take out there on the fly and just overlooked Allen, or does he really put Mahomes and Herbert in a different tier than Allen? 

 

I think Allen legitimately deserves to be in the conversation for best young NFL QB.  I would put Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Watson all in that group.  Watson obviously has some issues that could derail his career, and I could see some people leaving him out of that conversation right now because of it.  I'm not going to get mad about someone believing that Allen isn't the best of the three, but for Josh to not even earn an honorable mention is a bit strange.

 

For my money, I wouldn't trade Allen for either of them.  That's not a knock on Mahomes or Herbert, I just have a huge amount of faith in Josh and believe he has the traits to be an all-time great QB.  I also believe Josh's DNA fits Buffalo far better than either of the other two guys would.  

 

 

 

 

I can’t bring myself to care what he thinks.  

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He could have his leg snapped and never be the same. I don't think it is wise to offer hall of fame takes until a player has significant seasons under their belt and have achieved something. Mahomes is close because he has already taken his team to two Superbowls, winning one, and he has been an MVP. He already has some hall of fame worthy accolades. But Herbert? Not even close. At least let him take his team to the playoffs first.

Edited by MJS
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The NFL is loaded with quality young QB's. In the AFC alone you have Mahomes, Herbert, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson all performing at high levels (and if Deshaun Watson ever comes back that's another MVP caliber beast.) Then you have Burrow and Baker Mayfield who have shown stretches of good play and potential. Then of course you have the 2021 rookies who are still developing, Lawrence, Mac Jones, and Zack Wilson. 

 

That's 5 (including Watson) high MVP caliber QB's in the AFC age 26 or younger. Another 2 QB's playing a fairly high level and 3 more highly drafted rookies breaking in. Then in the NFC you have Kyler Murray who is killing it at an MVP level and Darnold showing some improved play too. I don't think I have ever seen 6 young QB's playing at an MVP level in the NFL like this ever. That's in addition to QB's still in their primes like Russell Wilson and vets like Aaron Rodger and Brady. 

 

The best time ever for QB play in my opinion. 

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Mahomes is the "default" QB when this topic pops up as well it should. The rest is subjective and opiniated. 

Allen, Herbert, Murray, Jackson usually follow as filler. Herbert was in the spotlight so it's convenient for Sheftner to mention. Don't be surprised if next Sunday night he says, Mahomes and Allen are this generations Brady and Manning. 

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2 hours ago, SCBills said:

They mentioned Josh Allen a few minutes later, and Schefter clarified that Josh Allen belongs there too, but they were discussing young QB's that came onto the scene firing on all cylinders - whereas Josh was developed into the guy he is now. 

I would still argue allen came into the league firing on all cylinders relative to the talent around him.  Herbert and mahomes got dropped into  fantastic situations because the chargers couldn't win a single close game and the chiefs were already a solid team drafting a qb that they could groom.  Allen made Robert foster look like an all pro lol I can't think of anyone else that could do that.  This whole narrative of he was bad and then worked hard to improve is pretty exaggerated in my opinion...he won like half his starts with an all time awful roster with receivers that led the league in drops and were last in the league in separation

Edited by Generic_Bills_Fan
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2 hours ago, SCBills said:

They mentioned Josh Allen a few minutes later, and Schefter clarified that Josh Allen belongs there too, but they were discussing young QB's that came onto the scene firing on all cylinders - whereas Josh was developed into the guy he is now. 

 

Appreciate the clarification, but shame on Schefty if so:  Mahomes sat his entire rookie season, then was handed the keys to an offense that was 6th in points, 5th in yards, 7th in passing yards his rookie season (while he sat on the bench and watched Smith run it). 

 

Did KC's offense take a big step forward with Mahomes 2nd season (the first season he played)?  Absolutely!  He was amazing his rookie year! 

 

But we'll never know if he "came onto the scene firing on all cylinders" because he spent his first year in the NFL on the bench.

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