PatsFanNH Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said: Yeah, people love to say that. BUT... just on 2020 stats alone: Tua: 64.1 comp%, 11 TDs, 5 Ints, 87.1 QBR Cam: 65.8 comp%, 8 TDs, 10 Ints, 82.9 QBR Mitch: 67.0 comp.%, 16 TDs, 8 Ints, 93.5 QBR (And a winning record for the season, btw.) If you can come up with a coherent argument for how Trubisky is not the second best QB in the division, let's hear it. 1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said: Yeah, people love to say that. BUT... just on 2020 stats alone: Tua: 64.1 comp%, 11 TDs, 5 Ints, 87.1 QBR Cam: 65.8 comp%, 8 TDs, 10 Ints, 82.9 QBR Mitch: 67.0 comp.%, 16 TDs, 8 Ints, 93.5 QBR (And a winning record for the season, btw.) If you can come up with a coherent argument for how Trubisky is not the second best QB in the division, let's hear it. Cherry picking I see. He has NEVER thrown for more than 3300 yards, he reads Defenses badly, and just isn’t a good QB. Meanwhile you compare a 3rd or 4th year vet to a rookie and a QB whose shoulder is completely shot as an example that he is the 2nd best in the AFCE? Hell I’d take Tua every day and twice on Tuesday over him!! Hell if he was your starting QB I’d bet on the Pats to beat the Bills. You forget he had a WR just as great in Chicago as Diggs and again he never threw for even 3500 yards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 LB depth is awful. Kleine was good for 6 games last year. If he can play at the level hid did at the end of the year they could have some interesting 4-3 looks. Edmunds got some snaps over the OT with Klein at MLB very late in the year. . Everyone else on the team is awful. Safety depth is a worry. LT could be a big problem if Dawkins got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: Cherry picking I see. He has NEVER thrown for more than 3300 yards, he reads Defenses badly, and just isn’t a good QB. Meanwhile you compare a 3rd or 4th year vet to a rookie and a QB whose shoulder is completely shot as an example that he is the 2nd best in the AFCE? Hell I’d take Tua every day and twice on Tuesday over him!! Hell if he was your starting QB I’d bet on the Pats to beat the Bills. You forget he had a WR just as great in Chicago as Diggs and again he never threw for even 3500 yards! Yes, I am comparing Trubisky to a QB who's shoulder is shot, and a rookie who had a lousy season, because that is who the other quarterbacks in the division are. And, you're going to accuse me of cherry picking data, and then throw out the only stat you could find to support an argument that you basically concede in the very next sentence? I'm sorry, but that a bizarre response. And, yeah, I will reiterate my "cherry picked stats," or as I would rather refer to them: "all of the AFCE QB's stats from the 2020 season." Trubisky threw for 2055 yards, 16/8 : TD/Int in 10 games. Cam threw for 2657 yards, 8/10 TD/Int in 15 games. Tua threw for 1814 yards, 11/5 : TD/Int in 10 games. You do the math. Even you know Trubisky is better than Cam, and you have admitted as much. But, you're going to use your "eye test" to argue that Tua is better at... reading defenses??? Did you watch Tua play last season? Please name an aspect of the game in which Tua Tagovailoa is a better quarterback. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 25 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: Yes, I am comparing Trubisky to a QB who's shoulder is shot, and a rookie who had a lousy season, because that is who the other quarterbacks in the division are. And, you're going to accuse me of cherry picking data, and then throw out the only stat you could find to support an argument that you basically concede in the very next sentence? I'm sorry, but that a bizarre response. And, yeah, I will reiterate my "cherry picked stats," or as I would rather refer to them: "all of the AFCE QB's stats from the 2020 season." Trubisky threw for 2055 yards, 16/8 : TD/Int in 10 games. Cam threw for 2657 yards, 8/10 TD/Int in 15 games. Tua threw for 1814 yards, 11/5 : TD/Int in 10 games. You do the math. Even you know Trubisky is better than Cam, and you have admitted as much. But, you're going to use your "eye test" to argue that Tua is better at... reading defenses??? Did you watch Tua play last season? Please name an aspect of the game in which Tua Tagovailoa is a better quarterback. Tua was a rookie, he made less mistakes than Trabisky.. Tua also wasn’t the started at the beginning of the year, Trubisky was as a rookie and the next two years and last year he couldn’t keep it. Maybe talk to Chicago and see why they gave up on him if you think he is so good? Have you watched him play AT ALL? He sucks! Tua has what people who watch football call UPSIDE. While Trubisky is a proven loser and sucky QB. Also by the end of the year the starters in the AFCE will Be: Allen Wilson Tua Jones you give Newton stats as if he is the long term or even full season answer. Dude they aren’t even sure he starts week 1 yet. So what you have is Allen the best followed by Tua and two unproven QBs. With Backups of Trubisky and Stidham (and whoever Miami and NY have) if we go to backups we are all screwed… Trubisky by any measure sucks unless you live in a vacuum and see only stats.. stats are for losers and that’s what Trubisky is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 29 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Tua was a rookie, he made less mistakes than Trabisky.. Tua also wasn’t the started at the beginning of the year, Trubisky was as a rookie and the next two years and last year he couldn’t keep it. Maybe talk to Chicago and see why they gave up on him if you think he is so good? Have you watched him play AT ALL? He sucks! Tua has what people who watch football call UPSIDE. While Trubisky is a proven loser and sucky QB. Also by the end of the year the starters in the AFCE will Be: Allen Wilson Tua Jones you give Newton stats as if he is the long term or even full season answer. Dude they aren’t even sure he starts week 1 yet. So what you have is Allen the best followed by Tua and two unproven QBs. With Backups of Trubisky and Stidham (and whoever Miami and NY have) if we go to backups we are all screwed… Trubisky by any measure sucks unless you live in a vacuum and see only stats.. stats are for losers and that’s what Trubisky is. Allen followed by Tua? In what universe? Again, how would Tua be considered a better QB than Trubisky? By what metric? By what "eye test?" Tua was straight-up terrible last season. And, it's not like there wasn't another known-commodity QB to compare him to. Ryan Fitzpatrick, as flawed a QB as he is, was head, shoulders, and chest better than Tua in every aspect of the game, statistically, objectively, subjectively and by any "eye test" you might want to consider, with the exact same personnel. To be clear, I would consider Fitz to be a better QB than Trubisky, But, not nearly as much better as he was vs. Tua. It's not even close. Maybe Tua pulls it together in '21. But, right now, to consider Tua better than Trubisky is lunacy, even for a Dolphins fan. And, as far as Trubisky being a "loser," I will, once again, remind you that as a professional QB, he has a winning record, including in his last three (out of four) seasons, in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 8 hours ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said: I specifically watched him after he started making some noise earlier in the year. Later in the season and during playoffs, teams threw his way. Maybe birth by fire, but his playoffs seemed very pedestrian to me. Don't get me wrong, I like Dane, and think he is in the Bills top 5 Dark Horse Category, but the shimmer came off a bit in the playoffs. In the playoffs? They'd have had a hard time throwing at Dane. He was inactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 10 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: Allen followed by Tua? In what universe? Again, how would Tua be considered a better QB than Trubisky? By what metric? By what "eye test?" Tua was straight-up terrible last season. And, it's not like there wasn't another known-commodity QB to compare him to. Ryan Fitzpatrick, as flawed a QB as he is, was head, shoulders, and chest better than Tua in every aspect of the game, statistically, objectively, subjectively and by any "eye test" you might want to consider, with the exact same personnel. To be clear, I would consider Fitz to be a better QB than Trubisky, But, not nearly as much better as he was vs. Tua. It's not even close. Maybe Tua pulls it together in '21. But, right now, to consider Tua better than Trubisky is lunacy, even for a Dolphins fan. And, as far as Trubisky being a "loser," I will, once again, remind you that as a professional QB, he has a winning record, including in his last three (out of four) seasons, in the NFL. Your hopeless. Anyone who watched the Chicago Bears knows he was not even an average QB. Why do you think they drafted Fields and let him go? Hell. They went out and tried replace him LAST YEAR! But no he’s definitely a winner when a team who drafted him 3rd overall didn’t even believe him after 3 years. Meanwhile Tua as a rookie looked average which is better than Trubisky ever looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Meanwhile Tua as a rookie looked average which is better than Trubisky ever looked. So you're saying his 2018 season was below average? 2018 Bears 66.6 3,223 24 12 95.4 I get he isn't all that, but you're really reaching with that statement... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 48 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Your hopeless. Anyone who watched the Chicago Bears knows he was not even an average QB. Why do you think they drafted Fields and let him go? Hell. They went out and tried replace him LAST YEAR! But no he’s definitely a winner when a team who drafted him 3rd overall didn’t even believe him after 3 years. Meanwhile Tua as a rookie looked average which is better than Trubisky ever looked. 6 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: So you're saying his 2018 season was below average? 2018 Bears 66.6 3,223 24 12 95.4 I get he isn't all that, but you're really reaching with that statement... And apparently, even though Tua threw for fewer yards, and fewer TDs, on a better team in '20 than Trubisky, Tua is average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Mitch Trubisky throwing to Duke and Kumerow isn't going to lead to may points or challenge for the Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 15 hours ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said: I specifically watched him after he started making some noise earlier in the year. Later in the season and during playoffs, teams threw his way. Maybe birth by fire, but his playoffs seemed very pedestrian to me. Don't get me wrong, I like Dane, and think he is in the Bills top 5 Dark Horse Category, but the shimmer came off a bit in the playoffs. Other than the fact he was inactive in the playoffs, as Gunner stated, why wouldn't teams target him? He was a rookie playing across from a top 5 corner in the league. He played better than expected, and has better athleticism than Wallace. I think he'll make a leap from his rookie year. He will absolutely compete with Wallace to start, and my money is on him to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 42 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Mitch Trubisky throwing to Duke and Kumerow isn't going to lead to may points or challenge for the Division. Obviously....I would be shocked by anyone suggesting that it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Mitch Trubisky throwing to Duke and Kumerow isn't going to lead to may points or challenge for the Division. Could they beat Alabama? 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Our backups would likely go 0-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: Your hopeless. Anyone who watched the Chicago Bears knows he was not even an average QB. Why do you think they drafted Fields and let him go? Hell. They went out and tried replace him LAST YEAR! But no he’s definitely a winner when a team who drafted him 3rd overall didn’t even believe him after 3 years. Meanwhile Tua as a rookie looked average which is better than Trubisky ever looked. Tua looked average? Seriously? Do you mean that he looked like an average backup? I would say he looked bad. Bad, as in I’d take 30 other QBs ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Obviously....I would be shocked by anyone suggesting that it would. Other than the OP who started this thread suggesting just that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Other than the OP who started this thread suggesting just that? Just for the sake of the experiment, I put Duke, or Kumerow as the #3WR only because they were the only ones other than the presumptive starters, Davis, and McK who have had meaningful snaps in a Bills uniform. I actually doubt either will make the team come Sept. And your post is a misrepresentation of what I have suggested. Edited July 14, 2021 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 6 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: And apparently, even though Tua threw for fewer yards, and fewer TDs, on a better team in '20 than Trubisky, Tua is average. Wow so now comparing a full 16 game starter to an 8 game starter. Lmao… look man there is a reason why he is a BACKUP now… HE SUCKED!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 On 7/12/2021 at 6:36 PM, Rocky Landing said: This probably isn't worth its own thread, but I've been discussing with friends who are fans of other teams how important depth is to a team, and how this will be especially important with the upcoming 17 game season. This Bills team is deeper than any one I can remember, and I suspect its depth stacks up to maybe any other team in the league. So, I thought it would be an interesting exercise during this slow offseason, to look at what a Bills team would look like, made up entirely of depth players. Some of you may take issue with some the players I've got as second string-- which is fine. I'm interested in the discussion. The competition for depth on this team is fierce. And also, several of these players are in the conversation for starting positions, and certainly, some of them will be starters come September. Anyone who has a different opinion of what the Bills second string would currently look like, I want to hear it. But-- prove me wrong-- such a Bills team would be in serious contention for the AFCE. Not favored, perhaps... but not the Jets, either. OFFENSE: QB: Mitch Trubisky WR#1: Gabriel Davis WR#2: Jake Kumerow or Duke Williams WR#2: Isaiah McKenzie 2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: Just for the sake of the experiment, I put Duke, or Kumerow as the #3WR only because they were the only ones other than the presumptive starters, Davis, and McK who have had meaningful snaps in a Bills uniform. I actually doubt either will make the team come Sept. And your post is a misrepresentation of what I have suggested. No, it's not. You said, a bolded above: "Such a Bills team would be in serious contention for the AFCE". I'm refuting exactly what you said. How did I misrepresent your exact words? And you put Duke/ Kumerow ahead of McK ( or the same-all at WR2...or something). But hey, shuffle them any way you want but outside of Gabe, that's not an Offense "in serious contention" for the division, which you clearly stated in your OP (and as I correctly pointed out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: No, it's not. You said, a bolded above: "Such a Bills team would be in serious contention for the AFCE". I'm refuting exactly what you said. How did I misrepresent your exact words? And you put Duke/ Kumerow ahead of McK ( or the same-all at WR2...or something). But hey, shuffle them any way you want but outside of Gabe, that's not an Offense "in serious contention" for the division, which you clearly stated in your OP (and as I correctly pointed out). No offense, WEO, but I'm not going to get drawn into one of your endless back-and-forths. Go play with Doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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