Doug Whaley puts full onus of EJ Manuel pick on Buddy Nix; believes he should have been a 3rd/4th round pick

[Rico]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Meh.........Whaley had Beane-like support on TSW for most of his tenure.   

Most of his tenure? Even though it was crystal clear that he was a dead man walking in the months before the 2017 draft, you still had quite a few posters in here who were genuinely shocked the day he was canned. 

 

7 years of failure, he just needed more time.

[Nihilarian]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:40 PM, K-9 said:

Doug Whaley is full of crap. That wasn’t Buddy Nix making all those trips down to Tallahassee to interview everyone and their mother about EJ’s character, work ethic, personality, etc., in the months leading up to that draft. That wasn’t Buddy Nix gushing about EJ’s “it” factor and the “presence people feel when he walks into a room.” 
 

Does Doug have anything to say about the hindsight mistake it was to make that deal for Watkins in 2014? Pretty sure that  wasn’t Buddy, either. 

At the time Whaley stated he personally went down to scout EJ.

 

Nix a retired scout hired to be GM. Whaley had little clue. Russ Brandon...

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Too bad Whaley can't change his screen name...😁

[filthymcnasty08]

Nix:  2012  Had Russ Wilson in the 3rd Rd staring him in the face.   No thanks.  Everyone who evaluated Wilson thought he was special.  Typical no balls GM - needs their QB's to come out of a mold.  

 

        2013 EJ Manuel at 16 in round 1 -   Oh yes!  Give me that!  Let's pay 2 rounds up to get him.

 

Whaley:  takes an extra 1st rounder, while ownership in limbo, to trade-up and get Watkins in an insanely rich draft for WR.  Khalil Mack sitting right there.  UB product, generational talent.  0-doubter.  

 

Both picks I was absolutely furious.  There is nothing more to say about either of these clowns and any "legacy" I associate them with is a perpetuation of  our old losing culture.

 

[PrimeTime101]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Meh.........Whaley had Beane-like support on TSW for most of his tenure.   

So now your just going to make excuses for the guy?

[BADOLBILZ]

46 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So now your just going to make excuses for the guy?

 

 

He wasn't cut out to be a GM.    But neither was Buddy Nix.    Nix was a road scout without the executive chops to do the job but Ralph knew him and he would take the job.   I don't think it's surprising that Nix hired another road scout to be his successor.    

 

Beane is not a scout.    He was head coffee-fetcher for many years under Gettlenutz before they let him dip his toes into the personnel end in 2015-2016.    But being in the Smithers role as DoFO he learned how to run the entire organization.    It was important for the Bills to not have the GM duties essentially split between Whaley and Russ Brandon.......that dynamic was causing a lot of dysfunction.    The HC and the President were both stepping on the GM's toes and Whaley let them and now he thinks he can point the finger.   Doesn't work that way. 

 

But Beane's pro personnel moves were awful in his first 18 months.  Once he got the personnel men around him he needed the results have been a lot better.    But the reason he is viewed as a success with personnel is because of A) Josh Allen and B) Sean McDermott.    Whaley's tenure was chaotic but the personnel work they did wasn't the issue.    They had plenty of talent.    What they didn't have was the QB and the structure that McDermott has built to bring out results from the talent that they have.    

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[Mat68]

Add this to the pile with he wanted Mahomes.  Revisionist history.  Sounds like he is trying to put his name back in good favor in NFL circles.  He is who he is.  Everyones fault but his own.  Been this way from Marrone, to Rex, Ej, Mahomes

[SirAndrew]

4 hours ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

Nix:  2012  Had Russ Wilson in the 3rd Rd staring him in the face.   No thanks.  Everyone who evaluated Wilson thought he was special.  Typical no balls GM - needs their QB's to come out of a mold.  

 

        2013 EJ Manuel at 16 in round 1 -   Oh yes!  Give me that!  Let's pay 2 rounds up to get him.

 

Whaley:  takes an extra 1st rounder, while ownership in limbo, to trade-up and get Watkins in an insanely rich draft for WR.  Khalil Mack sitting right there.  UB product, generational talent.  0-doubter.  

 

Both picks I was absolutely furious.  There is nothing more to say about either of these clowns and any "legacy" I associate them with is a perpetuation of  our old losing culture.

 

The Russell Wilson miss from Nix is incredible. How was a franchise with no QB not willing to risk a third round pick on a QB ? Disregard the concerns regarding Wilson’s statue, a third round pick isn’t much to waste when you have a need at QB. I suppose Russell Wilson is probably very blessed he didn’t go to Buffalo in 2012. Who knows where his career would be had he begun with such a dysfunctional franchise. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by SirAndrew

[Rock'em Sock'em]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:13 PM, YoloinOhio said:

But don’t back yourself in a corner or of overdraft because of need

What did he have to say about Watkins?  Or about Sean Merriman when Whaley was Director of Pro Personnel?  What a clown.

[PrimeTime101]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He wasn't cut out to be a GM.    But neither was Buddy Nix.    Nix was a road scout without the executive chops to do the job but Ralph knew him and he would take the job.   I don't think it's surprising that Nix hired another road scout to be his successor.    

 

Beane is not a scout.    He was head coffee-fetcher for many years under Gettlenutz before they let him dip his toes into the personnel end in 2015-2016.    But being in the Smithers role as DoFO he learned how to run the entire organization.    It was important for the Bills to not have the GM duties essentially split between Whaley and Russ Brandon.......that dynamic was causing a lot of dysfunction.    The HC and the President were both stepping on the GM's toes and Whaley let them and now he thinks he can point the finger.   Doesn't work that way. 

 

But Beane's pro personnel moves were awful in his first 18 months.  Once he got the personnel men around him he needed the results have been a lot better.    But the reason he is viewed as a success with personnel is because of A) Josh Allen and B) Sean McDermott.    Whaley's tenure was chaotic but the personnel work they did wasn't the issue.    They had plenty of talent.    What they didn't have was the QB and the structure that McDermott has built to bring out results from the talent that they have.    

 

so which Pro moves did Beane make in the first 18 months that were horrible?

[dave mcbride]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:27 AM, wppete said:

I’d say the EJ Manuel was perhaps the worse draft pick the Bills have ever made in the first round. I was initially hopeful but EJ proved to be awful on the field, seemed like a great guy off the field though. 

The bills alt least got an extra second rounder in that draft by dropping back to take manuel at 16. They traded away next year’s first to move from the second back into the first to get losman.

[Aussie Joe]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Beane is not a scout.    He was head coffee-fetcher for many years under Gettlenutz before they let him dip his toes into the personnel end in 2015-2016.    But being in the Smithers role as DoFO he learned how to run the entire organization.  

 

 

He started at the bottom at 24 when he joined the Panthers.. not surprisingly he didnt come in straight away as an executive...

 

 

[Rico]

I don’t blame Whaley for the EJ pick, I put that on Nix. Nix also gets credit for the Robert Woods pick and the Jerry Hughes trade. I do blame Whaley for keeping EJ on the team for 4 years though instead of cutting losses and moving on.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so which Pro moves did Beane make in the first 18 months that were horrible?

 

 

The Kelvin Benjamin trade and then keeping him for $8M hit in 2018,  the pre-mature Eric Wood extension that cost them $10M in cap room,  giving McCoy $2M bonus for no reason,  the entire 2018 free agent class(Star, Vontae, Kroft, Murphy etc..).    Can't forget $3.5M and a draft pick try out Corey Coleman for a week.    They burned so much cap room that first 18 months that they are still paying for it today.     A lot was made about Beane creating the greatest amount of dead money in NFL history and how it wasn't his fault..........but the moves at the beginning of his tenure burned even more money than that.    On junk players.

 

Whether he even got good mileage out of the Watkins and Darby trades is even debatable.   Watkins pick was used to trade UP a few spots to get Edmunds.   The Darby pick has netted Harrison Phillips.......who hasn't really panned out yet.     And the Dareus trade caused the run defense to fall off a cliff and helped flip the Jags from worst run defense to near the top and they beat the Bills in the playoffs and reached the AFCCG.     The panic from the defensive collapse soon after the Dareus trade is why they still owe Star Lotulelei $10M+.

 

As I said........Beane has gotten better.   I think he's still had some glaringly sloppy errors with the finances that have kept them out of making major improvements this offseason.    Keeping Murphy last season cost them a bunch of cap room this season.   The Star "pay cut" and keep has blown up in their face.   Keeping Addison AND Butler this time around both seemed incredibly generous of him.   

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Kelvin Benjamin trade and then keeping him for $8M hit in 2018,  the pre-mature Eric Wood extension that cost them $10M in cap room,  giving McCoy $2M bonus for no reason,  the entire 2018 free agent class(Star, Vontae, Kroft, Murphy etc..).    Can't forget $3.5M and a draft pick try out Corey Coleman for a week.    They burned so much cap room that first 18 months that they are still paying for it today.     A lot was made about Beane creating the greatest amount of dead money in NFL history and how it wasn't his fault..........but the moves at the beginning of his tenure burned even more money than that.    On junk players.

 

Whether he even got good mileage out of the Watkins and Darby trades is even debatable.   Watkins pick was used to trade UP a few spots to get Edmunds.   The Darby pick has netted Harrison Phillips.......who hasn't really panned out yet.     And the Dareus trade caused the run defense to fall off a cliff and helped flip the Jags from worst run defense to near the top and they beat the Bills in the playoffs and reached the AFCCG.     The panic from the defensive collapse soon after the Dareus trade is why they still owe Star Lotulelei $10M+.

 

As I said........Beane has gotten better.   I think he's still had some glaringly sloppy errors with the finances that have kept them out of making major improvements this offseason.    Keeping Murphy last season cost them a bunch of cap room this season.   The Star "pay cut" and keep has blown up in their face.   Keeping Addison AND Butler this time around both seemed incredibly generous of him.   

 

Benjamin. Most expected him to be way better then he was. It was considered a good move when we got him.

Eric Wood I agree

McCoy 2 mil for no reason? GM's have good reasons to give him the bonus.. no one just gives up money for "no reason"

Star is still on this team and was missed last year.

Kroft served his purpose. He was second best TE on the team.

Murphy was a waste but that's crystal ball work

We are currently still burning 4 mil from 2018.. from players not on the roster from that year. thats a little high but not killer.

 

AND

 

Darius?  The same Darius when there is 20+ minutes of him taking off plays? not giving 100%?  That Darius? The same Darius that played 30 games in 3 years? That Darius?

 

I think you need to cut Beane a Break and take a bigger look at the players he has brought here through blockbuster trades... All the 1 year prove it contracts....  Is Beane perfect? hell no... Did he make some mistakes? HELL YES every GM makes mistakes.

 

 

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

These were the two moves I didn’t  understand that I thought were easy decisions... would’ve loved to see them drop both(or at the very least Addison, who’s done, IMO) of these guys and use their money for a stud CB or offensive playmaker in FA.... and considering they used their first two picks on defensive lineman, I still don’t get it. 

I agree but things are done for reasons, you and I will never understand

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Of course they have their reasons.... I don’t see the justification for keeping them, but it’s my opinion and it obviously has no bearing on the team. 

again I agree.  I just think some look at the head shakers and ignore the good stuff. and that's not right.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 6/4/2021 at 10:38 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's basically my take on Whaley.  Hell of a scout, should not be allowed near a microphone, ever.

 

I'm just gonna sit here and look at this statement for a while.

 

Nix.  Was hailed as an actual competent football man when the job was given him.  Did a bunch of things that were highly approved by fans at the time, such as firing Tom Modrak and revamping the scouting organization.

 

One of the worst GM's you've ever seen.

 

Son, I think you may be suffering from selective memory here.

 

Lucky you!

The 2010 offseason that Nix orchestrated was a complete failure and an embarrassment. 

 

Extended Chris Kelsey as the model of a Bills player.

 

Kept both of Jauron’s failed QBs, ultimately leading to Trent Edwards starting again in 2010 (and running out of bounds on 4th down in Green Bay).

 

Led the switch to a 3-4 defense and drafted failures like Troup, Carrington, Batten, Moats. In addition to complete busts Marcus Easley, Ed Wang. 
 

Drafted CJ Spiller with the 9th overall pick, and then we saw the coaching staff that wanted their “water bug” get a total of 74 total carries all season.

 

Traded Marshawn Lynch for a 3rd and 5th Round pick and watched that blow up in our faces immediately.

 

Reached back to Chan Gailey, who was out of football when the Bills came calling, and he hired George Edward’s who took the team promptly to the Bottom 5 in defense with Ryan Denney playing OLB. 

 

Famously said he’d be sleeping when Free Agency opened at 12 am. 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Benjamin. Most expected him to be way better then he was. It was considered a good move when we got him.

Eric Wood I agree

McCoy 2 mil for no reason? GM's have good reasons to give him the bonus.. no one just gives up money for "no reason"

Star is still on this team and was missed last year.

Kroft served his purpose. He was second best TE on the team.

Murphy was a waste but that's crystal ball work

We are currently still burning 4 mil from 2018.. from players not on the roster from that year. thats a little high but not killer.

 

AND

 

Darius?  The same Darius when there is 20+ minutes of him taking off plays? not giving 100%?  That Darius? The same Darius that played 30 games in 3 years? That Darius?

 

I think you need to cut Beane a Break and take a bigger look at the players he has brought here through blockbuster trades... All the 1 year prove it contracts....  Is Beane perfect? hell no... Did he make some mistakes? HELL YES every GM makes mistakes.

 

 

I agree but things are done for reasons, you and I will never understand

I agree with most of this. 

 

Brandon Beane was a rookie GM when he came to Buffalo. A rookie learning as he goes and together with McD built the team we see today...a super bowl contender! 

 

The Bills were in cap hell from the Whaley / Nix era to start. Rex Ryan took the best defensive line in the league and neutered it with his moronic scheme. The defense needed rebuilding. The offense needed rebuilding. The O line. The receiving corps. The Buffalo Bills were desperate for a franchise QB!

 

Didn't Brandon Beane just with NFL executive of the year by both Sporting News and the Pro Football Writers of America? The only other Bills GM to accomplish that was Bill Polian. 

 

The man found QB Josh Allen who is the very best QB of that 2018 QB class. Better than #1 overall in Baker Mayfield. Better than #3 overall in Sam Darnold. Better than Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson. 

 

Unlike the Jets GM, Beane build a solid offensive structure around Josh Allen so he could succeed. Sam Darnold who was just jettisoned by the Jets. A wasted 3rd round overall pick.

 

Frankly, who shivs a git what Beane did or didn't do in his rookie season, 2017. The Bills still made the playoffs that year and also made the playoffs in 2019, 2020.

 

The Bills were just in the 2020 AFC Championship game. 

 

How many players are still on the roster from the Nix / Whaley era? Hughes?

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The 2010 offseason that Nix orchestrated was a complete failure and an embarrassment. 

 

Extended Chris Kelsey as the model of a Bills player.

 

Kept both of Jauron’s failed QBs, ultimately leading to Trent Edwards starting again in 2010 (and running out of bounds on 4th down in Green Bay).

 

Led the switch to a 3-4 defense and drafted failures like Troup, Carrington, Batten, Moats. In addition to complete busts Marcus Easley, Ed Wang. 
 

Drafted CJ Spiller with the 9th overall pick, and then we saw the coaching staff that wanted their “water bug” get a total of 74 total carries all season.

 

Traded Marshawn Lynch for a 3rd and 5th Round pick and watched that blow up in our faces immediately.

 

Reached back to Chan Gailey, who was out of football when the Bills came calling, and he hired George Edward’s who took the team promptly to the Bottom 5 in defense with Ryan Denney playing OLB. 

 

Famously said he’d be sleeping when Free Agency opened at 12 am. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah Nix came out the box firing blanks..........unfortunately, so did Beane.

 

The differences.........Beane had a capable HC in place........he had a better talent base(as I said at the time they took a 10-6 team to camp in 2017)..........and most important of all he went out and got a QB right away.    

 

Nix made the excuse that he wanted to build the roster up before taking his swing at a franchise QB........now granted,  he and Whaley left better talent behind than Jauron/Brandon had for Nix but you don't put off getting your QB.    

 

 

[Steve O]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:30 PM, BuffaloRebound said:

I’m sure he wants another crack at an NFL gig, but throwing your former boss under the bus even if true isn’t the way to do it.  

Neither is saying the game is too tough for humans to play