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What do you expect from our 3rd year players?


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2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Ford-Have we officially given up on him as a tackle, I assume we have.

 

Given the fact that we re-signed Daryl Williams then drafted 2 tackles - yeah, I think we have.  I hope we have.  I think he's a guy that the team mantra of "positional flexibility" does not serve well.

 

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Knox-I will swallow his hand-eye technical help and thin he can improve "his hands".  Clearly has the heart to play the position, will learn to blaock better and know his assignments better (think of the mistakes he made in his first playoff games for the Bills), he certainly wants to improve and think he will.

 

Hope you're right there.

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Year 3 of any NFL players career is when GM's expect the light switch to turn on and see what kind of Pro they can become.  We saw it in the best possible way with Josh Allen and have some pretty big

Oliver - better run defense Ford - stay healthy, stay nasty Singletary - find 3rd gear Knox - look the ball in

I would partially disagree on Ed: so long as he’s disruptive, I would be happy. There are times where pressure leads to a better outcome than a sack.    Ford is a question mark for me. We’ll se

57 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Year 3 of any NFL players career is when GM's expect the light switch to turn on and see what kind of Pro they can become.  We saw it in the best possible way with Josh Allen and have some pretty big position players this year as well.  In my opinion, these players are all fighting for their new contracts this year or could see their replacements drafted soon.  With that, what would you need to see from the following players to justify their 5th year option (Oliver only) or a contract extension next off-season.

 

Ed Oliver (5th year option) - I need to see him deliver on sacks. I'm tired of the pressure ratings and everything else.  If Star and Phillips are both healthy and doing theirs jobs, AND the edge rushers demand attention, Oliver needs to be a difference maker.  I want to see at least 6 sacks and many more pressures.  I want to hear about him commanding double teams.  For a #9 overall pick and the money he would get in that 5th year, I need to see more.  I personally don't think it will happen and his 5th year won't get picked up

 

Cody Ford - Ford has to take firm ownership of the LG position and stay healthy this year if he wants to get paid.  With how they've drafted and how they played without him, I think he has an uphill battle, but I do believe he can be re-signed fairly cheap, so I could see him staying on with us


Devin Singletary - I think Singletary puts up about 500 yards, but in splitting carries with Moss and Breida, I don't think he'll be able to take command of the group.  Singletary will play out his 4 years and most likely be gone, or stay on a cheap deal.

 

Dawson Knox - Besides Oliver, Knox is the second most watched player for me this offseason.  All he has to do is show reliable hands on the easy catches and I think he'll earn an extension.  In this offense however, I don't see him commanding enough balls to get the stats that would get him highly paid, nor have other teams fight us for him.  I believe his strong relationship with Josh will help him (unlike it did Smoke), and he does enough to get a new deal.

 

Thoughts?

 

Good post, thanks.

 

Big Ed: I need to see him deliver consistent pressure up the middle and quality run defense.  I don't like sacks as a metric for DT quality - that was a flaw with Jordan Phillips, he would pursue sacks sometimes at the risk of giving up a big run play or getting an encroachment penalty.  I think Oliver gave Star a big hug because he's well aware the team wants to see more from him, and his ability to perform was limited last year by being asked to play out-of-position at 1T or next to guys whose 1T play wasn't cutting it.

 

Ford: Needs to deliver quality blocking both in pass and run.  His run blocking sucked great wads of mucus at times last year.  Blame injuries, but he seemed to have slow feet (same for Feliciano).  TBH, I wanted us to draft or sign a quality upgrade at interior OL this off-season and failing to do so is my biggest disappointment.

 

Motor:  I don't think the team wants to see higher run production from Motor, but more consistent performance when he gets his reps.

 

Knox: In the words of Xena Warrior Princess, I say to him:  "Don't be Sorry, Gabrielle.  Just...IMPROVE!"    He needs to do more than show reliable hands.  His route running needs to improve.  His blocking needs to improve.  His understanding of his assignments and how they change with post-snap defensive shifts needs to improve.  I hope it does.

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3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Year 3 of any NFL players career is when GM's expect the light switch to turn on and see what kind of Pro they can become.  We saw it in the best possible way with Josh Allen and have some pretty big position players this year as well.  In my opinion, these players are all fighting for their new contracts this year or could see their replacements drafted soon.  With that, what would you need to see from the following players to justify their 5th year option (Oliver only) or a contract extension next off-season.

 

Ed Oliver (5th year option) - I need to see him deliver on sacks. I'm tired of the pressure ratings and everything else.  If Star and Phillips are both healthy and doing theirs jobs, AND the edge rushers demand attention, Oliver needs to be a difference maker.  I want to see at least 6 sacks and many more pressures.  I want to hear about him commanding double teams.  For a #9 overall pick and the money he would get in that 5th year, I need to see more.  I personally don't think it will happen and his 5th year won't get picked up

 

Cody Ford - Ford has to take firm ownership of the LG position and stay healthy this year if he wants to get paid.  With how they've drafted and how they played without him, I think he has an uphill battle, but I do believe he can be re-signed fairly cheap, so I could see him staying on with us


Devin Singletary - I think Singletary puts up about 500 yards, but in splitting carries with Moss and Breida, I don't think he'll be able to take command of the group.  Singletary will play out his 4 years and most likely be gone, or stay on a cheap deal.

 

Dawson Knox - Besides Oliver, Knox is the second most watched player for me this offseason.  All he has to do is show reliable hands on the easy catches and I think he'll earn an extension.  In this offense however, I don't see him commanding enough balls to get the stats that would get him highly paid, nor have other teams fight us for him.  I believe his strong relationship with Josh will help him (unlike it did Smoke), and he does enough to get a new deal.

 

Thoughts?

This is NOT the draft McBeane wants us to look at to see how they are doing. In fact, the only good draft McBeane ever had was in 2017 and yes, I think Beane pulled the strings here, but all the other drafts were weak aside from selecting Mr. Everything, Josh Allen. If the Bills continued to draft as well as they did in 2017, we'd have won a Super Bowl by now and be favorites for this one. Instead we are a second nd class team behind KC and Tampa.

Where Beane has won is Free Agency netting players like Hyde and Poyer, Sanders (Brown) and Beasley, Daryl Williams, Our center,Morse and LG, Feliciano  .... We are weak at TE, DT, and LCB and the DE room is a mess with too much money and not enough production. While Edmunds is a good MLB he is far from a great one and wasn't worth the trade-up.

Make no mistake, the Bills are a very good team, we can beat anyone not named Tampa and KC, but that line between us and the very top is very real. It is questionable as to why McBeane chose not to try to match up with those two clubs.

Will we ever have a better chance? (The reason we couldn't try is probably because we wasted so much money along the DL and drafted iffy at best (not counting 2017).

 

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16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Knox: In the words of Xena Warrior Princess, I say to him:  "Don't be Sorry, Gabrielle.  Just...IMPROVE!"    He needs to do more than show reliable hands.  His route running needs to improve.  His blocking needs to improve.  His understanding of his assignments and how they change with post-snap defensive shifts needs to improve.  I hope it does.

 

The problem with this, is that if anyone is the Xena to Knox's Gabrielle...we all know it's Josh Allen

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1 minute ago, Reader said:

The problem with this, is that if anyone is the Xena to Knox's Gabrielle...we all know it's Josh Allen

 

You don't think Josh Allen would look Knox in the eye after a whiffed blocking assignment blows up a play (or blows him up) and say that?

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Oliver - Was playing out of position a lot last season. With Star back, Oliver should thrive at his normal position.

 

Ford - Got switched from RT and RG as a rookie to LG last year with no preseason to get his feet wet at a new position. Injuries have not been his friend and if the injury bug hits him again this season, it could end his stay in Buffalo.

 

Singletary - Lives up to the saying that RBs are a dime a dozen. It doesn't help him that his OC seems to only call the QBs number when a run is being called.

 

Knox - I have a feeling he'll get beat out as a starter by Hollister, before the season starts or soon after.

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You don't think Josh Allen would look Knox in the eye after a whiffed blocking assignment blows up a play (or blows him up) and say that?

 

Nah I agree with you, I just don't want to imagine JA as Lucy Lawless.

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Hard to imagine Cody and Knox can be difference makers, but if Devin doesn't play even better than his rookie year, say goodbye. Oliver can really benefit from any improvement in the edge rushers with O-lines having to move protections to outside pressure. We really need a breakout season from him. Knox and Ford will be considered busts if they lose their starting spots.

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I really like Oliver, but I think he needs a good supporting cast around him to really shine.  He is not large enough to be a dominant player by himself as other teams can focus on him alone and stifle him.  With Star back and with better DE play, I have high hopes for him this year.

 

Whether that will be enough to justify a very high 5th year option, I don't know.  But with the right cast around him, he can be a special player in year 6 and beyond.

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Excellent thread. I’d actually lump all four of them together and put most of 2020 down to the oddest year in modern history. Let’s see how ALL of them do under more normal circumstances. None of them are horrible, and none of them are stand outs but all of them either are or could be solid veterans on an ever deepening roster. 

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19 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I think Ed and Cody will step up, improve their game and earn a 2nd contract. I don't have that feeling with Devin or Dawson. 

Ford just needs to stay healthy. He has the nasty demeanor that we need on that line. Oliver should be ok with a better edge rush. 
 

Im not convinced Knox will ever learn to catch the ball consistently. And he has had some really bad penalties at the wrong times that tell me he needs better discipline. 
 

As for Singletary…I hope he improves for the simple fact he’s on this team, but I’m pretty much over him. His drops out of the backfield and the lack of speed have me wanting a lot more. I think the team actually feels more comfortable with Moss anyways. 

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21 hours ago, JohnnyK said:

We need all four of those guys to step-up...and then we are talking about a very good football team! 

 

I feel all 4 are solid football players and can do it, but if not they should be sent packing. 

The money is going to get tight for the Bills very soon.

 

Go Bills!

It Would be great if these 4 added another level to their play -and don’t forget Sweeney.. But what this thread -and many folks-are overlooking is Last Years Draft haul. EVERY SINGLE DRAFT PICK made the team during a global pandemic on an already great team and contributed to the finest season since the 4 SBs. It’s nothing short of phenomenal!

How many of ‘20 Draft picks will take a big step up in their 2nd season?

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its so strange to see the takes on these players many are exact opposite from what i think

 

oliver is solid. it can't be discounted he was asked to play 1 tech last year which is not his body type or works to his strengths.  a 3 tech whos able to explode and penetrate. still performed admerably. my biggest concern is we did not draft or get a true 1 tech backup. star is it. if he goes down we are once again asking oliver to fill in, lose the "important" splash stats and have many people declaring bust. hopefully phillips is developing into a solid 1 tech and is the reason they neglected a important role in the D scheme that are 1 injury away from losing. effecting the entire D success.

 

cody. i agree with this one. he will never be a tackle and put most our lack of run game, not on our backs..but poor blocking. i find it pretty strange that the one true strength we had was our tackles and yet we went heavy on tackles that really have no chance to convert to guards in the draft. maybe we can push our tackles inside if our interior struggles again but they wont like it and putting rookies on the outside is going to be rough no matter how you slice it. hoping the interior is vastly improved for run blocking.

 

singletary. alot of people have issue with his home run speed. i dont and dont think the coaches do either. see above why i think our run game stunk. what i really think matters is Singletarys blocking. its why he beefed up so much this offseason. he HAS to improve it or he will get pulled/less plays under moss. hopefully his dedication to improving his weakness has not effected his strength, quick flinch reaction change of direction

 

knox..again i think coaches are more concerned about his blocking. hopefully he works on any drop issues and has improved rout running but. i believe the coaches are more concerned about his blocking and why they are interested in a well rounded vet so much.

 

my 2 cents on the players

 

 

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On 6/18/2021 at 8:52 AM, Virgil said:

Year 3 of any NFL players career is when GM's expect the light switch to turn on and see what kind of Pro they can become.  We saw it in the best possible way with Josh Allen and have some pretty big position players this year as well.  In my opinion, these players are all fighting for their new contracts this year or could see their replacements drafted soon.  With that, what would you need to see from the following players to justify their 5th year option (Oliver only) or a contract extension next off-season.

 

Ed Oliver (5th year option) - I need to see him deliver on sacks. I'm tired of the pressure ratings and everything else.  If Star and Phillips are both healthy and doing theirs jobs, AND the edge rushers demand attention, Oliver needs to be a difference maker.  I want to see at least 6 sacks and many more pressures.  I want to hear about him commanding double teams.  For a #9 overall pick and the money he would get in that 5th year, I need to see more.  I personally don't think it will happen and his 5th year won't get picked up

 

Cody Ford - Ford has to take firm ownership of the LG position and stay healthy this year if he wants to get paid.  With how they've drafted and how they played without him, I think he has an uphill battle, but I do believe he can be re-signed fairly cheap, so I could see him staying on with us


Devin Singletary - I think Singletary puts up about 500 yards, but in splitting carries with Moss and Breida, I don't think he'll be able to take command of the group.  Singletary will play out his 4 years and most likely be gone, or stay on a cheap deal.

 

Dawson Knox - Besides Oliver, Knox is the second most watched player for me this offseason.  All he has to do is show reliable hands on the easy catches and I think he'll earn an extension.  In this offense however, I don't see him commanding enough balls to get the stats that would get him highly paid, nor have other teams fight us for him.  I believe his strong relationship with Josh will help him (unlike it did Smoke), and he does enough to get a new deal.

 

Thoughts?

Knox is a tough guy who is pretty fast as well. But I dont think a person can learn how to catch a football at 25 yrs old He is what he is. 

I see Singletary improving.His problem is lack of breakaway speed plus he goes down too easily. At his height and being over 200 LBs he should be blasting for extra yards more often after the hit.This is one of the few areas that RBs can improve on with age.

Cody Ford is a guy with the potential to be an elite OL. Expect great improvement/consistency this yr.

Ed Oliver...Thats a tough one. I would like to see the coaches put him in a position that isnt pure nose tackle more often. Unless he gains 20 LBs(and would that slow him down?) he just doesnt have the size to be a NT in  this league.

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Pure dominance. All-Pro and Hall of Fame levels of play, otherwise all these dudes are busts and Beane is an incompetent GM and should be fired. 
 

Nah, but over all the years I’ve hung around the Bills forums, whether this one or the old official one, it seems like some people genuinely have those expectations. As usual, you’ve gotta put everything into context.

 

Ed Oliver - Had a solid rookie year, and I believe last year he was probably asked to do some different things since Lotulelei wasn’t there. And they also shuffled the line rotations and changed up their attack after they got spanked against the run a few times, so when you’re making changes and trying to find the best combinations for the rotation you’re gonna have a few bumps in the road. They expect big things from him though, and hopefully this season their DL is where they want it so they can put Ed in the role they want which is QB pressure and sacks from the interior. I hope he has a breakout year. 
 

Cody Ford - If he stays healthy he’s gonna have every opportunity to win a starting job. At best, he’s a starting guard, at worst he can be a swing tackle/guard. I’m sure they’d like one of their second round picks that they traded up for to work out and become a starter and not go the way of the Zay. But, if someone like Bates or Lamp make huge strides and straight up outplay him, I can see a situation where Beane trades him to an OL-needy team.

 

Devin Singletary - I’m not as down about him as some have been. The run game issues go beyond the backs, the OL seemed to really struggle to open lanes and get to the second level. That could be attributed to how the OL was shuffled around last season due to injury. Dawkins was the only OL to start every game. Feliciano couldn’t go until mid-season, Ford was hurt, Quinton Spain petered out and was shown the door, Mitch Morse missed a couple games, etc. This season, hopefully they solidify their starting five early so they can have time to get things down. There are certainly enough talented OL for them to have a solid line. Zack Moss being in and out of the lineup didn’t help either. Not to make excuses for 26 but his role is/should be more of a change of pace kinda back who can turn a screen into a big gain because he works best in space where he can make guys miss. His cuts are crazy, his contact balance is really good and so is his vision. He has a lot of great qualities for a running back but he does lack the size and speed, which is why they drafted Moss. I think the plan was to have Moss be the in between the tackles guy and Singletary in the aforementioned role. If everything falls into place, I.e. everyone is healthy and playing the role planned for them then I think we’ll see a solid uptick the run game.

 

Dawson Knox - He’s my breakout player for them this season. I think he finally puts it all together and starts making the easy catches he’s been known to drop here and there. He’s another player that was affected by health and injuries and missed time during the season. He also didn’t switch to TE until he got to Ole Miss and then he played in an offense with AJ Brown and DK Metcalf, so they didn’t exactly feature the TE when they had those guys. So it’s taken him some time to really pin down all the nuances of the position, I’m sure. The talent is there, the coaching is there, just stay healthy and put it all together. 

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On 6/18/2021 at 12:43 PM, billybrew1 said:

This is NOT the draft McBeane wants us to look at to see how they are doing. In fact, the only good draft McBeane ever had was in 2017 and yes, I think Beane pulled the strings here, but all the other drafts were weak aside from selecting Mr. Everything, Josh Allen. If the Bills continued to draft as well as they did in 2017, we'd have won a Super Bowl by now and be favorites for this one. Instead we are a second nd class team behind KC and Tampa.

Where Beane has won is Free Agency netting players like Hyde and Poyer, Sanders (Brown) and Beasley, Daryl Williams, Our center,Morse and LG, Feliciano  .... We are weak at TE, DT, and LCB and the DE room is a mess with too much money and not enough production. While Edmunds is a good MLB he is far from a great one and wasn't worth the trade-up.

Make no mistake, the Bills are a very good team, we can beat anyone not named Tampa and KC, but that line between us and the very top is very real. It is questionable as to why McBeane chose not to try to match up with those two clubs.

Will we ever have a better chance? (The reason we couldn't try is probably because we wasted so much money along the DL and drafted iffy at best (not counting 2017).

 

I was thinking about this a little further and remembering how great the DT class was supposed to be that year and looking now we aren't the only ones to draft a DT that fell below his draft status so far. Neither are the jets or Miami thrilled with their DTs; so we are not alone anyways..... What can you do? It's not like we drafted the only dud here and Oliver isn't a bust at least....

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On 6/18/2021 at 11:52 AM, Virgil said:

Year 3 of any NFL players career is when GM's expect the light switch to turn on and see what kind of Pro they can become.  We saw it in the best possible way with Josh Allen and have some pretty big position players this year as well.  In my opinion, these players are all fighting for their new contracts this year or could see their replacements drafted soon.  With that, what would you need to see from the following players to justify their 5th year option (Oliver only) or a contract extension next off-season.

 

Ed Oliver (5th year option) - I need to see him deliver on sacks. I'm tired of the pressure ratings and everything else.  If Star and Phillips are both healthy and doing theirs jobs, AND the edge rushers demand attention, Oliver needs to be a difference maker.  I want to see at least 6 sacks and many more pressures.  I want to hear about him commanding double teams.  For a #9 overall pick and the money he would get in that 5th year, I need to see more.  I personally don't think it will happen and his 5th year won't get picked up

 

Cody Ford - Ford has to take firm ownership of the LG position and stay healthy this year if he wants to get paid.  With how they've drafted and how they played without him, I think he has an uphill battle, but I do believe he can be re-signed fairly cheap, so I could see him staying on with us


Devin Singletary - I think Singletary puts up about 500 yards, but in splitting carries with Moss and Breida, I don't think he'll be able to take command of the group.  Singletary will play out his 4 years and most likely be gone, or stay on a cheap deal.

 

Dawson Knox - Besides Oliver, Knox is the second most watched player for me this offseason.  All he has to do is show reliable hands on the easy catches and I think he'll earn an extension.  In this offense however, I don't see him commanding enough balls to get the stats that would get him highly paid, nor have other teams fight us for him.  I believe his strong relationship with Josh will help him (unlike it did Smoke), and he does enough to get a new deal.

 

Thoughts?

Oliver was stuck playing 1 tech a good share of the time last season, but you're right of course.  He needs to start showing up on the stat sheet.  II don't expect he'll be taking many reps at 1 tech this season with Phillips healthy finally and Lotulelei back.

 

Ford can't be blamed for a lost season (to injury).  I expect he will be better than Boettger, but I'd like to see a lot better.

 

The Bills, as you suggest, will have Singletary split carries.  They have decided to go with a committee approach.  What I want to see is a little more variety when they do run the ball, and fewer occasions where they get stuffed.  Some of that is on the offensive line.   Brieda's speed will help the outside run game, which was awful last season.

 

I agree that Knox mainly needs to be more consistent.  I think, however, that Buffalo expects Hollister to have a pretty significant role this season too.  It's going to be something of a committee approach at TE too.

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