GunnerBill Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Victory Formation said: Clay was pretty good. He was pretty overpaid. Not sure that's the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanticleerBillsFan Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He was pretty overpaid. Not sure that's the same. He was, but also underutilized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 So with Rousseau signing the Bills are now roughly 9M under the cap with only Spencer Brown left to sign. His cap hit isn’t likely to be more than 1M (3rd rounder, Rousseau’s hit is ~2M) so they’ve got 8M+ to play with. Come on Beane, show us something! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 7 hours ago, HappyDays said: His current cap hit is already factored in to their cap space. If they retain say $8 million of his $13 million cap hit, they would still get $5 million back in cap space. In normal trade conditions they wouldn't have to retain any part of his salary, but since Ertz is basically refusing to stay with the team they have no leverage. They can either eat some of his salary to make sure they get a draft pick back for him, or they can release him for nothing and still get hit with $8 million in dead cap. Beane is a smart GM and knows he has the leverage. Eagles save $5m in cap space cutting Ertz. They avoid paying his $8.5m salary which is non-guaranteed but then incur an extra $3.5m in future year bonus amortization. I can’t see Beane giving up a 4th without Philly picking up at least half of Ertz’s $8.5m salary. That means Philly would need to make other moves to get under the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Eagles save $5m in cap space cutting Ertz. They avoid paying his $8.5m salary which is non-guaranteed but then incur an extra $3.5m in future year bonus amortization. I can’t see Beane giving up a 4th without Philly picking up at least half of Ertz’s $8.5m salary. That means Philly would need to make other moves to get under the cap. All other things equal, does Beane give up a 4th for a 1 year rental? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: All other things equal, does Beane give up a 4th for a 1 year rental? I'm hoping they structure the deal for more than one year. You want at least the option to keep Ertz for 2. Would be a slight risk, but seems worth it to me to get the opportunity to have some consistency with a good TE for Josh. I'm also hoping they don't give up to a 4th to save money. I'm hoping the Bills can do this for a 5th. Or figure a way to unload one of our overpriced DL (ie Butler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcar Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 23 hours ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said: Correct me if I am wrong, but Hollister has 2 practices in May/June that reporters could see. How can he "look good" enough where anyone could make any kind of judgement about how he will fare this year? Offseason be crazy Fwiw, he seemed to have great chemistry with Josh in college. Either way, there's nothing wrong with having 3 TEs. Do wish Ertz was a better blocker, though. Realistically, he's closer to a slot receiver than a TE, but maybe it's just the way he was used in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 Here is my quick breakdown using Spotrac: The Iggles have the exact same cap hits whether Ertz is traded or released at this point. $4.22M cap hit in 2021, $3.55M cap hit in 2022. They would save $8.5M in space and salary this season. Any salary they would take on in a trade would add to his cap hit this season. The Bills would take on his $8.5M salary and cap hit this season, less anything the Iggles agreed to take. So the trade is really a pick for taking on some cap/salary on the Iggles side. On the Bills side they’re just looking to buy down his one year contract with a day 3 pick. Presumably they’d be looking at how much less they’d be paying him versus what it would be on the FA market, not his current $8.5M salary. There are ways to value the cap equivalent of draft picks - this OTC article has examples - but I can definitely see why this would be such a difficult trade to make. Without knowing his market price it’s impossible to figure out what the right pick for salary amounts are fair - or if it’s even possible to make them fair. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The Iggles have the exact same cap hits whether Ertz is traded or released at this point. $4.22M cap hit in 2021, $3.55M cap hit in 2022. They would save $8.5M The Bills would take on his $8.5M salary and cap hit this season, less anything the Iggles agreed to take. So the trade is really a pick for taking on some cap/salary on the Iggles side. On the Bills side they’re just looking to buy down his one year contract with a day 3 pick. Presumably they’d be looking at how much less they’d be paying him versus what it would be on the FA market, not his current $8.5M salary. Without knowing his market price it’s impossible to figure out what the right pick for salary amounts are fair - or if it’s even possible to make them fair. A trade/pick is for more than cap/salary. You keep Ertz from hitting the open market. You get to negotiate a deal (which is probably the delay). The market price of Ertz is a huge factor. At one time, a selling point was you would get Ertz for the $8.5M, which seemed a bargain. The general public has shifted massively since then, and it seems you have bought in. What do you think a fair price for Ertz is? Hunter/J Smith both got over $12, Pitts is at $8.5, J Graham is at $8, Higbee $7+, Hooper is over $10M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, eball said: So with Rousseau signing the Bills are now roughly 9M under the cap with only Spencer Brown left to sign. His cap hit isn’t likely to be more than 1M (3rd rounder, Rousseau’s hit is ~2M) so they’ve got 8M+ to play with. Come on Beane, show us something! Less hit than that, since he will likely push another player out of the top 51. So his cap hit will be whatever an end-of-the-3rd-rounder signs for, minus $920,000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said: A trade/pick is for more than cap/salary. You keep Ertz from hitting the open market. You get to negotiate a deal (which is probably the delay). The market price of Ertz is a huge factor. At one time, a selling point was you would get Ertz for the $8.5M, which seemed a bargain. The general public has shifted massively since then, and it seems you have bought in. What do you think a fair price for Ertz is? Hunter/J Smith both got over $12, Pitts is at $8.5, J Graham is at $8, Higbee $7+, Hooper is over $10M. I was only trying to explain the situation, not give an opinion of whether we should acquire Ertz. I am not a big fan of our TE corps so I’d love to get Ertz. As for what he’s worth in the FA market, I already said that I didn’t have a great idea because it’s June and there are less teams in need of a TE and less cap space in the league. That muddies the waters. Is he worth $8.5M? Probably, but if Beane can flip a day 3 pick to lessen his salary and cap hit, then all the better. Or if he hits the FA market and we get him for 2 or 3 seasons instead of 1, that’s better too. Or maybe he take a little more money to play for a team that’s not a contender and we miss out on him. But did we want him if that’s where his head was? Edited June 4, 2021 by BarleyNY 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) I don’t think ertz would be a good fit on this team, I think he would be a great fit. There is a need for this type of TE here and he is a pros pro as Beane says. Knows what it takes to win a ring. Just a couple years ago the Bills respected him so much that Tre White shadow him. He’s not Travis Kelce but this is the type of TE that McDermott and Beane feel we did not have last year. I like Knox but he’s still developing and they knew he was a project. I know people like joe Marino feel he’s not needed in this offense because he would steal targets from the WRs but I see it differently. Ertz could scare the defense just enough to commit more to him in the game plan than they would to Knox and open more space for the WRs. The Bills are like 31st In cap space allotted to the TE position. Just do it. He makes the team better and McDermott likes to have a vet leader in the locker room at every position. Edited June 4, 2021 by YoloinOhio 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I don’t think ertz would be a good fit on this team, I think he would be a great fit. There is a need for this type of TE here and he is a pros pro as Beane says. Knows what it takes to win a ring. Just a couple years ago the Bills respected him so much that Tre White shadow him. He’s not Travis Kelce but this is the type of TE that McDermott and Beane feel we did not have last year. I like Knox but he’s still developing and they knew he was a project. I know people like joe Marino feel he’s not needed in this offense because he would steal targets from the WRs but I see it differently. Ertz could scare the defense just enough to commit more to him in the game plan than they would to Knox and open more space for the WRs. The Bills are like 31st In cap space allotted to the TE position. Just do it. He makes the team better and McDermott likes to have a vet leader in the locker room at every position. I agree, but do you think the Bills are better off using the remaining cap space on Ertz, or on a vet CB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 Just now, Rubes said: I agree, but do you think the Bills are better off using the remaining cap space on Ertz, or on a vet CB? I think they can sign a vet CB too if they want. That was just one cap move. I don’t know if they really need to sign one though. It’s basically like Nelson or no one for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think they can sign a vet CB too if they want. That was just one cap move. I don’t know if they really need to sign one though. It’s basically like Nelson or no one for me anyway. That's true, maybe I should have specified: Ertz or a high-profile vet CB like Nelson? I don't think they could do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Rubes said: That's true, maybe I should have specified: Ertz or a high-profile vet CB like Nelson? I don't think they could do both. I think I’ll go with Ertz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 11 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He was pretty overpaid. Not sure that's the same. He was overpaid, had injuries but he was not pond scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 35 minutes ago, Rubes said: That's true, maybe I should have specified: Ertz or a high-profile vet CB like Nelson? I don't think they could do both. Ertz, no hesitation. CB2 is not that important in McDermott's scheme. Wallace might be a limited player but he doesn't really limit the defense. He's a sound tackler and hits his spot. I still have faith in Dane Jackson too. The offense on the other hand is currently limited to WR only production. I know this is for some reason a controversial opinion around here, but if you traded Knox for Kelce no question in my mind our offense would instantly be better than KC's offense. Not saying Ertz is that good but he is a big upgrade over Knox and gives us a legitimate #1 option at an important position. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: He was overpaid, had injuries but he was not pond scum. Not pond scum, no, but Scott Chandler's two best years in Buffalo were better than Charles Clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Not pond scum, no, but Scott Chandler's two best years in Buffalo were better than Charles Clay. Charles Clay had far more production over the course of his career. He was a good player but had issues with his knees filling up with fluids IIRC, had to constantly have them drained. He was never truly 100% while he was here. Definitely an above average TE, made big plays every here and there sporadically. Chandler was an average run of the mill TE. Charles could of been great if he didn’t have degenerative knee issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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