Allen's commitment to be the best and work ethic on display again

[Victory Formation]

It’s kind of amazing how far Allen has come under the guidance of Jordan Palmer, who seemingly has a stellar reputation in the NFL as a top end QB coach. It’s kind of perplexing to me cause Palmer sucked as a player but is apparently a really great coach. I wonder why he didn’t do much as a player in the NFL? Regardless, his track record as a coach speaks for itself.

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

It’s kind of amazing how far Allen has come under the guidance of Jordan Palmer, who seemingly has a stellar reputation in the NFL as a top end QB coach. It’s kind of perplexing to me cause Palmer sucked as a player but is apparently a really great coach. I wonder why he didn’t do much as a player in the NFL? Regardless, his track record as a coach speaks for itself.

Also, look at who else is at those camps.  Imo Jordan Palmer owes more to Allen than Allen owes Palmer.  Palmer has been a good fit for sure with him.  I feel like everyone besides Allen gets the credit for becoming what he has.  He is a physical freak ar Wyoming as a Sophmore.  Add in the under recruited and constant judging of his play he has an insanse work ethic.  

[snowbelt_subie]

On 7/24/2021 at 10:07 PM, BigAl2526 said:

Sam Darnold also had the handicap of having an idiot head coach.  I don't think Darnold has had the same benefit of continuity as Josh Allen .  Josh has had Brian Daboll's offense for 3 years.  I'm not sure who Darnold's offensive coordinators have been, but he's had more than one.  In comparison to Josh Allen, I do think Sam Darnold is more laid back while Josh Allen is driven.  That may in part because Darnold was something of a "golden child" at USC and didn't to work as hard to have college success, while Josh Allen had to claw his way from high school to junior college to Wyoming.

 

if josh allen, lamar, or baker went to the Jets it would be the same result as what happened.  Lamar got a stable franchise and HC,  Baker had a clown show and finally got a grown up in stefanski and turned it around, Allen has had MR stability Mcd.

 

as much as people dont want to hear it . these Qb's are a product of their environment more than anything.

[BigAl2526]

4 hours ago, snowbelt_subie said:

 

if josh allen, lamar, or baker went to the Jets it would be the same result as what happened.  Lamar got a stable franchise and HC,  Baker had a clown show and finally got a grown up in stefanski and turned it around, Allen has had MR stability Mcd.

 

as much as people dont want to hear it . these Qb's are a product of their environment more than anything.

I agree that environment is hugely important.  I do think that Josh Allen has a higher ceiling than either Darnold or Lamar Jackson, but that is impossible to prove.  Jackson absolutely needed to be drafted by the Ravens.  John Harbaugh understood that the Ravens needed to taylor their offense, and even their offensive coaching staff to his specialized skill set.  It's hard to really judge where Darnold's ceiling might be since the Jets screwed him over with their organization's ineptitude.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 hours ago, snowbelt_subie said:

 

if josh allen, lamar, or baker went to the Jets it would be the same result as what happened.  Lamar got a stable franchise and HC,  Baker had a clown show and finally got a grown up in stefanski and turned it around, Allen has had MR stability Mcd.

 

as much as people dont want to hear it . these Qb's are a product of their environment more than anything.

 

You're wrong on Josh Allen!   If you haven't figured that out by now, don't know what to tell you.

[snowbelt_subie]

10 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

You're wrong on Josh Allen!   If you haven't figured that out by now, don't know what to tell you.

 

so you think josh allen would be a superstar with the crap weapons and adam gase?  

[Punching Bag]

23 hours ago, snowbelt_subie said:

 

if josh allen, lamar, or baker went to the Jets it would be the same result as what happened.  Lamar got a stable franchise and HC,  Baker had a clown show and finally got a grown up in stefanski and turned it around, Allen has had MR stability Mcd.

 

as much as people dont want to hear it . these Qb's are a product of their environment more than anything.

 

Alex Van Pelt should get as much credit as Stefanski.  Van Pelt was hired to help Baker transition to NFL QB.  There is a reason why Aaron Rodgers was mad when he lost him as his QB and a new OC was brought in rather than Van Pelt being promoted.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/baker-mayfield-ready-to-keep-the-chains-moving-with-alex-van-pelt

Quote

 

"Much like my relationship with Kevin, (the relationship with Van Pelt) has been growing a lot as we have gone through these weeks with everything starting virtually and just getting to be around him more," Mayfield said. "He is not that far removed from his playing days. Just a real relatable guy. Very understanding. The open communication is pretty essential to what has been our success so far. AVP is just like that. He wants to talk through it and hear our thoughts as well."

 

Besides maybe a slight change in tone from what he normally hears through his helmet Sunday, Mayfield doesn't expect to hear anything unexpected or different with Van Pelt on the headset. The two have worked closely since the spring on technique, play designs and understanding the playbook. 

 

Stefanski has always been with them in the discussions, too, and after four months and 16 games of showing off their work, Van Pelt and Mayfield feel more than comfortable with operating through a game together. The preparation leading up to the game will stay similar as it would for any other game — Stefanski can still coach from a virtual setting until kickoff Sunday — and the offense won't have to change anything even though their coach won't be on the sidelines.

 

"That line of communication has always been open between the three of us," Mayfield said. "Obviously, there are going to be a few little different nuances with AVP calling it, but Kevin and him are still talking and we are all still having those conversations throughout the week, just like a normal game plan week would go."

 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

9 hours ago, snowbelt_subie said:

 

so you think josh allen would be a superstar with the crap weapons and adam gase?  

 

Not necessarily; but I don't think he would have flamed out like Darnold as you seem to insinuate because of his natural talent, desire, etc that we all love about him. 

[Punching Bag]

50 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Not necessarily; but I don't think he would have flamed out like Darnold as you seem to insinuate because of his natural talent, desire, etc that we all love about him. 

 

Darnold doesn't have ability to make plays out of broken ones like Allen.  Some QBs are actually BETTER on broken plays like Allen and like Flutie ws.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Limeaid
typo

[snowbelt_subie]

On 7/23/2021 at 12:26 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

Contrast this with Baker Mayfields' attitude. Remember the end of season press conference in 2019 when asked by the press if he was going to hire a private QB tutor after his lackluster sophomore season, he answered that he wouldn't;

“I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,” Mayfield said. “I can look at film and be critical of myself."

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/27/baker-mayfield-says-hell-be-working-hard-this-offseason-but-not-with-a-qb-tutor/

Baker has real talent and played great last year in his new system, but I think his ceiling is limited by his hubris. I think we've seen Mayfields' best ball already. I don't think that's the case with Josh Allen.

 

 

 

Well last season Baker changed his footwork and mechanics under Alex Van Pelt who molded Aaron Rodgers.  He also worked on his hard count is up there with the best in the league at doing it now.

 

so saying baker isnt working to get better is simply not true.

 

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

Even if Allen has reached his ceiling as an NFL QB he's right up there as a franchise type of player and top 10 at the position.

 

If he continues to get even better look out....

[Inigo Montoya]

38 minutes ago, snowbelt_subie said:

 

Well last season Baker changed his footwork and mechanics under Alex Van Pelt who molded Aaron Rodgers.  He also worked on his hard count is up there with the best in the league at doing it now.

 

so saying baker isnt working to get better is simply not true.

 

 

 

 

 

Alex Van Pelt was a fantastic hire for the Browns, no argument there.  I think he does deserve a lot of credit for the improved play of Baker last year.   The fact remains that Van Pelt is someone the team brought in to help Baker.  Baker didn't spend a month of his off season working with his own QB coach doing everything he could to get better like Allen did again this off season.  There's an article in the Buffalo News today that said Allen spent the last 28 days before the start of training camp in California working with Jordan Palmer on his game.  I'd be curious to know what Baker Mayfield was doing during that time.

 

Josh Allen has an internal drive to constantly get better.  Baker Mayfield showed up as a rookie and thought he had already arrived, as evidenced by the quote I cited in the OP.   It's just a different mindset that the two QBs have, and I think that mindset helps Allen and hurts Mayfield.  

 

🍻

[Blainorama5]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Josh Allen has an internal drive to constantly get better.  Baker Mayfield showed up as a rookie and thought he had already arrived, as evidenced by the quote I cited in the OP.   It's just a different mindset that the two QBs have, and I think that mindset helps Allen and hurts Mayfield.  

Agreed.  I think that's the difference between a young guy who feels entitled as a No. 1 pick and a guy who got mostly overlooked before Buffalo took him at 7.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Alex Van Pelt was a fantastic hire for the Browns, no argument there.  I think he does deserve a lot of credit for the improved play of Baker last year.   The fact remains that Van Pelt is someone the team brought in to help Baker.  Baker didn't spend a month of his off season working with his own QB coach doing everything he could to get better like Allen did again this off season. 

 

I mean, do you know this? 

There are a couple of hints to that regard - one is Mayfield's quotes (which are IMO a bit of a barb aimed at Allen, Darnold, and the rest of Jordan Palmer's S. Cali QB Summit crew) “It’s not about going somewhere on a beach for a beach workout. " (May 2018) and "I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that." (December 2019)

 

Alex Van Pelt was also quoted after his hire in early 2020 as saying he preferred to be the one working with Mayfield, which Covid kinda put a crimp into.

 

But I don't really know what Mayfield was or was not doing this off season, do you?

 

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

There's an article in the Buffalo News today that said Allen spent the last 28 days before the start of training camp in California working with Jordan Palmer on his game.  I'd be curious to know what Baker Mayfield was doing during that time.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/how-did-josh-allen-spend-most-of-his-summer-break-working/article_b7f5b3b6-efe2-11eb-adcf-0bbd5bc505fb.html

 

Article you're talking about?

 

Quote

How did the Buffalo Bills’ quarterback spend most of his summer vacation? Working, that’s how.

The Bills’ final spring minicamp practice was June 16. Allen said he was in Southern California training with quarterback guru Jordan Palmer for the better part of 28 days, from June 27 right up until Saturday. The Bills’ players reported to training camp Tuesday.

 

Quote

“I feel like I figured out some more things. It’s awesome when you go into an offseason and you’ve got goals in your mind. ... I feel good where I feel very confident in the things that I worked on. And it’s fun to go out here and try to apply those to game-like situations.”

 

Quote

Allen said maintaining proper throwing mechanics is a never-ending process. “It’s a constant grind,” Allen said. “You take time off and it’s just like anything, you’re going to lose it. So you have to constantly be working on it, finding something to be better at. I think we did a good job of that this offseason – of attacking areas that I wanted to work on and again, not neglecting things I’d been working on and letting those go back to old habits. I think it was a very successful offseason. Ultimately time will tell.”

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 7/27/2021 at 5:04 PM, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Not necessarily; but I don't think he would have flamed out like Darnold as you seem to insinuate because of his natural talent, desire, etc that we all love about him. 

 

He probably would not have gotten mononucleosis like Darnold.

[snowbelt_subie]

2 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

Alex Van Pelt was a fantastic hire for the Browns, no argument there.  I think he does deserve a lot of credit for the improved play of Baker last year.   The fact remains that Van Pelt is someone the team brought in to help Baker.  Baker didn't spend a month of his off season working with his own QB coach doing everything he could to get better like Allen did again this off season.  There's an article in the Buffalo News today that said Allen spent the last 28 days before the start of training camp in California working with Jordan Palmer on his game.  I'd be curious to know what Baker Mayfield was doing during that time.

 

Josh Allen has an internal drive to constantly get better.  Baker Mayfield showed up as a rookie and thought he had already arrived, as evidenced by the quote I cited in the OP.   It's just a different mindset that the two QBs have, and I think that mindset helps Allen and hurts Mayfield.  

 

🍻

 

 

i somewhat agree ... the browns staff is very organized and thorough.  Some teams like the browns i believe don't want there QB working with outside "Gurus" because they want the Qb's mechanics and footwork the way that the TEAM wants it not a 3rd party.

 

 

overall i think its much to do about nothing.  The Browns, Bills Ravens, Chiefs  are going to be good with young QB's for the foreseeable future. its going to come down to head to head matchups in the playoffs much like Big ben, Brady, Manning.

 

Allen beat jackson and no one has beat Mahomes yet... its going to be fun moving forward.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:00 PM, Mat68 said:

Also, look at who else is at those camps.  Imo Jordan Palmer owes more to Allen than Allen owes Palmer.  Palmer has been a good fit for sure with him.  I feel like everyone besides Allen gets the credit for becoming what he has.  He is a physical freak ar Wyoming as a Sophmore.  Add in the under recruited and constant judging of his play he has an insanse work ethic.  

 

At this point I certainly don't think Allen is having to pay Palmer anything. If anything, Palmer will do whatever he has to do to keep Allen showing up in the off-season as i am sure there is no better spent advertising money then having Allen at one of his training events. 

[Albany,n.y.]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:37 PM, snowbelt_subie said:

 

if josh allen, lamar, or baker went to the Jets it would be the same result as what happened.  Lamar got a stable franchise and HC,  Baker had a clown show and finally got a grown up in stefanski and turned it around, Allen has had MR stability Mcd.

 

as much as people dont want to hear it . these Qb's are a product of their environment more than anything.

Nonsense!  Josh Allen had the worst offense in his rookie year than any of the QBs.  No OL, no WR, basically he was a one man show his rookie year miraculously winning 5 games in 11 starts & probably would have won a 6th if Peterman hadn't messed things up in Houston. Josh Allen overcame that offense.  That offense brought his stats down where the people who don't watch him play questioned his NFL viability.  The Bills who saw him every day never questioned his ability because they understood they gave him nothing to work with as a rookie.  If he was a product of his rookie environment, when he also had a QB coach who never coached QBs before, he would have sunk like Josh Rosen.  Rosen is now on his 4th team, because like every other QB in the NFL who busted, the NFL game was too big for him, no matter what the environment around him was.  Great QBs change the enviroment themselves, bust QBs will fail everywhere.  

 

Using your premise, if environment was the most important thing, all those mid round QBs drafted in NE would all be superstars.  Tom Brady would uplift any team & if the Bills, during their drought years had drafted Brady, they would have won a ton of games and possibly multiple Super Bowls, no matter how bad the coaching staff was.

 

Nowadays, most QBs have their own QB coach or some kind of mentor who isn't part of the NFL.  If the team he's on isn't providing a proper environment, the player will lean more heavily on his private coach.  The good & great ones make their own environment & the bad ones flame out no matter how good the environment around them is on their team.     

 

QBs make coaches, not the other way around.  Year after year there are coaches who never have won anything before become geniuses with a franchise QB.  Just look at what Jim Kelly did for Marv Levy; Brady did for Belichick, who is below 500 without Brady; Roethlisberger has done for Tomlin; Peyton Manning did for just about all his coaches; and Russell Wilson has done for 2 time NFL loser Pete Carroll.   

 

Most HOF coaches get there on the back of a HOF QB.  

[snowbelt_subie]

11 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Nonsense!  Josh Allen had the worst offense in his rookie year than any of the QBs.  No OL, no WR, basically he was a one man show his rookie year miraculously winning 5 games in 11 starts & probably would have won a 6th if Peterman hadn't messed things up in Houston. Josh Allen overcame that offense.  That offense brought his stats down where the people who don't watch him play questioned his NFL viability.  The Bills who saw him every day never questioned his ability because they understood they gave him nothing to work with as a rookie.  If he was a product of his rookie environment, when he also had a QB coach who never coached QBs before, he would have sunk like Josh Rosen.  Rosen is now on his 4th team, because like every other QB in the NFL who busted, the NFL game was too big for him, no matter what the environment around him was.  Great QBs change the enviroment themselves, bust QBs will fail everywhere.  

 

Using your premise, if environment was the most important thing, all those mid round QBs drafted in NE would all be superstars.  Tom Brady would uplift any team & if the Bills, during their drought years had drafted Brady, they would have won a ton of games and possibly multiple Super Bowls, no matter how bad the coaching staff was.

 

Nowadays, most QBs have their own QB coach or some kind of mentor who isn't part of the NFL.  If the team he's on isn't providing a proper environment, the player will lean more heavily on his private coach.  The good & great ones make their own environment & the bad ones flame out no matter how good the environment around them is on their team.     

 

QBs make coaches, not the other way around.  Year after year there are coaches who never have won anything before become geniuses with a franchise QB.  Just look at what Jim Kelly did for Marv Levy; Brady did for Belichick, who is below 500 without Brady; Roethlisberger has done for Tomlin; Peyton Manning did for just about all his coaches; and Russell Wilson has done for 2 time NFL loser Pete Carroll.   

 

Most HOF coaches get there on the back of a HOF QB.  

 

i guess we will agree to disagree.  i think you need both to succeed. if you think josh allen would be a star on the Jets the last couple of years idk what to tell ya. no one  not even tom brady would have done well.

 

think its a coincidence that Ryan Tannehill  has been really good now that he got away from Gase or Baker mayfield was really bad under freddie kitchens and now was really good under Stefanski? 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, snowbelt_subie said:

 

i guess we will agree to disagree.  i think you need both to succeed. if you think josh allen would be a star on the Jets the last couple of years idk what to tell ya. no one  not even tom brady would have done well.

 

think its a coincidence that Ryan Tannehill  has been really good now that he got away from Gase or Baker mayfield was really bad under freddie kitchens and now was really good under Stefanski? 

 

If Josh was on the Jets they never would have fired Bowles or the GM & they wouldn't have been the no-talent disaster they were under Gase.  They would have given Josh the weapons needed instead of letting his best receiver go like the Jets did to Darnold.  If the GM totally screws up his job like Joe Douglas did last year in a failed tank to get Trevor Lawrence (I have always thought that all tanks are done by the GM messing up the roster so that the coaching staff has an insufficient amount of players to win because all players & coaches play to win every game-except playoff spot locked up teams in season finales) then he can make a QB look bad, but you can't ruin a good player.   

 

Tannehill's biggest problem in Miami was he kept getting hurt.  Bad coaches can make a player look bad, but that's pretty short term for guys destined to be stars.  Look at when Jim Kelly came here.  He had a horrible 1st coach with the Bills & the team knew the sooner they got rid of Bullough, the better. 

 

You don't have to have a great organization to develop a QB, but you can't have a joke of a coaching staff either because the play calling can make a QB look bad even when the talent is still evident in spite of some bad stats.