Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 3

[GunnerBill]

So the final pre-season game of 2021 is in the books. The Bills went 3-0 to follow 4-0 in 2019 and are now unbeaten in 8 pre-season outings. That usually speaks pretty directly to depth on the roster and there is no doubting this Bills roster is deep, although I think if anything things may have simplified and crystalized a little for Beane and co. last night. So with no further ado...

 

Good Night for...

 

Josh Allen and his starting receivers - I won't labour too long on this and it barely needs mentioning but in his first action of pre-season Allen was on point throwing two absolute bullet touchdowns. The first - to Gabriel Davis on third and long - was a throw only 3 or 4 Quarterbacks in the entire league can make and the second was the definition of tight window to Zack Moss. It was the first pre-season action for Cole Beasley and Emmanuel Sanders too and they had 4 grabs a piece while Davis (who has played in some of the earlier games) had 5 for 75 yards and that score. There were no discernable signs of rust here. Allen and his pass catchers are ready for week 1. 

 

Matt Breida - I liked the low risk pickup of Breida in the offseason but it is fair to say he hasn't exactly popped in the first two pre-season games where they have used him more in a conventional running back mode. Last night he was used in the Isaiah McKenzie role, taking a sweep 16 yards on his only carry and catching a bubble screen too. I wasn't totally sold that he was safe but given McKenzie is nicked up and his ability to give the Bills an option in that package I suspect he is now pretty secure on the 53 as an emergency conventional running back who can also backup McKenzie's gimmick role. 

 

Siran Neal - Not that Siran Neal's roster spot was in any doubt but he had a really good night, he was active and around the football as the starting nickel, had a big tackle on special teams and played some safety in the second half. For those bottom of the roster guys being able to help in multiple ways is always big and Neal again proved his worth. 

 

Damar Hamlin - Talking of backup safeties.... I think Damar Hamlin secured a roster spot last night. He has been battling with Josh Thomas for the 4th safety spot all summer and last night I thought he separated himself. He had a nice pass breakup and he flashed on special teams too. I suspect when you add that to the fact that Thomas is likely the easier one to sneak through to the practice squad the signs point towards Hamlin being on the 53. 

 

Jake Fromm - I think some readers of my previous good night / bad night columns will believe that I am anti-Jake Fromm and nothing could be further from the truth. I still think there were throws last night where the ball hangs in the air because he doesn't generate the requisite velocity and where in regular season play the risk of interceptions would be high. However, this was a nice outing from the former Georgia Quarterback that likely guarantees he is still in the league this year as at least a practice squad guy and possibly even sneaking onto a roster for a team that wants to carry 3 guys. His touchdown run was a cool moment for him. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Cam Lewis - I think Cam Lewis was the one guy who I had on the outside looking in but with a real chance of forcing his way onto the 53 last night. With Dane Jackson and Levi Wallace out and a question about corner depth he got the start opposite Tre White but missed his opportunity. He had a couple of mental errors in coverage that allowed completions and while he was by no means a disaster when McDermott and Beane sit down to go through that film he isn't gonna jump out as a guy they simply can't live without. There might still be a route for him depending on what happens with Jaquan Johnson who has missed the last two games injured. He could be a candidate for IR after the 53 is announced after which they bring back either Lewis (and use Neal as safety depth for the first few weeks) or Josh Thomas. 

 

Cody Ford - Ford, Feliciano and Boettger have been rotating in the guard spots this pre-season. Last night Ford got the start at RG with Feliciano at LG but he did not have a good first drive allowing two pressures - one of which Allen escaped from out to his right and found Singletary for a dump off, the other led to the ball Allen threw into the dirt. He was replaced on the second drive by Boettger who then stayed in on the third drive too and I have to say he played much better. I should add it was Boettger's man who got the hit on Allen on the second touchdown throw, but otherwise he just looked calmer and more balanced in pass protection where Ford looks a bit frantic and less sure with his footwork. I think Ford has the advantage if the Bills want to be a power run team, but this is a pass first offense and as a pass protector.... Boettger is just better right now. I would not be surprised to see the former UDFA start over the former 2nd round pick in two weeks' time. 

 

Backup tackle depth - It has been a theme of the pre-season but Tommy Doyle and Bobby Hart would be liabilities starting in actual NFL games. Both got blown by multiple times and while there are excuses that can be made for Doyle "oh he is a 5th round pick and he is raw" etc the truth is if he was an UDFA nobody would have a single issue about him being on the cut list. I suspect the Bills would like to hang onto him and maybe they even find a way to fit him on the 53 but for me this is the number 1 spot where I look for them to make a move after other teams have made their cuts. 

 

Dion Dawkins - Talking of offensive tackle, and not going over the top here, but Dion doesn't look all the way back yet to me, which is understandable. He got beaten by his guy a couple of times yesterday including on the play where Allen wisely gave himself up for a sack (Daryl Williams was also beaten on the play and Josh had nowhere to go). It is not crisis time by any means but just a reminder to folks that if Dion starts this season slow we should cut him a bit of slack. He still looks short of his ideal playing weight. 

 

Long snapping - It shows where the Bills have been pre-season that I am having to talk about long snapping as a concern. Reid Ferguson having a back issue right before the season is a bit of a worry. That is not the sort of injury that just disappears quickly and it is hard to totally rest a back when long snapping is your job. It is, bizarrely, an area where the Bills miss Lee Smith who has long snapped in an NFL game before now whereas it looked like AJ Epenesa had drawn the short straw trying to do it last night. I suspect Ferguson plays next week but it is almost a guarantee now that the Bills carry a long snapper as one of their 16 practice squad guys so that they have the option of using one of those free "game day call ups" that they have in the event that Reid has a week where he just can't go. 

 

 

We are on to Pittsburgh!

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Coach Tuesday]

Agree with all of this.

 

Cody Ford is the worst pick of the Beane era by a mile when you consider the opportunity cost.  He’s just not a football player.  Total scrub.

[Rk_Bills86]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Cody Ford is the worst pick of the Beane era by a mile when you consider the opportunity cost.  He’s just not a football player.  Total scrub.

 

Not to start a debate on this - but while this might actually be true (considering pick value) - How quickly have we become spoiled that an average player is the worth pick in a 3 to 4 year span?

[machine gun kelly]

Excellent points GB.  I have not been impressed with Ford, and I’ve been giving him all the excuses of moving him around, injuries, etc.  He is healthy now (I think as I haven’t read anything) and in a dedicated Guard position, which is supposed to be his natural position.  I’m almost inclined to cut him and send a message to the team we don’t care about draft status, just how well you play, and every play counts.  Boettger and Bates look better than him.  You can always place Doyle on the PS after they cut him.

 

Finally, we use Breida the way he should be used. One Jet sweep, and two short passes.  He will be an asset on the team if he used outside.  Let Moss and Singletary handle anything related to cut back runs, and straight up interior running plays.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Dion Dawkins - Talking of offensive tackle, and not going over the top here, but Dion doesn't look all the way back yet to me, which is understandable. He got beaten by his guy a couple of times yesterday including on the play where Allen wisely gave himself up for a sack (Daryl Williams was also beaten on the play and Josh had nowhere to go). It is not crisis time by any means but just a reminder to folks that if Dion starts this season slow we should cut him a bit of slack. He still looks short of his ideal playing weight. 

 

 

 

We are on to Pittsburgh!

 

 

I think you nailed most of this - the only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that on the sack - you say both Dion and Williams were beaten, but Sal specifically mentioned on the post game - that play.  
 

The Bills went with a higher snap count and GB’s D-line moved.  Morse snapped the ball early to try and catch him off sides and no one was ready giving both DEs a huge advantage.  That decision is given to Morse to try and get a free play, but obviously the Refs did not give it to them, but I don’t think in the end that will reflect on Dion at all.

 

Eric Woods also said in the pregame that any injury/illness that you lose the kind of weight Dion lost - the trainers will get back in 3-4 weeks - they want to add it slowly.  He did not think the weight would hinder Dion much, but the stamina was going to be a huge issue - especially with Miami in week 2.

[delirious]

Add interior defensive line and linebackers to the bad night.

 

Packers 2nd string pounding the rock up the middle for chunks was very bad. The interior defensive line was getting pushed around and our linebackers couldn't get off blocks.

 

I really really really hope Beane goes after Jurrell Casey hard. I was pounding the table for him during FA, and now I'm even more entrenched.

[Ralonzo]

The Ford pick seemed to inconsistent with Beane drafting looking for elite traits on high picks and leaning on the coaching staff to form the player (Allen, Rousseau, Edmunds, Knox, Brown). Seemed like a reach at the time to move up at a position of dire need, they had the guy way up on their board apparently. I mean, he’s better than Cyrus Kouandijo at least. We all know who the “traits” guy was on the board at the time.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Ralonzo

[Dopey]

Bad: I had hope for Ford, but he's not doing good. I saw too much lunging, reaching and terrible footwork. And that's inside at guard. Right now he's a backup and not a good one.

Good: I like what our starters looked like on the dline. Back ups, not so much. Star has already made a difference. Couple of decent runs given up in the first qt with Star not in, then a GL stance with him in. 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think you nailed most of this - the only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that on the sack - you say both Dion and Williams were beaten, but Sal specifically mentioned on the post game - that play.  
 

The Bills went with a higher snap count and GB’s D-line moved.  Morse snapped the ball early to try and catch him off sides and no one was ready giving both DEs a huge advantage.  That decision is given to Morse to try and get a free play, but obviously the Refs did not give it to them, but I don’t think in the end that will reflect on Dion at all.

 

Eric Woods also said in the pregame that any injury/illness that you lose the kind of weight Dion lost - the trainers will get back in 3-4 weeks - they want to add it slowly.  He did not think the weight would hinder Dion much, but the stamina was going to be a huge issue - especially with Miami in week 2.

 

It wasn't the only play Dion was beaten on, but you are right that should have been a penalty. The Eric Wood point is exactly what I am talking about. It might be 4 or 5 weeks before we get Dion at his best. We just need to be patient with it and him at 85% is still better than anyone else playing there.

26 minutes ago, delirious said:

Add interior defensive line and linebackers to the bad night.

 

Packers 2nd string pounding the rock up the middle for chunks was very bad. The interior defensive line was getting pushed around and our linebackers couldn't get off blocks.

 

I really really really hope Beane goes after Jurrell Casey hard. I was pounding the table for him during FA, and now I'm even more entrenched.

 

You say that but Green Bay's longest run was 12 yards. The Bills are willing to give up 12 yard runs here and there at this point. They are a bend don't break defense, they keep it infront of them. They know who Ed Oliver and Tremaine Edmunds are and they knew it at draft time. They prioritise what they give you as defenders in the passing game over what they do as run defenders.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Re both Cody Ford and Doyle, you wonder if the Bills want to be more patient, given that they gave away Wyatt Teller and we all know how good he is. 
 

Ford was moved all around his first season between tackle and guard, and was injured a lot last year. Maybe he just needs more time? 

[TroutDog]

I wouldn’t hammer Beane too hard for the Ford pick: if the Bills were a run first team, the pick would be considered brilliant. Ford is a very good guard in the right O…Pittsburgh come to mind.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Re both Cody Ford and Doyle, you wonder if the Bills want to be more patient, given that they gave away Wyatt Teller and we all know how good he is. 
 

Ford was moved all around his first season between tackle and guard, and was injured a lot last year. Maybe he just needs more time? 

 

It is pretty much now or never for him I think.

[delirious]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

You say that but Green Bay's longest run was 12 yards. The Bills are willing to give up 12 yard runs here and there at this point. They are a bend don't break defense, they keep it infront of them. They know who Ed Oliver and Tremaine Edmunds are and they knew it at draft time. They prioritise what they give you as defenders in the passing game over what they do as run defenders.

 

I think our defense would have faired worse yesterday if they would have played against Greenbay's first team O.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The depth on this team overall is very impressive. I think in a few areas, we are as stacked as any team I can ever remember. Our 6th and 7th best WRs could start on a few teams. That’s inconceivable.
 

I’m slightly concerned with the depth in the secondary. I think our actual starting secondary is the best in the league, but the backups are a little concerning. At corner there will be 2 guys I feel comfortable with incase of injuries but at safety (if a starter goes down) I think we are screwed. I wouldn’t mind seeing a veteran added to the back end depth post cuts. 

 

Tight end is still a spot where we have almost nothing. If Duke Williams was smart enough to read the room, he should have spent the entire last year putting on 20/30lbs and making a position change to TE. He was never going to make this roster as a WR but if he could transfer his skill set to a bigger body and play TE, I think he could be a factor.  We seem to have a roster full of backups at TE. It’s the one blemish on this roster IMO. In this franchise’s history we have never had a legitimate top tier TE. It’s not a post to start another Ertz thread but he certainly could have taken this one roster hole out of the discussion.

[RobbRiddick]

If Brieda does make it I can see some situations where Allen escapes the pocket, finds him on a dump off and he takes it 30 or 40 yards downfield on the broken play. If he does that a few times in key moments then he's  earned his roster spot for me

[TheBeaneBandit]

4 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The depth on this team overall is very impressive. I think in a few areas, we are as stacked as any team I can ever remember. Our 6th and 7th best WRs could start on a few teams. That’s inconceivable.
 

I’m slightly concerned with the depth in the secondary. I think our actual starting secondary is the best in the league, but the backups are a little concerning. At corner there will be 2 guys I feel comfortable with incase of injuries but at safety (if a starter goes down) I think we are screwed. I wouldn’t mind seeing a veteran added to the back end depth post cuts. 

 

Tight end is still a spot where we have almost nothing. If Duke Williams was smart enough to read the room, he should have spent the entire last year putting on 20/30lbs and making a position change to TE. He was never going to make this roster as a WR but if he could transfer his skill set to a bigger body and play TE, I think he could be a factor.  We seem to have a roster full of backups at TE. It’s the one blemish on this roster IMO. In this franchise’s history we have never had a legitimate top tier TE. It’s not a post to start another Ertz thread but he certainly could have taken this one roster hole out of the discussion.

Duke Williams is slow enough already. 20 to 30 pounds and the dude may barely crack running a 5.0 40 lol

[JerseyBills]

Siran Neal was everywhere! Ppl were actually saying he's a cut candidate after playing outside CB the first 2 games and not looking too hot.

He's made for the slot or even a 3rd LB role,and can play S.

He was the best defender on the field imo. I think he's going to get alot more playing time this year. 

Klein looked really good yesterday too

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, delirious said:

 

I think our defense would have faired worse yesterday if they would have played against Greenbay's first team O.

That goes without saying considering Love got his offense within the Bills 25 yard line 3x before he ran into bad luck. That doesn't happen with ARod. I think many expecting a big jump in defensive performance are going to be disappointed. They've gotten younger but not necessarily better. The pass rush is still inconsistent and they continue to run the same "bend not break" scheme. I don't see this unit keeping us in games on days the offense isn't clicking. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by billsbackto81

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Cody Ford - Ford, Feliciano and Boettger have been rotating in the guard spots this pre-season. Last night Ford got the start at RG with Feliciano at LG but he did not have a good first drive allowing two pressures - one of which Allen escaped from out to his right and found Singletary for a dump off, the other led to the ball Allen threw into the dirt. He was replaced on the second drive by Boettger who then stayed in on the third drive too and I have to say he played much better. I should add it was Boettger's man who got the hit on Allen on the second touchdown throw, but otherwise he just looked calmer and more balanced in pass protection where Ford looks a bit frantic and less sure with his footwork. I think Ford has the advantage if the Bills want to be a power run team, but this is a pass first offense and as a pass protector.... Boettger is just better right now. I would not be surprised to see the former UDFA start over the former 2nd round pick in two weeks' time. 

 

Backup tackle depth - It has been a theme of the pre-season but Tommy Doyle and Bobby Hart would be liabilities starting in actual NFL games. Both got blown by multiple times and while there are excuses that can be made for Doyle "oh he is a 5th round pick and he is raw" etc the truth is if he was an UDFA nobody would have a single issue about him being on the cut list. I suspect the Bills would like to hang onto him and maybe they even find a way to fit him on the 53 but for me this is the number 1 spot where I look for them to make a move after other teams have made their cuts. 

 

 

It was also a Good Night for... backup LBs but not noticed as much since people were used to it from previous game.  Nice goal line stance.

 

And Bills should at this point me looking as Cody Ford as backup OL except center since he can play either guard or tackle position when REALLY necessary.

And I agree he is better as a run blocker so maybe on goal line stances substitute him or use him as extra blocker.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

It was also a Good Night for... backup LBs but not noticed as much since people were used to it from previous game.  Nice goal line stance.

 

And Bills should at this point me looking as Cody Ford as backup OL except center since he can play either guard or tackle position when REALLY necessary.

And I agree he is better as a run blocker so maybe on goal line stances substitute him or use him as extra blocker.

 

Yea thought Andre Smith was good again. I am pretty sure that group is settled. Edmunds, Milano, Klein, Smith and Matakevich. They will also hope to sneak Dodson and Giles-Harris onto the PS and just carry 5 on the active roster to allow them to keep Bam Johnson.