Bills unlikely to leave Buffalo if PSE doesn’t get public or state funding for stadium

[The Frankish Reich]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you google the Top 50 Metro areas in the United States, the WNY area comes in at #49.

Here's the list in descending order of population that do not have an NFL Team:

 

13 Riverside/San Bernardino

17 San Diego

22 Orlando

24 San Antonio

28 Austin

32 Columbus

35 San Jose

37 Virginia Beach

38 Providence

40 Milwaukee

41 Oklahoma City

44 Richmond

47 Salt Lake City

48 Hartford

Best choices here: 

- San Diego: a sympathy choice, and there's money to be made with an NFL team in a vacation destination

- San Antonio: big growth area, more business friendly climate than Austin, a little farther from Dallas

- OKC and or Tulsa: would slice off some of the Cowboys' base, huge football country, but may have trouble diverting attention from NCAAF 

- SLC: another huge growth area and about 500 miles to the closest existing team east or west

- 

[gordong]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

“If I want to make some money, I'll go drill another well.”  - TP

Better yet sell the sabres....nobody gives a crap about them anyway

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

I thought I was pretty upfront in saying I had no idea what the dollar figures were or would be, I just analy extracted 1.7 billion for the sake of the discussion.

 

 

You said so......yet you then just happened to pick an amount that an NFL stadium would just happen to cost----then built your conclusion around that number, as though the stadium would just be paid for as a result of this action, so a team could just move to St. Louis.

 

That's not an outcome that could be possible.  

[Gen2]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You said so......yet you then just happened to pick an amount that an NFL stadium would just happen to cost----then built your conclusion around that number, as though the stadium would just be paid for as a result of this action, so a team could just move to St. Louis.

 

That's not an outcome that could be possible.  

 

 

I didn't mean for it to sound like I was building a conclusion for what would happen, I was just presenting a discussion point for what could happen. It really doesn't matter if a settlement is arrived at 1.7 billion, or 1 billion, or 700 million, or 500 million, my premise was what if St Louis parleyed that money into partial funding for a stadium and offered the Bills some kind of sweetheart deal. Of course the premise falls apart if the courts find in favor of the NFL, or award the city "token"  damages of $1.00 which are both also possible.

[Greg S]

33 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Best choices here: 

- San Diego: a sympathy choice, and there's money to be made with an NFL team in a vacation destination

- San Antonio: big growth area, more business friendly climate than Austin, a little farther from Dallas

- OKC and or Tulsa: would slice off some of the Cowboys' base, huge football country, but may have trouble diverting attention from NCAAF 

- SLC: another huge growth area and about 500 miles to the closest existing team east or west

- 

 

Didn't the Chargers leave because there stadium was a dump and they couldn't get a new one built. I can't see that being an option. Plus the fanbase in SD wasn't all that great. It was better than LA is but still not that great.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

I didn't mean for it to sound like I was building a conclusion for what would happen, I was just presenting a discussion point for what could happen. It really doesn't matter if a settlement is arrived at 1.7 billion, or 1 billion, or 700 million, or 500 million, my premise was what if St Louis parleyed that money into partial funding for a stadium and offered the Bills some kind of sweetheart deal. Of course the premise falls apart if the courts find in favor of the NFL, or award the city "token"  damages of $1.00 which are both also possible.

 

 

Some guy said that St. Louis would never get another team.

 

So you said:

 

"That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement....right after he logically concluded  they would never get another team--and why.

 

Then you said (irony alert!!):

 

 

"Let's paint a picture here;"  

 

" let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move?"

 

The Bills are already going to get at least 500 mil from the govt in NY. 

 

And to answer your last question there...that's easy--more than 8 owners voting "no". 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you google the Top 50 Metro areas in the United States, the WNY area comes in at #49.

Here's the list in descending order of population that do not have an NFL Team:

 

13 Riverside/San Bernardino

17 San Diego

22 Orlando

24 San Antonio

28 Austin

32 Columbus

35 San Jose

37 Virginia Beach

38 Providence

40 Milwaukee

41 Oklahoma City

44 Richmond

47 Salt Lake City

48 Hartford

 

I do not think it is reasonable to say that San Jose does not have a team. Look at where the 49ers actually play. And can you really say Milwaukee does not have a team?

 

Several of the metros above that are problematic for team proximity as well. Once you get into the 40s the improvement above WNY is not that great.

 

The biggest contenders still seem like San Diego, San Antonio, and Orlando. Note than San Antonio can pull from Austin or vice versa.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

4 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Best choices here: 

- San Diego: a sympathy choice, and there's money to be made with an NFL team in a vacation destination

- San Antonio: big growth area, more business friendly climate than Austin, a little farther from Dallas

- OKC and or Tulsa: would slice off some of the Cowboys' base, huge football country, but may have trouble diverting attention from NCAAF 

- SLC: another huge growth area and about 500 miles to the closest existing team east or west

- 

 

Which ever city it is needs to make an offer significantly better than what can be gotten from NY. San Diego previously rejected a $1.15B subsidy and offered a $375M package before the Chargers left. Now that they are already living without a team, will they actually go much higher on the package? Granted, it is several years later but my guess is they will not be that willing to lay out cash at this point. So despite the extra money that can be garnered from SD, that has to be weighed against very high upfront costs to relocate there.

[RiotAct]

50 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

I do not think it is reasonable to say that San Jose does not have a team. Look at where the 49ers actually play. And can you really say Milwaukee does not have a team?

 

Several of the metros above that are problematic for team proximity as well. Once you get into the 40s the improvement above WNY is not that great.

 

The biggest contenders still seem like San Diego, San Antonio, and Orlando. Note than San Antonio can pull from Austin or vice versa.

plus Providence and Hartford are Cheaters territory.

[BigDingus]

The simple solution is for Buffalo to just double or triple in size...

 

More people = more tax revenue = easier stadium funding = more money for the Bills.

 

Just force all your family, friends & loved ones to relocate en masse to Buffalo, at gunpoint if you have to. And if that doesn't double the city's size, we just start taking in refugees from every war-torn country. Easy peasy! 

[TXBILLSFAN]

17 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Buffalo as football market includes southern Ontario and WNY over to Syracuse which needs to be factored in.  There are some cities that are bigger but as football markets few make any real sense.  

 

See above.

 

Most of the market's on So Cal Deek's list all have additional population centers from which they would draw, similar to Buffalo.  For instance, San Antonio metro is 2.5M, but, Austin is about hour and 20 minute drive (similar to Rochester to Buffalo) and Austin metro is about 2.5M.

 

Population is one measure, but, economic health is the truer measure to support PSL's and suites.  That is where the real issue resides with Buffalo.  Attendance has never been an issue in Buffalo (which has the lowest seat prices), but, suite sales have always lagged.  

 

Buffalo is at a significant disadvantage when we start talking about the heart of the issue, MONEY !!

 

Like I said, ALL of us should support and encourage NY state and local politicians to invest in the Bills and help fund and support a new stadium.

 

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

24 minutes ago, TXBILLSFAN said:

 

Most of the market's on So Cal Deek's list all have additional population centers from which they would draw, similar to Buffalo.  For instance, San Antonio metro is 2.5M, but, Austin is about hour and 20 minute drive (similar to Rochester to Buffalo) and Austin metro is about 2.5M.

 

Population is one measure, but, economic health is the truer measure to support PSL's and suites.  That is where the real issue resides with Buffalo.  Attendance has never been an issue in Buffalo (which has the lowest seat prices), but, suite sales have always lagged.  

 

Buffalo is at a significant disadvantage when we start talking about the heart of the issue, MONEY !!

 

Like I said, ALL of us should support and encourage NY state and local politicians to invest in the Bills and help fund and support a new stadium.

 

 

 

 

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

[TXBILLSFAN]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

 

In my first post I said I didn't think another team in Texas would happen, but, Jerry is only one owner.  But, let's set aside that potential threat.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP

 

Metro areas by GDP

Orlando, Portland, St Louis and San Diego are all in the Top 30.

Buffalo isn't in the Top 50 !

 

Buffalo doesn't have the money to compete, we need the state and local politicians to understand and appreciate this fact and provide partial funding for a new stadium so the team does not move.  Public funding and tax breaks for NY area stadium / arenas:

Yankee stadium, $1.2B

Mets stadium, $600M

Barclays, $500M

etc,

 

Don't let politicians fool you, they have the money, it's time for Buffalo to get their share !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

48 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

 

@Jauronimoother than being a Dick Jauron disciple you appear to be a very intelligent poster.

Austin was a completely BS by the Albany writer who does not cover NFL.

He had his article revived multiple times since publication removing many things told to him by his source.

His source, if he had one, was not involved in NFL.  Based on his job it was likely someone in NY legislature or a lobbyist probably from downstate.

Clickbait sites like PFF and ran speculative articles; some professional writers (professional in terms of being paid not quality) like ESPN writer Seth Wickersham ran with it.

Austin was not a potential site and never has Austin even looked for an expansion team.

[PromoTheRobot]

I seem to recall the architectural firm Populous being mentioned with this project. Here's a page highlighting some of their recent stadium designs. The Totenham Hotspur stadium looks like what is being discussed for Buffalo. 60K, open air, covered stands.

 

https://populous.com/our-projects/stadium-experience

 

[Patience]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I seem to recall the architectural firm Populous being mentioned with this project. Here's a page highlighting some of their recent stadium designs. The Totenham Hotspur stadium looks like what is being discussed for Buffalo. 60K, open air, covered stands.

 

https://populous.com/our-projects/stadium-experience

 

 

Good find!  Although I do have preferences, at the end of the day, I don't much care how the stadium ends up looking.  But, I'd be pretty happy with something close to that picture.  

[SirAndrew]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:24 AM, Jauronimo said:

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

College football really is the greatest hurdle in every potential NFL market. I don’t think many of us Bills fans fully realize the reach of college football, especially those of us who still live up north. Attending a college game is a more enjoyable experience for the average American. Buffalo has one of the few college like atmospheres on game day in the NFL, but other NFL experiences are vastly different. People in a place like Oklahoma City are going to enjoy attending a Sooners game more than an NFL game. Throw tradition in the mix, and the NFL franchise becomes an afterthought. Americans are attached to their favorite college teams in much the same way as WNYer’s are attached to the Billls. It’s passed down from generation to generation, and no fancy NFL stadium is taking that away. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

College football really is the greatest hurdle in every potential NFL market. I don’t think many of us Bills fans fully realize the reach of college football, especially those of us who still live up north. Attending a college game is a more enjoyable experience for the average American. Buffalo has one of the few college like atmospheres on game day in the NFL, but other NFL experiences are vastly different. People in a place like Oklahoma City are going to enjoy attending a Sooners game more than an NFL game. Throw tradition in the mix, and the NFL franchise becomes an afterthought. Americans are attached to their favorite college teams in much the same way as WNYer’s are attached to the Billls. It’s passed down from generation to generation, and no fancy NFL stadium is taking that away. 

Yup.  Maybe its similar with some of the great Big 10 teams up north but here in Texas, I ask my colleagues what would they rather have:

 

The next 10 Saints/Texans/Cowboys Super Bowls or just 1 NCAA title for their Aggies/Longhorns/LSU Tigers/Horned Frogs and they don't even need to think about it.  I know its the same in Georgia and Florida.  In terms of importance:

 

1. College Football

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15. NFL

[Doc]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I seem to recall the architectural firm Populous being mentioned with this project. Here's a page highlighting some of their recent stadium designs. The Totenham Hotspur stadium looks like what is being discussed for Buffalo. 60K, open air, covered stands.

 

https://populous.com/our-projects/stadium-experience

 

 

 

Makes sense since (I just learned looking at the link that) they were involved in the renovations to The Ralph and ADPRO since 2013.

[Mr. WEO]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:40 AM, TXBILLSFAN said:

 

 

 

Don't let politicians fool you, they have the money, it's time for Buffalo to get their share !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They did:

 

https://nypost.com/2018/07/13/cuomos-buffalo-billion-was-beyond-corrupt/