Cole Beasley announces he will not be following Covid protocols, willing to retire

[KennyDavisEyes]

32 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

I want people to stop being obstinate, selfish know-it-alls.  I want them to be willing to get vaccinated.  

 

But if the government decided it was in the best interest of the welfare of its citizens to compel vaccinations, I would have no qualms about it.  It shouldn't have to even get to that point in the first place though.

Cool w forced vaccines.  Ah-mazin!

[K-9]

7 hours ago, Beach said:

right, so the unvaccinated are the ones at risk and willing to take that risk.

You do realize that the risk isn’t just to themselves, right? It’s a risk to the team and it’s success if players miss time. It’s bigger than the health issue of individual players who may get sick. 

[CorkScrewHill]

37 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

I want people to stop being obstinate, selfish know-it-alls.  I want them to be willing to get vaccinated.  

 

But if the government decided it was in the best interest of the welfare of its citizens to compel vaccinations, I would have no qualms about it.  It shouldn't have to even get to that point in the first place though.

WOW … just WOW.

 

Nothing ever bad comes from the government feeling they have the power to dictate people’s lives … maybe we can mandate sterilization.. oh wait we did that in the 1900s as we wanted to eliminate the less desirable based on eugenics .. it was so successful that the Nazi party sent representatives to California to determine how the system worked

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBob said:

BTW, I know of no one in my rather large family who had anything more than a sore arm for a day and a half.

 

Similar here.  Bit longer duration on the sore arm.  My kid felt pretty tired and napped most of the next day, but as she said "that could have been a week of late nights studying for the previous day's prelim".  She also probably had covid-19 (antibodies to it) last spring before testing was widespread.  My niece had a similar day of feeling like her butt had been kicked.  But that's about it.  15,000 vaxxed Cornell students all on social media and gossip travels like wind, a few breakthru infections but no serious reactions.  My mom's 300 person Senior residence, no problems.

[KennyDavisEyes]

20 minutes ago, Reader said:

 

Are you honestly saying our only two options are physically forced vaccinations or essentially the opposite? 

My assumption (based in common sense) is that most ppl who haven’t been vaccinated (in our magnificent USA) probably aren’t going to get it.  Ever.

 

So, I’m saying, either pin ‘em down and jab em.

 

Or quit projecting your (not you in particular)….. but the overly-emotional-vaccine-fanboys  need to quit projecting their fears onto others and live and let live.

10 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

I don't resent you, I'm just being honest. The shot is 90-95% effective, that means your choice does impact me and others who have had the shot because 14-21 million of us could still get sick. Your choice also impacts those that would get the shot but can't, people with cancer, medical conditions and the immuno compromised. So yes you can say I'm "fine risking others safety, and I will gladly risk their safety of others rather than getting a harmless shot." That's your choice, your freedom, but don't pretend that it only impacts you, your choice does impact others.  

Either your medics works for you or it doesn’t.

[Don Otreply]

22 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

 

C’mon, it’s enough different.  

As a former marine, no it’s not, the reasoning behind being vaccinated is constant, military or civilian. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

WOW … just WOW.

 

Nothing ever bad comes from the government feeling they have the power to dictate people’s lives … maybe we can mandate sterilization.. oh wait we did that in the 1900s as we wanted to eliminate the less desirable based on eugenics .. it was so successful that the Nazi party sent representatives to California to determine how the system worked

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

 

Illogical.  Because one policy is bad or mistaken does not mean others are, ie, any problem with compulsory military draft doesn't make seatbelt laws bad.

 

Mandatory vaccination laws have been around in the US since the early 19th century.  Have there been side effects and some other early problems, yes.  Do we still have smallpox, polio, congenital rubella syndrome in infants, measles-induced immune amnesia (increases all-cause death in infected kids), measles-induced blindness, mumps-induced encephalitis, meningitis, and orchitis, diptheria, and tetanus. 

 

I think it's gonna be pretty tough sledding for you to craft a reasonable argument that mandatory vaccine laws aka "the government feeling they have the power to dictate people's lives" haven't been an overwhelming net societal benefit, but I'll Hang Up and Listen.

[CorkScrewHill]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Similar here.  Bit longer duration on the sore arm.  My kid felt pretty tired and napped most of the next day, but as she said "that could have been a week of late nights studying for the previous day's prelim".  She also probably had covid-19 (antibodies to it) last spring before testing was widespread.  My niece had a similar day of feeling like her butt had been kicked.  But that's about it.  15,000 vaxxed Cornell students all on social media and gossip travels like wind, a few breakthru infections but no serious reactions.  My mom's 300 person Senior residence, no problems.

My wife and daughter both felt sick for a day after the first shot .. my daughter is in the medical field so she got it early and has had no other problems 

[KennyDavisEyes]

10 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

The "upset" people are the unvaccinated ones that want to do whatever they want. This thread is about an unvaccinated player that is refusing to comply to Covid protocols. If he would have just followed the rules and kept his mouth shut, we wouldn't be discussing it. But he can't do that because he's a drama queen and loves the attention. If you don't wan to get your shots, I don't have an issue with that - but don't whine and cry if you aren't allowed into the stadium this year.

You do realize, of course, that it’s his job.  He’s the one that actually plays the game of football and has to live the punitive NFL Covid protocols.

 

So he’s speaking out about something he disagrees that effects his day to day… he’s confronting his Union representation and the NFL in a public way.  Again - that is his Union, his employer, his day-to-day.  If he wants to call them out for their helicopter mom protocols then he can and should.  That’s what good and honest ppl, that care about the truth, do.

 

And exactly who are the church-dance-level  restrictions protecting?

 

Teammates and coaches and organizational staff that wanted the vaccine have it.  If the medicine works, then it works for the person it is injected to.

 

Teammates and coaches and organizational staff that haven’t been vaccinated have chosen not to be vaccinated.

 

It’s time to live and let live and let go of your imaginary control over what other homosapiens do.

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If the vaccines were perfect, 100% protective, and if everyone could be vaccinated, why indeed?  You'd be Right On.  But they're not.  ~80-88% against the new variant Delta.

 

So there's an equation - you plug in fraction immune, fractional vaccine effectiveness, Ro, and calculate how many immune people are needed before disease transmission chains are more likely to break than propegate. 

 

Vaccinated people are infection chain-breakers.  Unvaccinated, unimmune people are transmitters.  You impact me and mine.  Maybe not directly.  Maybe you attend church with my mom's hairdresser or the unvaccinated nurse's aide who works at my FIL nursing home.  You're infected asymptomatically, you infect them.

 

Then my vaccinated mom or FIL have 12-20% chance of getting infected.  Since they have underlying conditions and maybe their vaccination didn't "take", they might still get very sick.   

 

We hear "let's get back to normal - but I'm not getting vaccinated, if you're afraid, YOU stay home!".  That's seen as shirking your Individual Part to End a Societal Problem.  It's talking about YOU getting back to normal, avoiding inconvenience, and not caring about the transmission chains you might start.

 

That's why some feel resentment towards people who won't get vaccinated.  Me, It Is What It Is.

 

 

No one is strapping people down and injecting them unwillingly. 

 

The guy you're responding to said "The factual best way to end this pandemic is for unvaccinated people to get vaccinated.  Period.  Look at the history of viral diseases that no longer threaten the population."  He's correct, from epidemiology. 

 

That doesn't mean we think it will happen in large numbers.

 

We understand at this point that many people won't get vaccinated.  I'd like you at least understand in return why people who see vaccination as the best and fastest way to return to normal for EVERYONE, might resent people who choose to not get vaccinated.  It's because we see them as impacting our lives.

If. your. medicine. works. then. it. works.

 

I implore you to let go!

[Beerball]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Beasley is hurting the team with his antics. If he can’t follow protocol then he needs to retire now so the team has time to adjust. 

I don’t disagree. The fact that something so fundamental, doing right by your fellow man, has the potential to split this wonderfully talented team is hard on this old man.

[CorkScrewHill]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Illogical.  Because one policy is bad or mistaken does not mean others are, ie, any problem with compulsory military draft doesn't make seatbelt laws bad.

 

Mandatory vaccination laws have been around in the US since the early 19th century.  Have there been side effects and some other early problems, yes.  Do we still have smallpox, polio, congenital rubella syndrome in infants, measles-induced immune amnesia (increases all-cause death in infected kids), measles-induced blindness, mumps-induced encephalitis, meningitis, and orchitis, diptheria, and tetanus. 

 

I think it's gonna be pretty tough sledding for you to craft a reasonable argument that mandatory vaccine laws aka "the government feeling they have the power to dictate people's lives" haven't been an overwhelming net societal benefit, but I'll Hang Up and Listen.

As stated below I am pro-vaccine (my daughter is in the medical field)… but I very much worry when the government mandates pretty much anything. It is a slippery slope. Not everyone gets any vaccine.. religious reasons, etc

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, KennyDavisEyes said:

Ppl that don’t want the vaccine don’t have to get it.

Their choice doesn’t make your medicine work.  If what you injected in your body works then you’re good.

Why do you care so much what others do?

 

But other people's choice DOES make my "medicine" (my vaccination) work!  That's the Point of the herd immunity concept: if a certain number of people are immune, the odds of an infected person meeting a person who can get infection drop low.  Until then, infected people still have good odds to meet someone they can infect.  You can still infect me, even if I'm vaccinated!  If you're vaccinated, you can't.

 

That's the Point.  Your actions affect me.  Your actions DO make "my medicine" work better or worse.

 

You kinda skated on the point that, here in rural Missouri, "Let's Get Back To Normal" with low vaccination rates mean a bunch of people getting sick.  I kind of care about sick people, because, you know, "Oh the Humanity", brother's keeper, etc etc.

 

You?

 

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

WOW … just WOW.

 

Nothing ever bad comes from the government feeling they have the power to dictate people’s lives … maybe we can mandate sterilization.. oh wait we did that in the 1900s as we wanted to eliminate the less desirable based on eugenics .. it was so successful that the Nazi party sent representatives to California to determine how the system worked

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

Next thing you know they'll tell us how fast we can drive, not allow us to rob people, and even make us pay them money to employ people to enforce those rules where will it end?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

As stated below I am pro-vaccine (my daughter is in the medical field)… but I very much worry when the government mandates pretty much anything. It is a slippery slope. Not everyone gets any vaccine.. religious reasons, etc

 

I agree, there's always a concern for checks and balances on all government powers.

 

Straight question: has mandatory vaccination (yes, with exemptions allowed) for smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, and tetanus been a clear overall societal benefit, or not?  Yes or no?

 

[Milanos Milano]

10 minutes ago, Beerball said:

I don’t disagree. The fact that something so fundamental, doing right by your fellow man, has the potential to split this wonderfully talented team is hard on this old man.

It is hard. I have a scientific background, and skepticism based in reason and logic is fine, but what has happened over the last few years is a travesty. People would rather believe in conspiracy theories or would rather see hundreds of thousands of their fellow man die because they rather reach herd immunity naturally. For me it just feels selfish and immature. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by IronMaidenBills

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Straight question: has mandatory vaccination (yes, with exemptions allowed) for smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, and tetanus been a clear overall societal benefit, or not?  Yes or no?

 

I think I know this one!   

[Milanos Milano]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree, there's always a concern for checks and balances on all government powers.

 

Straight question: has mandatory vaccination (yes, with exemptions allowed) for smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, and tetanus been a clear overall societal benefit, or not?  Yes or no?

 

Hands down yes. 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

16 minutes ago, KennyDavisEyes said:

 

Either your medics works for you or it doesn’t.

 

Either you win the lottery or you don't.

 

Either you win at roulette or you don't.

 

Those two things do not have the same odds... but in both cases, you don't know in advance. In both cases, if you play more times, the chance of a win is increased.

 

Same principle applies here. The vaccine should lower my odds of getting serious COVID. Still... I would prefer to be exposed fewer times. The less cases that are in the population, the less likely I will be exposed.

 

We may see serious cases continue to decline which is good for everyone, juat based on immunity levels so far (both natural and vaccine induced). However, if more people chose to get vaccinated, it is more likely that serious cases will continue to decline faster.

 

Unfortunately we are at the point where vaccination levels will plateau. It is what it is.

[Capco]

20 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

WOW … just WOW.

 

Nothing ever bad comes from the government feeling they have the power to dictate people’s lives … maybe we can mandate sterilization.. oh wait we did that in the 1900s as we wanted to eliminate the less desirable based on eugenics .. it was so successful that the Nazi party sent representatives to California to determine how the system worked

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

 

I don't believe I said that nothing bad ever comes from the government.  Unless the people themselves are infallible then a government of the people will never be infallible, either.  

 

The people of that era wanted eugenics, and so they exercised their popular sovereignty to make it happen.  It's easy for us in hindsight to judge their (admittedly gross) misconceptions, but unless you have a better alternative to democratic government, then you're going to have to accept this reality that government can still be beneficial without being perfect in every instance.  

 

Imagine the flipside from the perspective of a pro-eugenics American of that era.  Imagine if the government told them that they knew better than the populace when it came to the horrors of eugenics, and so decided to disregard the will of the people. 

 

In that instance, would you support the government doing the "right" thing (and what is "right" is subjective with the times), or would you support the will of the people?  

[Magox]

34 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Well, the league obviously feels differently. And until further notice, players will just have to live with the inconvenience. Just like they did last year. I don’t feel the need to debate the philosophical aspects of the issue. It’s a waste of time.

You don’t have to debate it, but there is one taking place now and my guess is that there are a lot of players contacting the NFLPA about these dictates/guidelines looking to have it amended/revised.