pepsicat17 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said: Do I completely disagree with his position, no. I’m fairly open minded on the topic. The issue is that he does not defend his position in a particularly intelligent or logical fashion. IMO he is a poor voice for the conversation, because he is ill-informed, misinformed, and blinded by ideology. This is an unfortunate pattern in many anti-vax or anti-COVID-vax people, which makes an intelligent and objective dialogue about the subject impossible. Note: I have not gotten a vaccine yet, so I am not a judgmental liberal with zero tolerance for alternative perspectives. It seems like you’re trying to make a reasonable comment in the pursuit of a rational dialogue (regardless of the opinion itself, which is the way it should be) then you just have to let us know you’re not a “judgmental liberal with zero tolerance for alternative perspectives”. How can anyone have an “intelligent and objective dialogue” when you make a closing statement like that? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 48 minutes ago, T master said: The vaccine does not stop you from getting or spreading the virus it just helps to keep you from dying from it So all the clinical trials and studies and data collected that have shown this statement to be 100% false, what is your explanation for those? Do you think the scientists lied? Performed bad studies? I genuinely want to know your thoughts. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: See there's this weird double talk thing going on with the anti-vax crowd. On one side it's "the covid vaccine isn't 100% preventive so it's pointless to get;" on the other side it's "if you trust the vaccine why do you care if I'm vaccinated or not?" The two points answer each other. I care if you get the vaccine because some people that get the vaccine will still be susceptible to getting covid, and the more people that are vaccinated the less likely it is that the virus will continue to spread. I actually don't believe it helps or protects, but on the contrary I don't want to take the chance of self inflicted harm that could come from it. Either be that to me or at my hands to my children. The question is posed for those who believes it does make them "safe" from the effects. I'd rather take my chances with me and my children having remained healthy through this entire ordeal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalojedwardo Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 big balls Beasley love it!!! 2 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reader Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, pepsicat17 said: It seems like you’re trying to make a reasonable comment in the pursuit of a rational dialogue (regardless of the opinion itself, which is the way it should be) then you just have to let us know you’re not a “judgmental liberal with zero tolerance for alternative perspectives”. How can anyone have an “intelligent and objective dialogue” when you make a closing statement like that? I am a very open and tolerant person accepting of everyone...unlike those liberals Just in case anyone is guessing my view on this, the above statement is definitely /s Edited June 19, 2021 by Reader 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayray808 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I have a dress code at work but I refuse to let them tell me what to wear and how to live my life. For that reason, I am going to wear whatever I want while at work, and I speak on behalf of other employees who feel the same way. **UPDATE** Anyone know of anywhere hiring? 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, buffalojedwardo said: big balls Beasley love it!!! BBB! Hell yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 53 minutes ago, T master said: The vaccine does not stop you from getting or spreading the virus it just helps to keep you from dying from it and if you are healthy you really need not worry add to that if others get vaccinated & your healthy and don't have it then what is there to fear but the fear they have interjected into all of this ! This is factually incorrect. The vaccines are not 100% effective against an infection. But they are 100% effective in preventing death. The two RNA vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are like 94-95% effective against infection, with the two shots taken. And that is nearly twice as effective as the typical flu vaccine. This was demonstrated by the initial trials and has been confirmed in the field as they continue to study people who have received the vaccine, and tracking of breakthrough infections. The Johnson and Johnson is 72% effective at preventing breakthrough infections and also 100% effective in preventing hospitalization and death, but it's advantage was a single dose and not having to store it at extremely low temps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, H2o said: I actually don't believe it helps or protects, but on the contrary I don't want to take the chance of self inflicted harm that could come from it. Either be that to me or at my hands to my children. The question is posed for those who believes it does make them "safe" from the effects. I'd rather take my chances with me and my children having remained healthy through this entire ordeal. Well, thanks at least for stating your reasons clearly and calmly, without calling everyone else "sheep" for believing the evidence that it does 'help or protect'. Just now, BuffaloBob said: This is factually incorrect. The vaccines are not 100% effective against an infection. But they are 100% effective in preventing death. The two RNA vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are like 94-95% effective against infection, with the two shots taken. And that is nearly twice as effective as the typical flu vaccine. This was demonstrated by the initial trials and has been confirmed in the field as they continue to study people who have received the vaccine, and tracking of breakthrough infections. The Johnson and Johnson is 72% effective at preventing breakthrough infections and also 100% effective in preventing hospitalization and death, but it's advantage was a single dose and not having to store it at extremely low temps. It is important to note they were 100% effective against preventing death in clinical trials, but have not been 100% effective at preventing death in real-world usage based upon data and studies from both Israel and the UK. Also, someone fully vaccinated died in Washington state, I believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, H2o said: I actually don't believe it helps or protects, but on the contrary I don't want to take the chance of self inflicted harm that could come from it. Either be that to me or at my hands to my children. The question is posed for those who believes it does make them "safe" from the effects. I'd rather take my chances with me and my children having remained healthy through this entire ordeal. And just out of curiosity, exactly what factual basis informs your belief that vaccines don't help or protect? I ask this because all of the data, both in trials and empirical data collected in the field, say exactly the opposite. Overwhelmingly the opposite. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, H2o said: I actually don't believe it helps or protects But this is a patently ridiculous belief, given the numerous clinical trials and studies that have shown the opposite. I'll ask the same question I asked above - do you think the scientists that ran those studies lied? Performed bad studies? Or have you seen other studies that indicate the vaccines are not at all effective? If none of those, then what prompts you to believe that all of the available data is wrong? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, BuffaloBob said: And just out of curiosity, exactly what factual basis informs your belief that vaccines don't help or protect? I ask this because all of the data, both in trials and empirical data collected in the field, say exactly the opposite. Overwhelmingly the opposite. Cole illustrated the problem perfectly with this tweet: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Thanks Cole, just what this team needed right now. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said: Well, thanks at least for stating your reasons clearly and calmly, without calling everyone else "sheep" for believing the evidence that it does 'help or protect'. It is important to note they were 100% effective against preventing death in clinical trials, but have not been 100% effective at preventing death in real-world usage based upon data and studies from both Israel and the UK. Also, someone fully vaccinated died in Washington state, I believe. And exactly what were the circumstances of those deaths? How many were there? Did they receive both shots and did the infections occur within a few weeks of vaccination? Were they immunologically compromised to begin with? Full vaccination requires a latency period to achieve full immunological response. I have done searches and see no such information. Please provide me with a link. Thanks. Also, which vaccines were they? I mentioned the three approved for use in the US. There are other vaccines from other providers for which I am not vouching. Edited June 19, 2021 by BuffaloBob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said: Well, thanks at least for stating your reasons clearly and calmly, without calling everyone else "sheep" for believing the evidence that it does 'help or protect'. It is important to note they were 100% effective against preventing death in clinical trials, but have not been 100% effective at preventing death in real-world usage based upon data and studies from both Israel and the UK. Also, someone fully vaccinated died in Washington state, I believe. And 393 non vaccinated Americans died of Covid yesterday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbbillsfan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 25 minutes ago, pepsicat17 said: It seems like you’re trying to make a reasonable comment in the pursuit of a rational dialogue (regardless of the opinion itself, which is the way it should be) then you just have to let us know you’re not a “judgmental liberal with zero tolerance for alternative perspectives”. How can anyone have an “intelligent and objective dialogue” when you make a closing statement like that? because that’s largely who are attacking Cole. There are certainly a plethora of judgmental conservators with zero tolerance for alternative perspectives too, they just aren’t relevant to the Cole Beasley conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 5 hours ago, SCBills said: Eh… not really. Like most of this, the control stance has shifted over time. From “15 days to slow the spread” to “actually, we need to reach 70% for herd immunity” …. well, science and medicine would tell you the combination of natural immunity and vaccination has us there already. We could simply go back to normal right now, but a certain segment of society refuses to allow it… or at least not without the needed compliance to authority. Could we? I have a post in this thread about "back to normal" in MO. "15 days to slow the spread" was based on the premise that there would be a coherent response put in place - "test trace isolate" and other mitigation measures, on a national scale. Did that happen? No. No, it did not. Where do science and medicine tell me that the combination of natural immunity and vaccination have us at herd immunity already? What is the duration of natural immunity from Covid? How many of those vaccinated contracted Covid and should be subtracted from the natural immunity column? There is an equation usually used to calculate the fraction of immune or vaccinated people required for herd immunity. It depends upon a value for Ro. What value for Ro should be used for the current predominant variants? I'm actually looking for answers to these questions, so I'd really appreciate being pointed at the facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said: because that’s largely who are attacking Cole. There are certainly a plethora of judgmental conservators with zero tolerance for alternative perspectives too, they just aren’t relevant to the Cole Beasley conversation. That is incorrect assumption on your part. I ain't no intolerant liberal by any definition. But what I do find hard to tolerate is willful ignorance and gullibility. Edited June 19, 2021 by BuffaloBob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, rayray808 said: I have a dress code at work but I refuse to let them tell me what to wear and how to live my life. For that reason, I am going to wear whatever I want while at work, and I speak on behalf of other employees who feel the same way. **UPDATE** Anyone know of anywhere hiring? Correct. And Beasley is OK with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Beast said: Correct. And Beasley is OK with that. At least he SAYS he is. I'll believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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