reddogblitz Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Governor said: The easiest and most overlooked layer of security is to not have devices, equipment, accounts, subscriptions, etc. in your real name. That should be your failsafe layer. please tell me you don't really believe this. If you do, You're a sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Sundancer said: Science: vax side effects minimal. Message board: I have a ____ who is almost dead from the vaccine. Color me skeptical. I got the shot and six week latter. Boom....side swiped by someone running a red light. Explain that? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Italy makes COVID health pass mandatory for all workers ROME, Sept 16 (Reuters) - The Italian government approved on Thursday some of the strictest anti-COVID measures in the world, making it obligatory for all workers either to show proof of vaccination, a negative test or recent recovery from infection. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-readies-law-make-covid-health-pass-mandatory-all-workers-2021-09-16/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, LeviF said: Funny how all those completely anonymous Reddit stories about Qanon casualties are gospel but real people putting their real names on these stories must be all made up. You believe people posting in FB groups over scientific studies. How very pre enlightenment of you. Get some eye of newt ready. 2 hours ago, Bockeye said: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history Yep - Blindly trust their science. color me skeptical billion of doses given "But there's a Facebook group!! " Edited September 17, 2021 by Sundancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bockeye said: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158207967261135&id=80221381134&m_entstream_source=timeline&__tn__=*s*s-R I’d actually prefer if you pro-COVID-vaxxers research all these people and tell me these comments are BS. They keep coming in. There are many more similar threads on social media sites that pop up, but most get closed quickly or comments censored. Like I said, I know many, many more people with moderate to very severe adverse reactions than folks who have passed from COVID. I never thought I'd see the day when an argument that "But there's a Facebook group that says ____" had multiple supporters. Congratulations, we've plumbed a new bottom! Who else is in this club besides @LeviF and @Bockeye? Edited September 17, 2021 by Sundancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I got the shot and six week latter. Boom....side swiped by someone running a red light. Explain that? You’re fat? Must have been a Trumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I never thought I'd see the day when an argument that "But there's a Facebook group that says ____" had multiple supporters. Congratulations, we've plumbed a new bottom! Who else is in this club besides @LeviF and @Bockeye? We've devolved into a system of coercion and tyranny where elected and appointed officials issue mostly medically unsupported and unexplained edicts and proclamations, without public debate and conversation, that have taken medicine and science out of the hands of physicians, researchers, and scientists working in a cooperative environment to serve and balance the interests of society and individual patients. Add to that a bonus feature where unqualified social media platform managers officiate and monitor the public health conversation deciding which ideas, facts, and opinions (informed and uninformed) should be allowed to enter the conversation. A task that should be left to the medical and scientific communities and patients to freely evaluate to draw conclusions and set health policies. Its a mess at an entirely higher level that can not and will not produce the results necessary to manage and suppress the outbreak. Supporting officials issuing these mandates is supporting failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: You believe people posting in FB groups over scientific studies. How very pre enlightenment of you. Get some eye of newt ready. billion of doses given "But there's a Facebook group!! " Speaking of scientific studies, if they force 100% of people to get the vaccine, how will they conduct scientific studies on the long term effects of the vaccine? Or is the need for a control group, erm, pre-enlightenment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, LeviF said: Speaking of scientific studies, if they force 100% of people to get the vaccine, how will they conduct scientific studies on the long term effects of the vaccine? Or is the need for a control group, erm, pre-enlightenment? Speaking of control groups. How many people aware that the Pfizer vaccine study control group was vaccinated for "compassionate" purposes? Which means the clinical researchers have no baseline group to measure and monitor the efficacy and safety of the vaccine over time. Whether or not this is a common practice I do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Covid deaths As per the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm 511,000 over 65- (77%) 125,000 from 45-64 (19%) 21,000 under 45 (3.3%) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, LeviF said: Speaking of scientific studies, if they force 100% of people to get the vaccine, how will they conduct scientific studies on the long term effects of the vaccine? Or is the need for a control group, erm, pre-enlightenment? You can use a historical control group of what the incidence of different conditions was prior to Covid and vaccinations. Now, as to long term effects: Historically the incidence of "long term" effects pf vaccines shows very, very minimal effects seen. The two that are most mentioned are Guillan-Barre syndrome and one time when there was something with polio. As for the GB events, GB syndrome is associated with viral infections and studies show that vaccination might raise the incidence by 1-2 cases per million vaccinations. The polio one was where a non-attenuated or inactivated virus got put into the vaccine pool. These kinds of adverse events were found within weeks, not years. The history of vaccination is clear in that there are no side effects seen years and years down the road. The Covid vaccines have been out there for months now and billi0ns delivered around the world. That data, as well as the clinical studies data done to get EUA and for Pfizer FDA approval, show minimal serious adverse effects, the most prominent the myocarditis and blood clots issues. That these very rare events (on the order of a handful per million vaccinations) were picked up shows the robustness of the monitoring systems used for the Covid vaccines. I know you will bring up the VAERS reporting system, so let's put that to bed now. The VAERS system is a voluntary reporting system where anyone who has received a vaccine can post a side effect. As for deaths, health care providers have to report any deaths from anyone who has received any sort of vaccination. With respect to Covid, they are reported (And one wonders whether false reports are filed by anti-vax individuals), and these reports then are required to have follow up by the CDC and FDA where case reports, death certificates and such are analyzed. When that follow-up has been done, there are extremely rare cases where it appears the vaccine may have directly contibuted to death. So bottom line is this: there is no data to support either the claim that there are long term side effects of the vaccines, nor is there data to support the contention that so many people are dying from vaccination. That is the science, that is the data, that is not the conspiracy nonsense being thrown around on social media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: We've devolved into a system of coercion and tyranny where elected and appointed officials issue mostly medically unsupported and unexplained edicts and proclamations, without public debate and conversation, that have taken medicine and science out of the hands of physicians, researchers, and scientists working in a cooperative environment to serve and balance the interests of society and individual patients. Add to that a bonus feature where unqualified social media platform managers officiate and monitor the public health conversation deciding which ideas, facts, and opinions (informed and uninformed) should be allowed to enter the conversation. A task that should be left to the medical and scientific communities and patients to freely evaluate to draw conclusions and set health policies. Its a mess at an entirely higher level that can not and will not produce the results necessary to manage and suppress the outbreak. Supporting officials issuing these mandates is supporting failure. Listen to your doctor on vaccines. Seems simple no? You’re over complicating things with your conspiracy mindset. Edited September 17, 2021 by Sundancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) In other words, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Again, I got the vaccine and don’t believe there are a statistically significant number of deaths or serious side effects. And your straw man beat downs aren’t convincing in any case. But your outright dismissal of people who have concerns about whether they may have issues after the vaccine, or that they might get the vaccine and die of COVID anyway, isn’t gonna help your cause, whatever that might be. Edited September 17, 2021 by LeviF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, LeviF said: Speaking of scientific studies, if they force 100% of people to get the vaccine, how will they conduct scientific studies on the long term effects of the vaccine? Or is the need for a control group, erm, pre-enlightenment? Don’t worry: You will be able to find another Facebook group to support your study. 2 minutes ago, LeviF said: In other words, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Again, I got the vaccine and don’t believe there are a statistically significant number of deaths or serious side effects. And your straw man beat downs aren’t convincing in any case. But your outright dismissal of people who have concerns about whether they may have issues after the vaccine, or that they might get the vaccine and die of COVID anyway, isn’t gonna help your cause, whatever that might be. Listen to your doctor. Seems like simple advice. Don’t need Twitter, your vaunted Facebook Groups, or PPP. Don’t need FoxNews or MSNBC. Skip Alex Berenson and Fauci. Edited September 17, 2021 by Sundancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, ALF said: Italy makes COVID health pass mandatory for all workers ROME, Sept 16 (Reuters) - The Italian government approved on Thursday some of the strictest anti-COVID measures in the world, making it obligatory for all workers either to show proof of vaccination, a negative test or recent recovery from infection. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-readies-law-make-covid-health-pass-mandatory-all-workers-2021-09-16/ I think that’s only a quarter of their population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 This is an interesting thread in how much of the argument is not about government forcing people to do things that they might think is detrimental to them in order to benefit older people. If you mandate a vaccine without at least a 5 year study to children who have minimal risk from the virus you are ethically wrong. Every disease prior to this that became a childhood mandate was a large threat to children and currently there is no evidence of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: Listen to your doctor on vaccines. Seems simple no? You’re over complicating things with your conspiracy mindset. Really? I thought I articulated our current dilemma perfectly. And its not that simple. Is it? Not when uninformed officials are making unilateral decisions on health issues which conflict with known science and ignore facts that conflict with their edicts. I'm not concerned nor do I care about their motivations at this point. They are simply incapable of getting the job done and need to be replaced with people driven to make decisions with facts and science. Why is it so difficult to see and accept that we're heading down a path to failure without change in direction? Edited September 17, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 People - get vaccinated for heaven's sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Really? I thought I articulated our current dilemma perfectly. And its not that simple. Is it? Not when uninformed officials are making unilateral decisions on health issues which conflict with known science and ignore facts that conflict with their edicts. I'm not concerned nor do I care about their motivations at this point. They are simply incapable of getting the job done and need to be replaced with people driven to make decisions with facts and science. "Listen to your doctor!" I, for one, am shocked that an industry that includes as barriers to entry hundreds of thousands of dollars in un-dischargeable debt and the most robust affirmative action programs ever installed, and relies almost entirely on government and big pharma funding, would so uniformly fall into conformance with the recommendations of the government and big pharma. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, reddogblitz said: please tell me you don't really believe this. If you do, You're a sucker. It’s one of my many layers. My point is, there’s no sense in adding the other layers if everything can just be tracked to your devices and your ip registered in your name. Edited September 17, 2021 by Governor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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