Hypothetical: Do the Bills win if we give Singletary 25 carries?

[BillMafia716ix]

The don’t use Singletary enough. They never allow him to get into any kind of rhythm. People say “well he only had 22 yards on 7 carries.” Well that’s because when the Bills do actually run the ball..they make it so obvious that they’re running it. For example 9/10 when Josh is under center it’s a run play. Daboll has no interest in establishing a run game. That’s why Moss was inactive 

Bills need to find other alternatives to win games besides relying on Josh’s arm. For example when we lost to Kansas City at home last season, Mahomes didn’t have the best game but Clyde Edwards killed us. Singletary could play a similar role for us if Daboll gives him a chance

 

[DrPJax]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:49 PM, TheFunPolice said:

I might be crazy, but I really like Singletary.

 

I think he's noticeably faster this year and he was great his rookie season.

 

Do we run screens? Draws? KC runs quite a bit for a team that seems all about Mahomes. I would like to see a bit more balance and some creativity. 

I’m sorry , I like motor as s second or third back.  He does not beak enough tackles in the NFL.  Motor still has a ball security issue. He was lucky he fumbled twice OOB. If not he would have been benched and not seen the field with Moss returning except sparingly.  Do you really need to ask aboit screens?   They don’t and can’t trust him to reliably, consistently catch the ball.    He will probably catch 60-75% which is not good coming out of the backfield as a possible hot route or drop off option.  He has a bad habit of Looking to run before securing the catch.   I was hoping Beane hit on a sleeper, but motor is on a very short leash imho.   He flashes at times, but we can’t depend on him in short yardage and goal line situations.  There are too many rbs out there ( see the ravens who lost their top 3 backs and still had rushing TDs this week!) and I think If he continues ball security issues and so-so hands , I think his career may be NFL!   Hopefully it was just because of Dabolls bad o scheme or ability to adjust after Pitt had answers to the passing attack.  But after watching The Bills since ‘65 and he just does not look like a special back to me at this point.  We need s reliable weapon out of the backfield imho to beat teams like KC , the Bucs and to advance to the SB.  Why they had him out on the sideline as a wr is a mystery to me unless it’s just to draw a lb out of the box, but Motor is not a threat out there at this point.   Maybe he needs work or reps.   😉

[T master]

On 9/13/2021 at 10:09 AM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

 

 

When it's working i say go for it until they change their focus on trying to stop that then go for the passing game but first you have to be willing to see what is working rather than sticking with a game plan that isn't working as well .

 

The Bills have all they need to defeat any opponent they meet they just have to utilize it all in order to get the W even if that means changing the original game plan from pass to run in order to dictate the game to that weeks opponent ...

[Orlando Tim]

Singletary this past week was a very effective weapon and Daboll used him poorly. I don't think most teams will play defense like that this year but when they do we must use him better 

[Solomon Grundy]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:13 AM, MAJBobby said:

You can take Josh's 9 runs and hand them to Singletary that is fine.  I hate the designed Runs, except the QB sneaks.  Thats fine.  But I also do not want to RUN more

This sounds like SB XXV Marv Levy. 

They all need to practice their ball security

8 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

The don’t use Singletary enough. They never allow him to get into any kind of rhythm. People say “well he only had 22 yards on 7 carries.” Well that’s because when the Bills do actually run the ball..they make it so obvious that they’re running it. For example 9/10 when Josh is under center it’s a run play. Daboll has no interest in establishing a run game. That’s why Moss was inactive 

Bills need to find other alternatives to win games besides relying on Josh’s arm. For example when we lost to Kansas City at home last season, Mahomes didn’t have the best game but Clyde Edwards killed us. Singletary could play a similar role for us if Daboll gives him a chance

 

Steelers game would’ve been a great week for Moss to have played

[Thurman#1]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:09 AM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

 

 

Quick question ... how many people run 25 times a game consistently. Answer: nobody.

 

Nobody runs 25 times regularly. Last year's carries leader was Derrick Henry with 23.15. And he had more than 60 carries more than the next hardest-worked RB. You're living in the '70s. Alright, it happened more recently than that, but that's not how things go today.

 

If you're asking whether we win last week if we run him that much, no, I don't think so, but it would have helped. Would've opened up the play action game too, though they did much less play action this week than they averaged last year, according to Joe B.

 

We had some terrific games last year throwing without establishing the run. I'd like to have seen them do that against the Steelers, but I don't think that alone would have made the difference.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[loyal2dagame]

With the way the oline played,  i don't think more rushing attempts change anything. 

The blocked punt was the dagger. 

[TBBills]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:09 AM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

His average would go down. It is sustainable just had a bad game. It's been proven sustainable by many teams not just the Bills.

Edited September 15, 2021 by TBBills

[thenorthremembers]

No, running more would have helped.  However, running the ball more doesn't keep the punt from being blocked, or complete the pass to Sanders for the touchdown.

 

Running the ball more only wins you the game if the outcome was based on the need to keep their offense off of the field.  The Bills lost because of a blocked punt, missed touchdown pass, and a bad call on 4th and 1. 

[TBBills]

The funny part of this is no one questioned the Bills last year when Josh had an identical game against the Steelers. Only difference is our pick 6 was there blocked punt for TD.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, DrPJax said:

I’m sorry , I like motor as s second or third back.  He does not beak enough tackles in the NFL.  Motor still has a ball security issue. He was lucky he fumbled twice OOB. If not he would have been benched and not seen the field with Moss returning except sparingly.  Do you really need to ask aboit screens?   They don’t and can’t trust him to reliably, consistently catch the ball.    He will probably catch 60-75% which is not good coming out of the backfield as a possible hot route or drop off option.  He has a bad habit of Looking to run before securing the catch.   I was hoping Beane hit on a sleeper, but motor is on a very short leash imho.   He flashes at times, but we can’t depend on him in short yardage and goal line situations.  There are too many rbs out there ( see the ravens who lost their top 3 backs and still had rushing TDs this week!) and I think If he continues ball security issues and so-so hands , I think his career may be NFL!   Hopefully it was just because of Dabolls bad o scheme or ability to adjust after Pitt had answers to the passing attack.  But after watching The Bills since ‘65 and he just does not look like a special back to me at this point.  We need s reliable weapon out of the backfield imho to beat teams like KC , the Bucs and to advance to the SB.  Why they had him out on the sideline as a wr is a mystery to me unless it’s just to draw a lb out of the box, but Motor is not a threat out there at this point.   Maybe he needs work or reps.   😉

 

 

Singletary's a very good back. Not a bell cow, but he can be a #1 back, which is why he is one and why he was one his rookie year as well.

 

And you're exaggerating about his catch percentage. His two seasons he's never averaged below 70%. Totalled around 72.9, and improved last year to 76%. Daying he will probably catch 60 - 75% is misleading. It's true, but actually he will probably catch 70 - 75%, which isn't awful, though it's not great either.

 

If he wasn't a threat he wouldn't have killed them on those two runs late, and he wouldn't have averaged 6.5 YPC, and he wouldn't be averaging 4.8 YPC for his career.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Buffalo Junction]

On 9/13/2021 at 1:21 PM, FilthyBeast said:

Unless you are the Tom Brady era Pats, you win in this league with balance.

 

And this is the problem, since Daboll was around for a large chunk of those Brady SB era teams in New England, he's trying to run the same type of offense in Buffalo not understanding that Allen is not Brady and this defense isn't Belichik's.

 

So yes we really need to trying running the ball a little more especially against Miami since they have the ability to what the Steelers did on defense in some matchups/cases.

Big difference between the two isn’t Brady. It’s that if the Pats came out and the safeties and LBers aren’t biting on playaction McDaniels will go run heavy until the defense sells out to stop it. Of course NE always had the Oline to do that, so…. 🤷‍♂️ 

[BarleyNY]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:09 AM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

Not that I am against running the ball

more, but it is doubtful that it would have changed the outcome of the game.  The ypc was high because Pittsburgh was not focusing on stopping it.  They would’ve adjusted if we had run more.  

[PolishDave]

I don't know if we would have won rushing the ball more.

 

But I do know it would have been fun in the first half to just run the ball straight at Heyward every play and lead block with 2 additional guys every play just so we could pancake him, drive him into the ground, step on him and make him never want to play against Buffalo again.  That kind of misery.

 

Then maybe go back to 5 wide. 😁

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:16 AM, dorquemada said:

Most of his yards were in garbage time.  I expect if we went in run heavy, Pitt would have adjusted and stopped us there.  We're not a good running team, probably the best we can do there is the occasional run to keep Ds honest.  We have to get faster at executing regardless of run or pass though, every play yesterday just looked lethargic.  The scheme worked against us.  The only good plays were a result of amazing individual effort versus good design.

 

 

 

20-10 with 10 minutes left isn't garbage time to me.  He had 7 carries into the 4th quarter, and Breida had 2.  

 

51 pass attempts, 3 sacks, I think 1 of the runs was a scramble.  so actually 55 pass plays vs 24 run plays.  So about 70/30 pass run split, and 33% of the runs were designed QB draws.  

 

20 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Not that I am against running the ball

more, but it is doubtful that it would have changed the outcome of the game.  The ypc was high because Pittsburgh was not focusing on stopping it.  They would’ve adjusted if we had run more.  

 

That adjustment can help open up things though.  If they're bringing LB's and S's closer to the LOS, you can create space behind them.  I think we were shocked with how much zone they ran, and how much pressure they got simply with their front 4.  This team blitzed and manned up a year ago, and we came in with a game plan of spreading them out to create mismatches.  Instead they sat in zones and tackled really well.

 

Pittsburgh blitzed once, and pressured allen 20 times.  There were some screen calls, but not enough imo - I know allen missed beasely on the one, but I'd have liked to see more here.  Buffalo ran 8 PA plays total in the game.  Play action can create space in the zones.  Missed opportunity there as well. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by dneveu

[dorquemada]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

20-10 with 10 minutes left isn't garbage time to me.  He had 7 carries into the 4th quarter, and Breida had 2.  

 

...

 

the way the Bills were playing, both on O and D, and our inability to stop the Pitt O, 10 minutes left was garbage time.  The longer that game went, the worse the outcome would have been.  I can only imagine the type of zany plays Dogballs would have called if they had another quarter

[JohnNord]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:09 AM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

He averaged 6.5 yards on 11 carries. How much does another 14 carries change the game? 
 

Personally, Josh throwing 51 times isn’t sustainable, and we did him zero favors by not establishing the run. 

25 carries is too high but a few more draws against a light box could’ve been successful

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

the way the Bills were playing, both on O and D, and our inability to stop the Pitt O, 10 minutes left was garbage time.  The longer that game went, the worse the outcome would have been.  I can only imagine the type of zany plays Dogballs would have called if they had another quarter

 

Just saying - even kicking, it became a 1 score game. 

 

Garbage time implies there is no way they come back.  It was a 2 score game with 9 minutes left - they scored on the drive.  If they got the ball back they can tie the game.  Nothing that happened on preceding drives should have any bearing on the remainder of the game.  All it takes is one mistake, one player making a play etc. and its a tie game.  

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

25 carries is too high but a few more draws against a light box could’ve been successful

 

I'm open to whatever, Daboll says he calls the game based on the opponent.  They were sitting in zone, get moving running into it until they adjust.  Instead we have our linemen pass block on 8 QB draws.  I feel like some of the other runs were trap runs as well, there wasn't anything power or inside/outside zone.  

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Just saying - even kicking, it became a 1 score game. 

 

Garbage time implies there is no way they come back.  It was a 2 score game with 9 minutes left - they scored on the drive.  If they got the ball back they can tie the game.  Nothing that happened on preceding drives should have any bearing on the remainder of the game.  All it takes is one mistake, one player making a play etc. and its a tie game.  

 

...

 

You're correct on a technical level that it wasn't garbage time.  However, if you were watching the game, you had to know it was over.  Nothing in the 2nd half of the Bills performance gave any indication that they had it in them to take control and force the game in their own favor.  Pitt was moving the ball at will, and we were busy calling plays like an 8 year old with his first copy of Madden

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

You're correct on a technical level that it wasn't garbage time.  However, if you were watching the game, you had to know it was over.  Nothing in the 2nd half of the Bills performance gave any indication that they had it in them to take control and force the game in their own favor.  Pitt was moving the ball at will, and we were busy calling plays like an 8 year old with his first copy of Madden

 

I watched the game.  I didn't feel the team was capable, but that doesn't mean its over man. I've played football, crazy stuff happens all the time.  They weren't in some crazy prevent defense, they didn't try and run the clock out with a 2 score lead or something on their last possession.  It was very much still a game.