Falcons trading Julio Jones to Titans

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

SO wait it needs to be played out on in games for KC, but the Bills got Immensely better because they replaced Brown with Sanders and drafted a bunch on the D-line without playing a snap

 

This is what's commonly called a "Straw Man" in an argument - you make up something and ascribe that viewpoint to the person you're responding to in a discussion.  

 

Find and quote where I have made that argument.

 

For that matter find and quote where anyone has said "the Bills have gotten immensely better because they replaced Brown with Sanders and drafted a bunch on the D-line". 

 

Thanks

 

[NewEra]

55 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Naaaa I just think Scott laws irritating

I do to, but that doesn’t mean everything he says is wrong.  This offseason, I found myself agreeing with more than ever.  In most cases, it revolves around bills fans putting our team on a pedestal that it has yet to earn a place on imo.  Josh Allen will likely earn us a place on the pedestal, but the rest of the team has major flaws.  

 

Our RBs are meh.  Our TEs are bleh, our run blocking is bleh, our pass rush was meh, our run D was meh against teams that weren’t one dimensional, our pass d was meh.  We have one good CB in a passing driven league (thank god for our safeties).  Our coaching staffs kryptonite seems to be the chiefs coaching staff. 
 

we have lots to look forward to thanks to 17 and McB.   
 

 

[eball]

37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

As of now, we’ve been great for one year. I’m not saying that we will flame out.  I predict 10+ years of being a SB contender.

 

our OL is a work in progress and I see potential holes in our d. Same can be said for every team.  The chiefs destroyed us last year.  

 

We have different definitions of "destroyed."  In the AFCCG Buffalo had no healthy WRs yet Josh got us into the red zone repeatedly.  Just couldn't punch it in.  Defensively we had no answers for Hill and Kelce, I agree, but it was not "destruction" in my opinion, and I think things could certainly change this year.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, eball said:

 

We have different definitions of "destroyed."  In the AFCCG Buffalo had no healthy WRs yet Josh got us into the red zone repeatedly.  Just couldn't punch it in.  Defensively we had no answers for Hill and Kelce, I agree, but it was not "destruction" in my opinion, and I think things could certainly change this year.

We had banged up WRs and the chiefs had 4 backup OL that manhandled our DL.  You don’t think the KC offense destroyed our defense?  

 

Idk man, looks like the chiefs offense completely obliterated our D after the first drive.  I read a stat that said we had a defender within 1 yard of the chief pass catcher on TWO of their 28 completions.  Our defense was no match.  Our corners looked like Jv players.  Edmunds was in no mans land the entire game.  Mahomes was just manipulating his every move.  
 

agree to disagree.  Minus the 9-0 lead we had, they destroyed us in the afccg

[eball]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We had banged up WRs and the chiefs had 4 backup OL that manhandled our DL.  You don’t think the KC offense destroyed our defense?  

 

Idk man, looks like the chiefs offense completely obliterated our D after the first drive.  I read a stat that said we had a defender within 1 yard of the chief pass catcher on TWO of their 28 completions.  Our defense was no match.  Our corners looked like Jv players.  Edmunds was in no mans land the entire game.  Mahomes was just manipulating his every move.  
 

agree to disagree.  Minus the 9-0 lead we had, they destroyed us in the afccg

 

We don't have to re-live that game...our defense had no answers and it was one of McD's poorer coaching efforts.  That said, the keys to the game were the Bills' drives at the end of the 2nd quarter and beginning of the 3rd...I look at that drive sheet and think, "wow, neither defense was really stopping anyone."  Anyway, on to a new year.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I'll be honest, I honestly still think that the Colts are the team to beat out of the South this year. The Titans are dangerous to us because we are particularly weak to the run game but the Colts are more balanced and I honestly think have a better HC and QB. If the Titans want to blow that money and draft capital to be second in their division, let them.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Ok… so ON PAPER, a team that dominated us twice last season arguably got better.

 

You really ought to explore their defensive gains and losses as part of that conclusion.

 

I'm not saying they didn't, I'm just saying that looking at the OL and saying "ooooooh, scary!" is not a very complete argument when there are 3 phases to the game, and even the most adamant "Offense is where it's At" arguers will agree that defense does still matter.

 

Last year the Chiefs defense was 10th in the league on points, 16th on yards, and last in the red zone:

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/29966/kansas-city-chiefs-prioritizing-league-worst-red-zone-defense

 

How has that been at least maintained and (for their fans) hopefully improved?  The Chiefs lost two DE, a starting LB and CB (Kpassagnon, Okafor, Wilson, and Breeland).  They added Jarran Reed at DT from the SeaSnakes.  They added a LB in the 2nd round and a DE in the 4th round. 

 

Some people would say maybe that's not enough.

 

My point is you can't just look at one aspect of one side of the ball and say "woooo, they got better!".

 

 

[Watkins101]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Please comment on the other changes on the Chiefs if you wish to go there (defensive gains and losses).  Thanks.

 

The Chiefs revamped their OL.  It had to be done.  On paper, it looks much improved, but it remains to be seen how it will play out in games.  Remember when "on paper the Bills had the best DL in the league" after we signed Mario Williams?  I'm sure you do.  Same thing applies - football games are played on turf and grass on Sunday, not on paper in June.

For a couple years we did have one of the best D lines in the league. We had  Over 50 sacks (most in the league one year), and one year we had all 4 starters have double digit sacks. When it came to pressure, we were the best, it was just the run game that was not as good, and that was partially because our linebackers were not very good.

[ProcessYaDigg]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:21 PM, WMDman said:

Better than being traded to the Pats

Eh.  i'd almost rather him go to the Pats.  They're not contenders anymore and I'm not worried about their QB situation.  Tannehill is better then the QBs on the Pats roster IMO.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

My point is you can't just look at one aspect of one side of the ball and say "woooo, they got better!".

 

Sure you can.  Is there a rule that you need to be rational on this board?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Sure you can.  Is there a rule that you need to be rational on this board?

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I was an honors math major. I did proves with irrational imaginary numbers in non-base 10 mathematics.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Watkins101 said:

For a couple years we did have one of the best D lines in the league. We had  Over 50 sacks (most in the league one year), and one year we had all 4 starters have double digit sacks. When it came to pressure, we were the best, it was just the run game that was not as good, and that was partially because our linebackers were not very good.

 

So we did, but that wasn't in 2012 when we signed Mario Williams and people were talking about "best Dline in football"

 

It seems Dave Wannstache wasn't the guy to put a strong D together.  The D improved the following year when Pettine took over and improved more under Schwartz.

And it wasn't just linebackers - Pettine at the time tended to run a gambling-type D that enabled sacks by bringing a lot of pressure, but at the cost of run D sometimes.  IMO.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You really ought to explore their defensive gains and losses as part of that conclusion.

 

I'm not saying they didn't, I'm just saying that looking at the OL and saying "ooooooh, scary!" is not a very complete argument when there are 3 phases to the game, and even the most adamant "Offense is where it's At" arguers will agree that defense does still matter.

 

Last year the Chiefs defense was 10th in the league on points, 16th on yards, and last in the red zone:

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/29966/kansas-city-chiefs-prioritizing-league-worst-red-zone-defense

 

How has that been at least maintained and (for their fans) hopefully improved?  The Chiefs lost two DE, a starting LB and CB (Kpassagnon, Okafor, Wilson, and Breeland).  They added Jarran Reed at DT from the SeaSnakes.  They added a LB in the 2nd round and a DE in the 4th round. 

 

Some people would say maybe that's not enough.

 

My point is you can't just look at one aspect of one side of the ball and say "woooo, they got better!".

 

 

If you just look at talent gained vs talent lost, the chiefs are in the plus imo.

 

Players lost-

Anthony Sherman Fullback- replaced by Michael Burton- chiefs rarely use FB- minimal impact

 

Eric Fisher Tackle- injured and replaced by Orlando Brown- upgraded

Mitchell Schwartz Tackle- missed most of 2020- remmers replaced him last year and will do it again this year.

 

Austin Reiter Center- below average center- replaced by Austin Blythe and Creed Humphrey-  upgraded

 

Damien Williams Running Back- 3rd string- replaced by Jared mckinnnon- wash

 

Sammy Watkins Wide Receiver- missed almost 1/2 the season and all of the playoffs minus a few SB snaps- best wr added is Cornell powell, decent prospect but sammy is better.....too bad he never played.  

 

Tanoh Kpassagnon Defensive End-  below average starter-  added Josh Kaindoh-  they got slightly worse- taco Charlton will start 

Damien Wilson Linebacker-  below average starter- replaced by Nick Bolton-  he’ll probably be their starting mlb for the next several seasons.  Upgrade 

 

Bashaud Breeland Cornerback- average CB- best cb additions are 2 former 1st rd pick Mike Hughes and deandre baker.  Probably a loss as of now, but might be an upgrade if they fit the scheme.  

Notable Chiefs Free Agents:
Le’Veon Bell – Running Back-  rarely played 
Kelechi Osemele – Offensive Lineman-  injured most of the year- 
Alex Okafor – Defensive End- he’s just not very good. 
 

This was their starting OL for most of the season 

LT Eric Fisher -  replaced by Orlando Brown

LG Nick Allegretti -  replaced by Joe Thuney

C Austin Reiter - replaced by Creed Humphrey

RG- Andrew Wylie - replaced by Kyle Long and Duvernay-Tardiff

RT Mike remmers- returning 

 

Massive upgrades along the OL.  I didn’t hear one person say that the Chiefs lost the SB because of their defense.  They lost because of their OL.  Last seasons Poor OL handled our pass rush just fine.  We had little to no pressure on Mahomes in either meeting.  Now their OL is better.  It is.....regardless of “we don’t know how well they are going to gel”. “We haven’t seen them play together, OL need time”.  Yeah, they do and by the time the playoffs come around, their OL will be better than last years OL, barring lots of injuries.  
 

The talent level across the OL is MUCH better than last year.  The possible downgrade with losing breeland and kpassagnon could hamper the D some.  They chiefs might suffer slight downgrades at DE2 and CB2, but they improved at MLB (Bolton) and DT2 (Reed).  They take a loss at wr with powell replacing Sammy, but they couldn’t count on sammy and they didn’t lose in the playoffs until he suited up. 

 

We won’t have any answers until the season is over, but based on talent added vs talent lost, I think the chiefs ended up in the plus by a fair amount.  IF this OL plays up to its potential, the chiefs offense will likely be as close to unstoppable as we’ve seen, barring major injuries.  
 

time will tell, but they attacked their biggest weakness head on and looks like a major upgrade on paper.  
 

The bills had 3 major problems- pass rush, run game, CB2.  We addressed the pass rush in the draft and Obada.  I have no clue how much better our pass rush will be.  Could be slightly better.  Could be much better.  Eager to see how the 3 kids do.  The OL is the same for 2021, so Breida and scheme change are the additions.  Cb2 is the same + Wildgoose.

 

I think both team improved, with the chiefs additions likely paying higher dividends in 2021 and the Bills paying higher in the long term.  
 

jmo of course.  I think I chimed in because o think it’s weird when people say “but it remains to be seen how it pans out” in the offseason.  The same can be said for literally every transaction ever.  But this is the offseason and we can only judge based on what we know about players performances in the past.  “But it remains to be seen how it plays out” is a given in every offseason conversation regarding player transactions.  Based on what we can actually discuss, the chiefs have greatly improved their OL and look to have 2 upgrades and 2 downgrades on D.  

 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

eball: “It was not a destruction”. 

 

New Era:  shows image of Chiefs punting the ball once all game 

eball: “We don’t need to relive the game.

I'm sorry,I just got a chuckle out of this for some reason. Anyway, Just for the record and my 2 cents, I guess one could say Chiefs didn't destroy Bills as far as looking at the final score, but they basically had their way with the Bills nearly the whole game.

 

In the AFCCG, directly after Chiefs muffed the punt return and Bills only got 3 points off it, they whooped Bills up and down the field on both sides of the ball. Was rather disappointing.....but hopefully Bills have learned and can take them down this go round., because I assure you they will be the team to beat (without any major injuries) to get to the Super Bowl.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Putin]

20 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

This makes the AFC that much more interesting. The Titans are going to own the AFCS this season. And we are going to own the AFCE. And week six is going to be one helluva game in Tennessee. I plan on being there.

AFC was interesting enough without Jones going to the Titans 

[UConn James]

From the Facebook 😄:

 

[Patrick Duffy]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They mopped the floor with the Bills...... the only reason they did only punt once was because Hill dropped a perfectly thrown ball 30 plus yards down the field on 3rd down. 
 

It was absolutely a destruction..... no need to sugarcoat the loss. Call it like it is....doesn’t mean they’ll get destroyed this season. 

I didn't sugar coat it, and I did call it what it was. I said they whooped the Bills on both sides the ball. I was agreeing with you dude 😳

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

If you just look at talent gained vs talent lost, the chiefs are in the plus imo.

 

And that's a fair assessment.  I'm just tired of people looking at the Chief's OL overhaul and saying "oh noes, they massively improved at every position".  I understand and appreciate that's not what you're saying.  We agree that the Chiefs appear to have massively upgraded their OL and didn't lose substantial talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

My questions are on defense.

 

Editing for focus:

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Tanoh Kpassagnon Defensive End-  below average starter-  added Josh Kaindoh-  they got slightly worse- taco Charlton will start 

 

Most people would say if you're counting on a 4th round draft pick at DE to play, it could be more than slightly worse.

Taco Charleton wasn't beating out "below average" Kpassagnon to start before he broke his leg, and now there's a question of how fast Charlton will get back to full form. 

 

Kpassagnon was splitting reps with Okafor and rookie Michael Danna.  They may like Danna.  But can we agree that at best, it's a questionmark, and could be a downgrade?

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Damien Wilson Linebacker-  below average starter- replaced by Nick Bolton-  he’ll probably be their starting mlb for the next several seasons.  Upgrade 

 

Again, if you're expecting a 2nd round rookie to come in and start...it's no sure thing that he can do the job, much less be an upgrade.

 

Can we agree that at best it's a questionmark, and could be a downgrade?

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Bashaud Breeland Cornerback- average CB- best cb additions are 2 former 1st rd pick Mike Hughes and Deandre baker.  Probably a loss as of now, but might be an upgrade if they fit the scheme.  

 

So typically teams that are happy with the play of former 1st round picks don't decline their option then flip them to another team for the swap of a 6th and 7th round pick.  Hughes thing was inavailability.  ACL injury ended his rookie season, neck injury ended 2019 and limited 2020.  Maybe Hughes will stay healthy and play.  Or maybe he won't. 

 

Deandre Baker saw defensive snaps in 1 game last year - week 17 - and broke his femur.

 

If they're counting on a guy whose draft team flipped him for a late-round pick exchange or a guy who played half a game with the scrubs and became the 2nd NFL player to break his femur, can we agree that at best it's a questionmark and could be a downgrade? 

 

You seem to have missed the Chiefs adding DT Jarren Reed from Seattle as a FA, which I think is a significant move for their interior pass rush. (edit: no I see you mentioned him later on).

 

I think the point is, when there are question marks at 3 important defensive positions, there are reasonable questions as to whether the team stayed the same, much less improved.

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Massive upgrades along the OL.  I didn’t hear one person say that the Chiefs lost the SB because of their defense.  They lost because of their OL.

 

Well, maybe one person should have said that the Chiefs lost the SB because of their defense.  They gave up 3 TD for a score of 21-6 at the half, 28-9 just afterwards, with no help from KC turnovers at that point.  Now part of it was, the zebras weren't letting KC get away with their "sticky" coverage.   But part of it was they just struggled to cover a team with a good run D and TE that kept them out of dime.  Now obviously if KC was scoring 5 or 6 TD while giving up 4, that's one way to handle it, so the offense had a big contribution.

 

But when KC was last - last - in the league at red zone defense, and when they just gave up a bunch of points on no turnovers in the Superbowl, that seems to me like a pretty strong argument for saying their defense needed work, and it's not entirely clear to me that it got it. 

 

The link I included above had Spagnuolo fingering "mental mistakes" for the red zone problems.  Maybe he's right.  Maybe they'll just focus or practice or whatever and they'll be fierce and fearsome.

 

But it's certainly a questionmark.

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

 Last seasons Poor OL handled our pass rush just fine.  We had little to no pressure on Mahomes in either meeting.  Now their OL is better.  It is.....regardless of “we don’t know how well they are going to gel”. “We haven’t seen them play together, OL need time”.  Yeah, they do and by the time the playoffs come around, their OL will be better than last years OL, barring lots of injuries.  

 

It may be, but I look at it this way.  Because of Mahomes unique talent, their OL just had to be "good enough".  I'm not sure how much better "good to great" on OL will give KC's offense.  Their OL got the job done last season until the Superbowl, when they had 3 guys playing out of position and just got pwn'd.

 

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

We won’t have any answers until the season is over, but based on talent added vs talent lost, I think the chiefs ended up in the plus by a fair amount.  IF this OL plays up to its potential, the chiefs offense will likely be as close to unstoppable as we’ve seen, barring major injuries.  

 

So it's a perfectly reasonable take to feel that the Chiefs OL rebuild has them on the "plus" side in the talent overall.

 

It's also a reasonable take to feel that the Chiefs may have some gaps and questionmarks defensively that may counter-balance their improvement at OL, and to wonder how much impact going from (say) good to great will really have on their offensive game.  

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

The bills had 3 major problems- pass rush, run game, CB2.  We addressed the pass rush in the draft and Obada.  I have no clue how much better our pass rush will be.  Could be slightly better.  Could be much better.  Eager to see how the 3 kids do.

 

Agree.  As far as CB2, the Bills appear to like Dane Jackson.  If you're counting two former 1st round picks returning from injuries and a DE returning from a broken leg as just "slightly worse" or "might be an upgrade", I don't know why you wouldn't be positive about the Bills CB2 being a young player who saw most of the snaps in 3 games and looked very good.  No, CB2 is not the same - we had Norman, who we let walk, so CB2 went from Wallace/Norman to Wallace/Jackson with Wildgoose as a ...wild card.

 

The other question besides pass rush is whether Star Lotulelei and a healthier Harrison Phillips will allow Oliver/Butler to return to the 1T and make a difference to the interior pass rush.  The Bills evidently think the answer is "yes", but there are questions there, of course.

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

 The OL is the same for 2021

 

Not the same.  The same players were on the roster - on IR.  If you're thinking pencilled-in OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Mongo-Williams, they were never all on the field together last season.   In addition, the Bills moved on from Winters and added Lamp (Chargers) and Douglas (Tenn) at guard, and drafted Anderson, to give themselves more choices at guard.  It's not signing Joe Thuney, but if the Bills decided that the OL was a lot of the run game issue, it's not 1) the same OL 2) without options

 

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I think both team improved, with the chiefs additions likely paying higher dividends in 2021 and the Bills paying higher in the long term.

 

Fair take.

 

The Bills have a number of places where, as far as whether and how much they improved, we're definitely in "time will tell" land.  Pass rush - interior DL - CB.

Whether the OL was the problem with the run game and whether we can put the 5 "best guys" on the field at the same time (or whether an option will work out) and whether that will fix it.

 

I don't disagree at all that KC looks like it did a great job overhauling its OL, my point is that they aren't without their own significant areas of "time will tell" -land in addition to the question of whether the OL that looks great on paper will look great on the field.

 

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And that's a fair assessment.  I'm just tired of people looking at the Chief's OL overhaul and saying "oh noes, they massively improved at every position".  I understand and appreciate that's not what you're saying.  We agree that the Chiefs appear to have massively upgraded their OL and didn't lose substantial talent on the offensive side of the ball.

👍🏻

My questions are on defense.

 

Editing for focus:

 

Most people would say if you're counting on a 4th round draft pick at DE to play, it could be more than slightly worse.

Taco Charleton wasn't beating out "below average" Kpassagnon to start before he broke his leg, and now there's a question of how fast Charlton will get back to full form. 
 

 

 

Kpassagnon was splitting reps with Okafor and rookie Michael Danna.  They may like Danna.  But can we agree that at best, it's a questionmark, and could be a downgrade?

I said they got slightly worse, but let’s not act like Kpassagnon and Okafor are even average players.  Kpassagnon signed for 2.25M per year, slightly above the minimum.  Okafor might be out of the nfl.  Both easily replaceable.  

 

Quote

 

 

Again, if you're expecting a 2nd round rookie to come in and start...it's no sure thing that he can do the job, much less be an upgrade.

 

Can we agree that at best it's a questionmark, and could be a downgrade?

Nick Bolton is better than Damian Wilson. Dude signed a 1 year 2M with jax.  Bolton was projected by some as a first rd pick and plays a position that many come in right away, start and play well. He’s an instinctual lb that knows how to call a d and lead his team.  Wilson was their 2nd best lb, Bolton will likely be their best LB out of the gates. It’s an upgrade in my book.  Agree to disagree. 
 

If Bolton isn’t seen as an upgrade than im not sure how we could say we improved  our pass rush with Rousseau and Basham
 

 

Quote

 

 

So typically teams that are happy with the play of former 1st round picks don't decline their option then flip them to another team for the swap of a 6th and 7th round pick.  Hughes thing was inavailability.  ACL injury ended his rookie season, neck injury ended 2019 and limited 2020.  Maybe Hughes will stay healthy and play.  Or maybe he won't. 

 

Deandre Baker saw defensive snaps in 1 game last year - week 17 - and broke his femur.

 

If they're counting on a guy whose draft team flipped him for a late-round pick exchange or a guy who played half a game with the scrubs and became the 2nd NFL player to break his femur, can we agree that at best it's a questionmark and could be a downgrade? 
 

I said it was probably a downgrade to start the season but we’ll see.  Both corners are talented and breeland is a holding/illegal contact machine.  I’ll agree that it’s a downgrade as of now.

Quote

 

You seem to have missed the Chiefs adding DT Jarren Reed from Seattle as a FA, which I think is a significant move for their interior pass rush. (edit: no I see you mentioned him later on).

 

I think the point is, when there are question marks at 3 important defensive positions, there are reasonable questions as to whether the team stayed the same, much less improved.

I don’t see downgrades @ 3 positions.  I see a slight downgrade @ DE and a slight downgrade @ Cb. I see an upgrade @ LB and DT2. (Bolton and Reed).  

Quote

 

 

Well, maybe one person should have said that the Chiefs lost the SB because of their defense.  They gave up 3 TD for a score of 21-6 at the half, 28-9 just afterwards, with no help from KC turnovers at that point.  Now part of it was, the zebras weren't letting KC get away with their "sticky" coverage.   But part of it was they just struggled to cover a team with a good run D and TE that kept them out of dime.  Now obviously if KC was scoring 5 or 6 TD while giving up 4, that's one way to handle it, so the offense had a big contribution.

 

But when KC was last - last - in the league at red zone defense, and when they just gave up a bunch of points on no turnovers in the Superbowl, that seems to me like a pretty strong argument for saying their defense needed work, and it's not entirely clear to me that it got it. 

 

The link I included above had Spagnuolo fingering "mental mistakes" for the red zone problems.  Maybe he's right.  Maybe they'll just focus or practice or whatever and they'll be fierce and fearsome.

 

But it's certainly a questionmark.

if you think the chiefs lost the SB because of defense, I’ll vehemently disagree and question what you watched. The defense wasn’t good.  The OL may have been the worst entire unit play in SB history. As in, there’s never been a unit that played as bad as the KC OL did in the SB. 

Quote

 

 

It may be, but I look at it this way.  Because of Mahomes unique talent, their OL just had to be "good enough".  I'm not sure how much better "good to great" on OL will give KC's offense.  Their OL got the job done last season until the Superbowl, when they had 3 guys playing out of position and just got pwn'd.

 

 

 

So it's a perfectly reasonable take to feel that the Chiefs OL rebuild has them on the "plus" side in the talent overall.

 

It's also a reasonable take to feel that the Chiefs may have some gaps and questionmarks defensively that may counter-balance their improvement at OL, and to wonder how much impact going from (say) good to great will really have on their offensive game.

 

I agree, the chiefs have some gaps on D.  One could argue that we have similar gaps on d.  Did you see what the chiefs did to us?  They’re O completely dominated our d the second we went up 9-0.   It’s true 

 

Quote

 

 

Agree.  As far as CB2, the Bills appear to like Dane Jackson.  If you're counting two former 1st round picks returning from injuries and a DE returning from a broken leg as just "slightly worse" or "might be an upgrade", I don't know why you wouldn't be positive about the Bills CB2 being a young player who saw most of the snaps in 3 games and looked very good.  No, CB2 is not the same - we had Norman, who we let walk, so CB2 went from Wallace/Norman to Wallace/Jackson with Wildgoose as a ...wild card.

jackson was on the team last season.  He’s not an addition.  Not sure why I would count him as one. That’s like saying The chiefs upgraded at Cb because sneed will be starting now instead of playing in sub packages.  Sneed is better than breeland 

Quote

 

The other question besides pass rush is whether Star Lotulelei and a healthier Harrison Phillips will allow Oliver/Butler to return to the 1T and make a difference to the interior pass rush.  The Bills evidently think the answer is "yes", but there are questions there, of course.

 

doesn’t seem like we give a crap about 1T and that sucks.  I don’t expect much from star, but I’ll give us an upgrade because hes back

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Not the same.  The same players were on the roster - on IR.  If you're thinking pencilled-in OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Mongo-Williams, they were never all on the field together last season.   In addition, the Bills moved on from Winters and added Lamp (Chargers) and Douglas (Tenn) at guard, and drafted Anderson, to give themselves more choices at guard.  It's not signing Joe Thuney, but if the Bills decided that the OL was a lot of the run game issue, it's not 1) the same OL 2) without options

 

oh yeah, Cody Ford.....he’s been great.  No. He’s been bad.  I think Boettger is better.  I don’t see our OL being much diffferent.  Agree to disagree.

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Fair take.

 

The Bills have a number of places where, as far as whether and how much they improved, we're definitely in "time will tell" land.  Pass rush - interior DL - CB.

Whether the OL was the problem with the run game and whether we can put the 5 "best guys" on the field at the same time (or whether an option will work out) and whether that will fix it.

Someone will get hurt.  It’s the nature of the biz. 

 

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I don't disagree at all that KC looks like it did a great job overhauling its OL, my point is that they aren't without their own significant areas of "time will tell" -land in addition to the question of whether the OL that looks great on paper will look great on the field.

 

 

 

I agree, there are a few “time will tell” positions.  My point was, it’s the offseason and until we see them play “time will tell” can be said about every new player acquisition.   But on paper, the chiefs look to be improved in my opinion. Of their OL gels and is a top 5 unit, they might be unstoppable. Josh certainly was when he sat back there with all day to throw.  
 

with regards to the KC vs Bills games last year, I view coaching as our weakest unit.  Our defense looked helpless and I was embarrassed by its performance.  Our OL got whooped by Chris Jones and their blitzes. I feel that if Daboll and McD/Frazier properly adjust and put a good game plan together, we can beat them 💯 (just like browns, titans, ravens, colts, chargers, pats, steelers and dolphins can beat us if their coaching staff puts together a masterpiece game plan).

 

 

overall, great post with good insight 👍🏻

Edited June 8, 2021 by NewEra