Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[HappyDays]

17 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

That’s a lot of faith in a couple late round picks as depth for a team with SB aspirations. 

 

Every team in the league is worried about their depth somewhere. Any team that loses their Tre'Davious White would be in trouble. Look at what the Chiefs WRs would look like if Hill got injured. Or the 49ers if Nick Bosa goes down (again). There's no use worrying about what happens if a star player is lost to injury. Like every other team we'd have to scheme around it and hope for the rest.

[akcash]

CODY FORD HAD A STRONG NIGHT.

 

DUDE LOOKED LIKE SUPER CODY FORD.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Phillips play looked to be at the level he was approaching pre-injury last night to me. Looked very stout vs. the run and got upfield some even. Guess I saw it differently.

 

 

He had some good plays but was inconsistent.   Unfortunately, I'd say more down in the run game.    He's in a bit of a spot with the McBeane darling Star Lotulelei back.........they really don't need two 1 techs who are useless in pass rush like Star..........they need one who is more versatile,  but they gotta' be strong against the run as well.  

 

Phillips definitely looked better at getting into the backfield than in run defense Friday night.

 

Been a bit of a mixed message about the 1 techs since the beginning of last season.    Last year they rolled with the recuperating Phillips and a bunch of 3 techs/penetrators and didn't even try to address the position with a plugger.   They actually sought out even smaller and more active DT's like Zimmer.

 

Now the Polynesian Pylon is back and they are going to dedicate a position to a guy who can't get off the LOS again so what's the philosophy going to be about DT1T2?   

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He had some good plays but was inconsistent.   Unfortunately, I'd say more down in the run game.    He's in a bit of a spot with the McBeane darling Star Lotulelei back.........they really don't need two 1 techs who are useless in pass rush like Star..........they need one who is more versatile,  but they gotta' be strong against the run as well.  

 

Phillips definitely looked better at getting into the backfield than in run defense Friday night.

 

Been a bit of a mixed message about the 1 techs since the beginning of last season.    Last year they rolled with the recuperating Phillips and a bunch of 3 techs/penetrators and didn't even try to address the position with a plugger.   They actually sought out even smaller and more active DT's like Zimmer.

 

Now the Polynesian Pylon is back and they are going to dedicate a position to a guy who can't get off the LOS again so what's the philosophy going to be about DT1T2?   

Showcasing him for a trade.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Every team in the league is worried about their depth somewhere. Any team that loses their Tre'Davious White would be in trouble. Look at what the Chiefs WRs would look like if Hill got injured. Or the 49ers if Nick Bosa goes down (again). There's no use worrying about what happens if a star player is lost to injury. Like every other team we'd have to scheme around it and hope for the rest.

 

That's too simplistic.

 

The Bills depth at reserve LT(Nsekhe) and CB(Norman)........key positions.........was better last summer at this time.

 

Last season the Bills only real depth concern was DT.........which isn't an island/edge position so it's a lot easier to cover up vulnerabilities there.

 

You can't have DE's and OLB running free at the QB........can't have WR's scorching CB's over the top..........hence the concern level.

 

Personally,  I'd like to see Ryan Bates start splitting snaps with Spencer Brown at LT in some of these games..............Bates has got to be their best reserve LT option at the moment.  

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

22 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Fromm is the Nathan Peterman of Matt Barkleys. Doesn’t have NFL tools. Liked what I saw from Webb as QB3 on PS. 
 

Very impressed by Rousseau.
We need veteran OT depth bad.

TEs all looked decent.

As did most LBs.

Speedy needs to stay but hard to find a spot for him.

Nice S depth too. 

Motor added a cylinder. 
Haack is going to help. 
Spencer raw but great prospect. 

 

 

Fromm is Barkley-like in the fact that despite having weaker arms they both have very good touch on deep throws.  They really excelled at that in college and saw it from Fromm on 4th down Friday night.  But they don't have the easy velocity to make so many of the tight window throws.   After seeing Tom Brady improve his arm strength I don't think we can say that a better athlete like Fromm couldn't improve his arm strength but he's limited right now.

[K-9]

11 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

They spent a lot of time game-planning in that game but the game-planning is different than in regular season games.

They wanted to test players with live opponents to see how would they react and whether they put to use what they have gone over in camp including corrections.  In order to do that they need to game plan to get as many possible plays.  It is like a scrimmage except you do not do the planning with opponent.

 

There will be a number of players doing corrections especially on items flagged.

 

Did anyone see any referees in training camp videos?  I haven't and I have been looking for them.

When a good percentage of referees were made fulltime part of the justification was they were going to help teach during training camp but they got a hall pass with COVID last year.

Perhaps we have different ideas of game planning and what it entails for a pre vs. regular season game. I’ll just say I can’t call having a plan for what you want to accomplish in a meaningless game even remotely resembles game planning and leave it at that. 

[Green Lightning]

11 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Webb has a strong arm actually.

Not much evidence of that Friday.  He seems to have an aversion to stepping up in the pocket as well. I have him ranked as serviceable on a pinch.

[Old Coot]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:43 AM, GunnerBill said:

Devin Singletary - I have been critical of Singletary in the past but he has said publicly that his work this offseason has been on being more decisive at the line and we definitely saw that in his performance last night. No, the run blocking in 2020 was not very good, but too often Devin would be wiggling behind the line for no gain instead of hitting the hole that was there and taking the two or three yards on offer. Last night he was going north and south and then showing the wiggle at the second level to break the bigger runs. That is exactly what he needs to do. With Zack Moss nursing a hamstring Devin took his chance to put the first marker down in the battle to start at tailback. 

 

Overall a good writeup.  I have a question about the run blocking scheme against Detroit.  Was it zone or power.  I think power because, as you, say, Devin hit the hole quickly.  In a zone scheme the RB takes the hole that develops.

[Rochesterfan]

On 8/14/2021 at 11:22 AM, pennstate10 said:

I thought the officiating was pretty marginal. The roughing and one helmet to helmet call have already been discussed. 
 

But in the first half, official throws a flag against Bills D. After long discussion, referree says 36 called for illegal contact prior to QB leaving the pocket. Here is a photo of official throwing the flag. I rewatched the play several times to make sure I had this right. When the flag is thrown (at the sideline), lions QB has taken 17 steps outside of the pocket. 
 

Im pretty sure that the discussion amongst the officials was “are you sure this happened while the QB was in the pocket”. And stubborn official says “yup, that’s what I saw”. 
 

BS. Send this guy back to the MAC. 

 

Totally agree with the premise of - that image being when he threw the flag.

 

I am not sure I agree that this was when he saw the penalty.  It looked like to me - he tried to grab the flag earlier and then the play sorta came at him and he moved his position and then finally threw the flag.

 

I watched several times and have not seen an angle showing exactly when the first contact occurred that was flagged - so I can’t say it was a bogus call or not.  
 

I think people get influenced by when the flag is thrown and think that is the exact moment of the penalty, but these guys are watching many things and may see something, but then the play starts moving and they can’t get the flag at that moment.

 

Overall - I won’t kill the officials - there were several borderline calls, but both Roughing calls on he QB were correct calls. Both of the lowering the helmet calls (1 on each team) were marginal, but as a point of emphasis- not surprising.  Much like some of the weak taunting calls in other games.  The holding especially early seemed legitimate on Hart.  I thought they did an adequate job calling the game.

[Rochesterfan]

21 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

They spent a lot of time game-planning in that game but the game-planning is different than in regular season games.

They wanted to test players with live opponents to see how would they react and whether they put to use what they have gone over in camp including corrections.  In order to do that they need to game plan to get as many possible plays.  It is like a scrimmage except you do not do the planning with opponent.

 

There will be a number of players doing corrections especially on items flagged.

 

Did anyone see any referees in training camp videos?  I haven't and I have been looking for them.

When a good percentage of referees were made fulltime part of the justification was they were going to help teach during training camp but they got a hall pass with COVID last year.

 

The Bills had Refs in practice most of last week.  They were all over the field.

 

From listening to Sal - they will have some back again either this week or next week before the end of preseason.

[pennstate10]

I understand your point— that it may take the official a while to throw the flag. 
 

but consider the following. 
 

1). 17 steps?  That sure is a lot of time. 
 

2). There was a pretty long conference. Pretty sure that the other officials were asking him if he was absolutely sure that he saw a foul. 
 

3). OfficL who threw the flag was 98. The line judge. Why would he be looking in the defensive backfield at the beginning of the play, when qb was still in pocket?

[letsgoteam]

From what I saw with the CB depth, I would not play Levi very much the rest of the pre season, I'd hate to see him not be able to go Week 1. 

 

Agree what other people have said, Bojo was a terrible holder. He's been a liability since Day 1. When one of the Bills kickers made a bad kick, the replay always seemed to show the ball was placed awkwardly. I am so glad the Bills moved on from him. He is one of the very few, if only, players I have ever rooted for to be cut (like during the game, irrational, "CUT THAT BUM NOW" heat). 

 

 I wonder what will come of CB depth and Tackle depth. (signing/trades/etc)

[Reader]

Kind of crazy to think about what the state of the team would be if Levi didn't decide he really wanted to be back here this year. Maybe they'd draft a CB or something, but the idea of having the same team without him is not a pleasant one to think about.

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I understand your point— that it may take the official a while to throw the flag. 
 

but consider the following. 
 

1). 17 steps?  That sure is a lot of time. 
 

2). There was a pretty long conference. Pretty sure that the other officials were asking him if he was absolutely sure that he saw a foul. 
 

3). OfficL who threw the flag was 98. The line judge. Why would he be looking in the defensive backfield at the beginning of the play, when qb was still in pocket?

 

Again - I haven’t see the play from the All-22, but watching it again on YouTube the CB and WR right in front of that official just as they get to the edge of the screen - while Goff is just reaching the top of the drop - you see the WR move to the inside and the Bills CB reach out his hand as he was beat to the inside.  
 

Then they go off screen and I believe that is the call - although I do not know the number of the DB there - it did not look like 36.  I thought it was Jackson #30 and I believe the safety #46 came up to force Goff into the slide.  I did not see Josh Thomas on the field, but I could not see who the other Safety was with Johnson it could easily be Thomas, but they were off the screen from the beginning.
 

If you watch it as Goff breaks the pocket and begins lumbering toward the sidelines - the Ref already has the flag out and goes to throw it, but as Goff is running directly at him - he double clutches and then tosses it in an area not to hit anyone.  The players were running directly into the spot he was going to throw the flag.  

 

Since it was not a spot foul - he did not have to throw it where the penalty occurred.  I would assume the lengthy discussion was for the reason you described - he was not looking in the backfield - so he would need to give the timing on what he saw and someone else would need to confirm where Goff was at that point to the best of their ability to piece the entire thing together.

 

If the illegal contact was the 2 guys on the outside - starting just in front of that official as I suspect - and it was just after the WR made his inside move and the CBs arm shot out - then it occurred while Goff was in the pocket.  If it was someone else - then it is hard to say because the only other receiver in the area was covered by a LB and never went downfield.

 

 

[K-9]

6 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

I understand your point— that it may take the official a while to throw the flag. 
 

but consider the following. 
 

1). 17 steps?  That sure is a lot of time. 
 

2). There was a pretty long conference. Pretty sure that the other officials were asking him if he was absolutely sure that he saw a foul. 
 

3). OfficL who threw the flag was 98. The line judge. Why would he be looking in the defensive backfield at the beginning of the play, when qb was still in pocket?

Because that’s one of the line judge’s responsibilities on passing plays; to rule on defensive holding and illegal contact. 

[billsbackto81]

Bad Night for...

 

Cornerback depth - Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. We have a problem.

----------------------

Though many may not want to hear it, I've been saying it for awhile now. The difference between this team making the playoffs and this team hoisting a Lombardi is the cornerback depth behind Tre. We don't have enough to slow down the top passing offenses in the league.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bad Night for...

 

Cornerback depth - Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. We have a problem.

----------------------

Though many may not want to hear it, I've been saying it for awhile now. The difference between this team making the playoffs and this team hoisting a Lombardi is the cornerback depth behind Tre. We don't have enough to slow down the top passing offenses in the league.

 

Agree. Too many people have been putting too much stock in the very small sample size from Dane Jackson last season and extrapolating that out to conclude that he was going to be a key contributor.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. Too many people have been putting too much stock in the very small sample size from Dane Jackson last season and extrapolating that out to conclude that he was going to be a key contributor.

Also what got most of us excited was his awesome run stops flying up to the line...we don't actually see him in coverage unless we're watching film afterward...you do that, most do not.

[Patrick Duffy]

28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. The Dane Jackson hype reminds me of the old days when the board used to prop up the Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey rosters filled with late round picks, UDFAs and just plain average to below average players.

I don't know if I'd go that far, not for me anyways....  speaking for myself, I was simply just excited to see more of him due to last season he made some plays and showed a little promise. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins