It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[Big Blitz]

21 minutes ago, ALF said:

So is Israel recommending a tweaked booster shot ?

 

 

Pfizer is calling for boosters already.  

 

Isreal thinks they are necessary.

 

 

 

Then what?  That immunity won't last.  Covid will.  Forever.  

 

These metrics and common sense say masks forever.  Masks mean no normal school for years.  A travesty.  

 

People need to stop watching the news and start analyzing the news.  

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

You sure about this?

 

BREAKING:

 

Founder of mRNA vaccines says "stop the vaccination program - the vaccinated are exacerbating mutations - and the vaccines could lead to more severe cases 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe someone can out science this guy.  Apologies if you're triggered by the fact that Bannon interviewed him.  

Or we could just go with the numbers on the ground.  Enough of this anti-vax grifter nonsense.

 

 

[ALF]

I'm ok with a booster, hit me

 

 

[Big Blitz]

18 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Or we could just go with the numbers on the ground.  Enough of this anti-vax grifter nonsense.

 

 

 

 

Wrong.  

 

A very good thread on "how this plays out" it was retweeted by Nate Silver:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's over.  There is nothing we can do TEAM ERADICATION.  

 

Every mitigation policy is worthless.  

 

We're all going to get Covid either as a cold (extremely likely if vaccinated) or as severe illness (if not, but vaccinated can as well).

 

 

 

 

Years.  Let's not make every one lose their minds over the next 5 plus years of this by playing politics. 

 

Time to move on.  

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Wrong.  

 

A very good thread on "how this plays out" it was retweeted by Nate Silver:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's over.  There is nothing we can do TEAM ERADICATION.  

 

Every mitigation policy is worthless.  

 

We're all going to get Covid either as a cold (extremely likely if vaccinated) or as severe illness (if not, but vaccinated can as well).

 

 

 

 

Years.  Let's not make every one lose their minds over the next 5 plus years of this by playing politics. 

 

Time to move on.  

 

 

 

I agree with all of this.  What does this have to do with the anti-vax bs you've been posting?  There's a fricken reason case numbers are way up and hospitalizations/deaths aren't.  VACCINES

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I agree with all of this.  What does this have to do with the anti-vax bs you've been posting?  There's a fricken reason case numbers are way up and hospitalizations/deaths aren't.  VACCINES

 

 

This is why - I'm not anti vaxx I'm anti vaxx/mitigation without justification, metrics, and exit strategy that ends in

 

"BACK TO NORMAL BUT KEEP IN MIND THERE IS A VIRUS OUT THERE YOU CAN GET SERIOUSLY ILL FROM IF NOT VACCINATED OR YOU HAVE NATURAL IMMUNITY.  It is up to you, peace out":

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Right and you just happened to edit your previous post by deleting the anti mRNA vaccine doctor (Robert Malone) interview Steve Bannon conducted after I called you out.  

 

 

I didn't delete or edit anything.  

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

You sure about this?

 

BREAKING:

 

Founder of mRNA vaccines says "stop the vaccination program - the vaccinated are exacerbating mutations - and the vaccines could lead to more severe cases 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe someone can out science this guy.  Apologies if you're triggered by the fact that Bannon interviewed him.  

 

31 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

This is why - I'm not anti vaxx I'm anti vaxx/mitigation without justification, metrics, and exit strategy that ends in

 

"BACK TO NORMAL BUT KEEP IN MIND THERE IS A VIRUS OUT THERE YOU CAN GET SERIOUSLY ILL FROM IF NOT VACCINATED OR YOU HAVE NATURAL IMMUNITY.  It is up to you, peace out":

 

 

 

Your right and I deleted the post.

 

Still though.  How are these two things consistent with each other?

 

 

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

 

Your right and I deleted the post.

 

Still though.  How are these two things consistent with each other?

 

 

 

 

This is the internet.  We are exchanging ideas.  

 

I found an interview with the founder of mRNA tech and thought it was in the public's interest.  

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

This is the internet.  We are exchanging ideas.  

 

I found an interview with the founder of mRNA tech and thought it was in the public's interest.  

You stated above he was the inventor of the mRNA vaccines.

[Big Blitz]

15 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You stated above he was the inventor of the mRNA vaccines.

 

 

It's what I initially found in my quick background check of him after the interview (I try).

 

I dug deeper:

 

According to the New York Times, "For her entire career, Dr. Kariko has focused on messenger RNA, or mRNA — the genetic script that carries DNA instructions to each cell’s protein-making machinery. She was convinced mRNA could be used to instruct cells to make their own medicines, including vaccines." While Malone's research may have been important, scientific breakthroughs don't always boast a sole "inventor." Instead, they come about through the work of many. UPDATE: Malone reached out to Logically, stating that he did not invent the mRNA vaccines, but instead the "vaccine technology platform." He also presented us with copies of nine patents – none of which showed that he invented the mRNA vaccines.

 

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eef

 

 

 

Enough for me to be good with him knowing what he's talking about.  

[Big Blitz]

Initial find:

 

 

The man who invented the mRNA technology used in some coronavirus vaccines says he was censored by YouTube for sharing his concerns on the vaccines in a podcast.

 

"[O]ne of my concerns are that the

government is not being transparent with us about what those risks are. And so, I'm of the opinion that people have the right to decide whether to accept a vaccine or not, especially since these are experimental vaccines," said Dr. Robert Malone during a Wednesday segment on Fox News's Tucker Carlson Tonight, saying YouTube deleted a video of him speaking about the associated risks.

 

Opening the segment, Carlson shared some studies showing heart inflammation and death correlating with the use of the vaccines.

 

"A Norwegian study conducted of 100 nursing home residents who died after receiving Pfizer's corona shots. They found that at least 10 of those deaths were likely caused by the vaccine. 10%," Carlson said.

 

That's one of my other objections, is that we toss about these words, risk-benefit analysis, casually as if it's a very deep science. It's not. Normally, at this stage, the CDC [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] would have performed those risk-benefit analyses. They would be data-based and science-based. They're not right now," Malone said.

 

Malone also said he has "a bias that the benefits probably don't outweigh the risks" for younger people who are being encouraged or required to take the vaccine.

 

"I can say that the risk-benefit ratio for those 18 and below doesn't justify vaccines, and there's a pretty good chance that it doesn't justify vaccination in these very young adults," he added.

 

Malone discovered in-vitro and in-vivo RNA transfection when he was at the Salk Institute in 1988, and he subsequently invented mRNA vaccines, which are being used over 20 years later to combat the spread of the coronavirus.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/single-most-qualified-mrna-expert-173600060.html

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Initial find:

 

 

The man who invented the mRNA technology used in some coronavirus vaccines says he was censored by YouTube for sharing his concerns on the vaccines in a podcast.

 

"[O]ne of my concerns are that the

government is not being transparent with us about what those risks are. And so, I'm of the opinion that people have the right to decide whether to accept a vaccine or not, especially since these are experimental vaccines," said Dr. Robert Malone during a Wednesday segment on Fox News's Tucker Carlson Tonight, saying YouTube deleted a video of him speaking about the associated risks.

 

Opening the segment, Carlson shared some studies showing heart inflammation and death correlating with the use of the vaccines.

 

"A Norwegian study conducted of 100 nursing home residents who died after receiving Pfizer's corona shots. They found that at least 10 of those deaths were likely caused by the vaccine. 10%," Carlson said.

 

That's one of my other objections, is that we toss about these words, risk-benefit analysis, casually as if it's a very deep science. It's not. Normally, at this stage, the CDC [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] would have performed those risk-benefit analyses. They would be data-based and science-based. They're not right now," Malone said.

 

Malone also said he has "a bias that the benefits probably don't outweigh the risks" for younger people who are being encouraged or required to take the vaccine.

 

"I can say that the risk-benefit ratio for those 18 and below doesn't justify vaccines, and there's a pretty good chance that it doesn't justify vaccination in these very young adults," he added.

 

Malone discovered in-vitro and in-vivo RNA transfection when he was at the Salk Institute in 1988, and he subsequently invented mRNA vaccines, which are being used over 20 years later to combat the spread of the coronavirus.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/single-most-qualified-mrna-expert-173600060.html

"The government is not being transparent with us about what those risks are."  And there it is, plain and simple. 

 

The problem here isn't that uninformed people are hesitant to get vaccinated, or that others are spreading mis-information, or that some political or moral beliefs are  getting in the way of ensuring society is "safe" from the virus.  The problem is a large percentage of the population has concluded the government and many public officials cannot be trusted to be honest and tell the truth.  Even people choosing to get vaccinated share this distrust.  The message and messenger lack credibility.  They look around at all the hustles and cons being perpetrated on them and see this as just one in that series.  

 

The same people that are looking to "force" you to get vaccinated won't enforce the law against shoplifters in San Francisco or stop scumbags on the streets of NYC from beating and robbing 75 year old grandmothers in broad daylight.   Obviously corrupt public officials are allowed to continue in the jobs.  Political and social protesters that are on the "right" side of issues are allowed to rampage through the streets of cities burning and looting and causing physical harm.  They let thousands of un-vaccinated virus carrying refugees into the country and are dispersing them throughout the country and become indignant when anyone questions this contradiction in policy where citizens are subjected to draconian measures while what some view as invaders can roam freely to spread the virus.

 

But these same characters that turn a blind eye to corruption and lawlessness elsewhere are more than happy to send storm troopers around neighborhoods to kick in doors to make sure everybody is wearing their masks watching TV together or that nobody assembles in groups of more than 4 people standing too close together. 

 

They work to silence informed and "expert" dissenters but impose unclear and constantly changing and sometimes irrational proclamations they claim "follow the science" but can't even clearly explain or articulate just what that science is saying. And when questioned their answer is "just obey us".   They parrot the safe and effective mantra about vaccines but impose public policy that suggests they don't work.  They look like liars, and they are liars.  If this was ancient Roman they would be crucified and displayed along road sides for the public to see the consequences these corrupt officials faced for their crimes.   Why should anyone trust them to tell you the truth about the vaccines when they lie about everything else?  

 

Some posters support mandates and cite past mandates such requiring polio vaccines for school children but in that era the government had legitimacy.  And the risks and dangers were clearly understood and communicated by trusted medical professionals and public health officials.  The vaccine was safe and effective and time has shown that to be true.  And while I wasn't around at the time I don't believe Jonas Salk became an overnight billionaire for developing the vaccine.  Contrast that to today.  Everybody everywhere is in on "the take".  Public official, private corporations.  And nobody was out there shutting down the entire US economy or suggesting you'll lose your job or livelihood if you refuse to comply.  

 

To get this done right we need a new group of public health officials and political leaders.  People that can be trusted.  And it ain't this current crew that's for sure.  

 

   

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 hours ago, ALF said:

 

I could give a damn about my insurance costs , I care about unvaccinated people suffering in the hospital and dying. What are you fixated on?

I initially replied to this post you wrote a short time before this one:

 

   12 hours ago,  ALF said: 

Get vaccinated , my health insurance premiums are high now without more unnecessary covid hospitalizations to make it increase.

 

 

I don’t doubt you when you say you’re worried about unvaccinated people (Democrats, Republicans, White, Black, Latin, Native American etc) spreading the virus—-you’ve been clear on that, though perhaps a bit selective at times.  I simply pointed out that your concern over the cost of your health insurance shouldn’t be a factor here—we all should pitch in for the greater good.  Your share may be higher because you’re well off.  

[Westside]

9 hours ago, ALF said:

 

I could give a damn about my insurance costs , I care about unvaccinated people suffering in the hospital and dying. What are you fixated on?

Unless they’re Trumpers, then they could just die a slow painful death, right ALF?

[Sundancer]

4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

"The government is not being transparent with us about what those risks are."  And there it is, plain and simple. 

 

The problem here isn't that uninformed people are hesitant to get vaccinated, or that others are spreading mis-information, or that some political or moral beliefs are  getting in the way of ensuring society is "safe" from the virus.  The problem is a large percentage of the population has concluded the government and many public officials cannot be trusted to be honest and tell the truth.  Even people choosing to get vaccinated share this distrust.  The message and messenger lack credibility.  They look around at all the hustles and cons being perpetrated on them and see this as just one in that series.  

 

The same people that are looking to "force" you to get vaccinated won't enforce the law against shoplifters in San Francisco or stop scumbags on the streets of NYC from beating and robbing 75 year old grandmothers in broad daylight.   Obviously corrupt public officials are allowed to continue in the jobs.  Political and social protesters that are on the "right" side of issues are allowed to rampage through the streets of cities burning and looting and causing physical harm.  They let thousands of un-vaccinated virus carrying refugees into the country and are dispersing them throughout the country and become indignant when anyone questions this contradiction in policy where citizens are subjected to draconian measures while what some view as invaders can roam freely to spread the virus.

 

But these same characters that turn a blind eye to corruption and lawlessness elsewhere are more than happy to send storm troopers around neighborhoods to kick in doors to make sure everybody is wearing their masks watching TV together or that nobody assembles in groups of more than 4 people standing too close together. 

 

They work to silence informed and "expert" dissenters but impose unclear and constantly changing and sometimes irrational proclamations they claim "follow the science" but can't even clearly explain or articulate just what that science is saying. And when questioned their answer is "just obey us".   They parrot the safe and effective mantra about vaccines but impose public policy that suggests they don't work.  They look like liars, and they are liars.  If this was ancient Roman they would be crucified and displayed along road sides for the public to see the consequences these corrupt officials faced for their crimes.   Why should anyone trust them to tell you the truth about the vaccines when they lie about everything else?  

 

Some posters support mandates and cite past mandates such requiring polio vaccines for school children but in that era the government had legitimacy.  And the risks and dangers were clearly understood and communicated by trusted medical professionals and public health officials.  The vaccine was safe and effective and time has shown that to be true.  And while I wasn't around at the time I don't believe Jonas Salk became an overnight billionaire for developing the vaccine.  Contrast that to today.  Everybody everywhere is in on "the take".  Public official, private corporations.  And nobody was out there shutting down the entire US economy or suggesting you'll lose your job or livelihood if you refuse to comply.  

 

To get this done right we need a new group of public health officials and political leaders.  People that can be trusted.  And it ain't this current crew that's for sure.  

 

   

 

The "problem" is that this is a new virus. It is not fully predictable, and thus our scientists are doing what scientists can only do: Their best. 

[Sundancer]

 

Florida and Texas are now 33% of the daily US death toll. That's a wild number. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

 

The "problem" is that this is a new virus. It is not fully predictable, and thus our scientists are doing what scientists can only do: Their best. 

The outbreak is predictable.  Its following the same pattern previous viral outbreak have followed.  Waves, mutations, everything.  I've seen recent proprietary forecast models that suggest the delta outbreak cycle will be much shorter and lower in cases and a lot lower in deaths than previous cycles.       

 

And if scientist were actually in charge of this response I might agree with you.  And if leadership was following the advice of experts across the scientific community I would agree with you.  But they are not.  They are accepting the views of those that agree with them and rejecting the views of those that disagree.  Supported by science or not.  That's not our best.  All while sending mixed and confusing directives out to the public.

 

 

[Sundancer]

23 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The outbreak is predictable.  Its following the same pattern previous viral outbreak have followed.  Waves, mutations, everything.

 

 

Dude, you can't be serious. There's no predictable playbook for this virus. You can't predict mutations. We could not have predicted mRNA vaccines being so effective. We didn't know there'd be nervous system involvement in the virus. We didn't know the age-specific thing. And we certainly could not predict the waves happening like this. 

 

In the broadest strokes, we could predict some things but not in a specific way. And thus the changing forecasts. Scientists are doing their best. 

 

23 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

  I've seen recent proprietary forecast models that suggest the delta outbreak cycle will be much shorter and lower in cases and a lot lower in deaths than previous cycles.       

 

They may be right. They may be wrong. But until it worked its way through India/UK/Israel, we had no idea. Now we have data, so now we can make some forecasts. (Note that those countries had much less/higher/much higher rates of vaccination than the US respectively. 

 

23 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

And if scientist were actually in charge of this response I might agree with you.  And if leadership was following the advice of experts across the scientific community I would agree with you.  But they are not.  They are accepting the views of those that agree with them and rejecting the views of those that disagree.  Supported by science or not.  That's not our best.  All while sending mixed and confusing directives out to the public.

 

 

 

Scientists don't all agree on the policy response. Again, how is this something to be surprised about? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

21 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Dude, you can't be serious. There's no predictable playbook for this virus. You can't predict mutations. We could not have predicted mRNA vaccines being so effective. We didn't know there'd be nervous system involvement in the virus. We didn't know the age-specific thing. And we certainly could not predict the waves happening like this. 

 

In the broadest strokes, we could predict some things but not in a specific way. And thus the changing forecasts. Scientists are doing their best. 

 

 

They may be right. They may be wrong. But until it worked its way through India/UK/Israel, we had no idea. Now we have data, so now we can make some forecasts. (Note that those countries had much less/higher/much higher rates of vaccination than the US respectively. 

 

 

Scientists don't all agree on the policy response. Again, how is this something to be surprised about? 

Viruses mutate.  Can we predict the specific mutations?  No.  I'm not saying that.  But as a general rule the become more contagious but less lethal.  And there are other variants already out there besides the Delta. 

 

And yes scientists don't all agree but the ones that don't agree with the official narrative get silenced, blocked from social media, have their you tube videos taken down, get criticized by media shills.  Don't get to speak their peace.  Which causes others to not speak out of fear.  Which suppresses the process of scientific discovery we all depend on. 

 

And the CDC and NIH story keeps changing about the vaccine.  First the story is COVID vaccines are safe and effective and provide immunity to the virus.  So get your shot, take your mask off, and resume normal life. 

Now the story is vaccines will not keep you from getting infected but will protect you from serious and critical illness so even vaccinated people need to wear a mask again.  The problem is that characterization doesn't meet the standards for classifying the active agent as a vaccine.  That description applies to treatments.  Equivalent to Tami-flu for influenza.  So I guess its not really a vaccine. 

But we already have safe and effective treatments, approved and awaiting approval, for people that are at low risk of getting a serious and critical case.  All without the unknown risks of adverse long term impacts of the mRNA gene therapy "vaccines".  MABS from companies like Lily and Regeneron.  Others awaiting approval from companies like Humanigen.  And we know who is at "high risk" of developing a serious and critical case so we can customize responses and protections for those specific individuals.  And there are effective treatments for these cases too, approved and awaiting approval.  And we know children under 18 have as close to zero chance of death as can be measured.  So we need some sort of policy "time out" or a big reset here.  Because they're headed down the blanket lock down and restrictions path again. 

That didn't stop it before and it won't stop it now.  So the choice is the virus is going to spread and you can screw up the economy.  Or the virus is going to spread and you do not screw up the economy.