Tiberius Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 55 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: You can spin it all you want. You’re making a different point. Private industry made innovation happen despite government intervention, yeah maybe in some cases the government then had to buy services from these private companies because their own bloated government garbage taxpayer funded agencies were such dismal failures. And don’t be so naive to think spacex doesn’t have other buyers. Do you even understand what the word initiative means? So many People who are allowed the same weight of voting are criminally delusional when it comes to understanding what governments actually do with the money they steal from the workers here. These corporations wouldn’t even be able to raise capital with special government protections of limited liability. And the bail outs when they fail. The fact that the government has to redistribute money to keep the consumers supplied with enough money so the “private” businesses can succeed shows how the government props up the whole system 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: These corporations wouldn’t even be able to raise capital with special government protections of limited liability. And the bail outs when they fail. The fact that the government has to redistribute money to keep the consumers supplied with enough money so the “private” businesses can succeed shows how the government props up the whole system So you believe free enterprise can't exist without government interference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: These corporations wouldn’t even be able to raise capital with special government protections of limited liability. And the bail outs when they fail. The fact that the government has to redistribute money to keep the consumers supplied with enough money so the “private” businesses can succeed shows how the government props up the whole system I know tib. You’re people of the government, by the government for the government. They own you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 59 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I think you're on the right track here. It doesn't make any sense to view a country as the number one threat to your security and then turn around and send them 100's of billions of dollars in trade every year. Maybe the first thing to do rather than some knee jerk spending spree is to make sure you've got some systemic plan in place that lines everything up pointed in the right direction. A problem with the don't buy any Chinese goods approach is the shelves in stores like Walmart would be almost empty. And things like medications and drugs depend on materials and manufacturing sourced from China. But all this didn't happen overnight. It happened over 30 years of corporations and the Chinese government of systematically stripping all the productive capacity out of the US economy and moving it offshore. To places like China. And it didn't happen by accident either. It all happened by design. One big thing to do is get a read from all the S&P 500 companies on where their allegiances are here? Are they with America? Or are they with China? Or most likely they're just in it for the money. Want to start somewhere. Force these firms to pick a side and act to demonstrate that pick. Are they with us or against us? Boycott WalMart, Amazon and home depot. The three biggest Chinese liaisons that there are. See most American like their cheap Chinese plastic crap too much though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I know tib. You’re people of the government, by the government for the government. They own you. I tell the truth and you answer with nonsense 20 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So you believe free enterprise can't exist without government interference? How is a corporation a free enterprise when the government makes laws that say it can white wash its debts? And no, free enterprise without any doubt could not succeed without the government. That’s pretty basic 7 minutes ago, TSOL said: Boycott WalMart, Amazon and home depot. The three biggest Chinese liaisons that there are. See most American like their cheap Chinese plastic crap too much though. Home Depot’s CEO is a big Trump guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I tell the truth and you answer with nonsense It’s your truth. You need a government to redistribute money to you because you’re too lazy to earn your own. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I tell the truth and you answer with nonsense How is a corporation a free enterprise when the government makes laws that say it can white wash its debts? And no, free enterprise without any doubt could not succeed without the government. That’s pretty basic Home Depot’s CEO is a big Trump guy You got it backwards. Government cannot survive without free enterprise and private citizens working and cooperating to produce what a society needs. I think we've identified the fundamental flaw in your thought process. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Home Depot’s CEO is a big Trump guy I do not care about that, or Trump as much as you may think. Trump's appeal and downfall was that he wasn't a status quo politician. People liked that but it also meant he would never survive in Washington Anyways screw china and their stupid plastic trinkets. Except some of them trinkets are pretty cool... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share Posted May 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: You got it backwards. Government cannot survive without free enterprise and private citizens working and cooperating to produce what a society needs. I think we've identified the fundamental flaw in your thought process. You have no idea what you are talking about. Who would enforce contracts if there was no government? 39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: It’s your truth. You need a government to redistribute money to you because you’re too lazy to earn your own. You can’t even come close to the truth. That’s your problem. You have not found out how to deal with reality. That’s why you are a flunky Libertarian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 43 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: It’s your truth. You need a government to redistribute money to you because you’re too lazy to earn your own. Truer words have never been posted on this Board. This deserves its own thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) On 5/29/2021 at 11:06 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Before you get there, I’ve listed several questions for you. Here they are again in case it helps Just a reminder, but you literally used the term "economic freedom" in a sentence in the post you are quoting: On 5/29/2021 at 3:27 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Economic freedom in the US continues a rapid decline... That's your own, original thought with your own word choice. In order to make such a statement, one must have a working definition of economic freedom. So either you have a definition of economic freedom and you are just being difficult, or you don't have a definition and are making uninformed claims. Edited May 31, 2021 by Capco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Capco said: Just a reminder, but you literally used the term "economic freedom" in a sentence in the post you are quoting: That's your own, original thought with your own word choice. In order to make such a statement, one must have a working definition of economic freedom. So either you have a definition of economic freedom and you are just being difficult, or you don't have a definition and are making uninformed claims. On 5/29/2021 at 2:50 PM, Capco said: In which country do citizens have more economic freedom with less state intervention? China or the US? I’m definitely not familiar with any economic freedom metric that assess citizens economic freedom, those were your words. But regardless, reality is that China is competing on one of the most basic pillars of free market capitalism, low cost of production, and minimal government policy that intrudes upon and increases production cost or global competitiveness. that’s why they are winning. while their authoritarian government tends to be harsh on the individuals, and devoid of social safety nets, it’s very pro-business. Hence my original point that the Chinese are hungry and work hard as opposed to ever growing lazy Americans on the govt dole and stifled American corporations staffing armies of lawyers to navigate ever expanding bloated federal and state bureaucracy and regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I’m definitely not familiar with any economic freedom metric that assess citizens economic freedom, those were your words. But regardless, reality is that China is competing on one of the most basic pillars of free market capitalism, low cost of production, and minimal government policy that intrudes upon and increases production cost or global competitiveness. that’s why they are winning. while their authoritarian government tends to be harsh on the individuals, and devoid of social safety nets, it’s very pro-business. Hence my original point that the Chinese are hungry and work hard as opposed to ever growing lazy Americans on the govt dole and stifled American corporations staffing armies of lawyers to navigate ever expanding bloated federal and state bureaucracy and regulation. I meant like... the degree to which individuals can make economic choices within a society or country, under their laws, etc. The parameters that define economic freedom are pointless if there are no players making choices within those parameters, like people and businesses. It's kind of built into the definition (as I thought I understood it, anyway). Here's a definition written by The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank: Economic freedom is the fundamental right of every human to control his or her own labor and property. In an economically free society, individuals are free to work, produce, consume, and invest in any way they please. In economically free societies, governments allow labor, capital, and goods to move freely, and refrain from coercion or constraint of liberty beyond the extent necessary to protect and maintain liberty itself. Obviously, neither country is perfectly economically free according to the above definition, and both have restrictions and regulations governing economic choices. And I know you're saying that China is winning, but I'm still trying to find out which country's government allows, for example, labor, capital, and goods to move more freely in your opinion. Do the Chinese have more control over their own labor and property than Americans do? Are the Chinese more free to work, produce, consume, and invest than Americans are? Edited June 1, 2021 by Capco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Capco said: I meant like... the degree to which individuals can make economic choices within a society or country, under their laws, etc. The parameters that define economic freedom are pointless if there are no players making choices within those parameters, like people and businesses. It's kind of built into the definition (as I thought I understood it, anyway). Here's a definition written by The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank: Economic freedom is the fundamental right of every human to control his or her own labor and property. In an economically free society, individuals are free to work, produce, consume, and invest in any way they please. In economically free societies, governments allow labor, capital, and goods to move freely, and refrain from coercion or constraint of liberty beyond the extent necessary to protect and maintain liberty itself. Obviously, neither country is perfectly economically free according to the above definition, and both have restrictions and regulations governing economic choices. And I know you're saying that China is winning, but I'm still trying to find out which country's government allows, for example, labor, capital, and goods to move more freely in your opinion. Do the Chinese have more control over their own labor and property than Americans do? Are the Chinese more free to work, produce, consume, and invest than Americans are? at this point you’re arguing in circles. Here are some helpful posts for you to address your questions. On 5/28/2021 at 5:19 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: More federal money raining from the sky to compete with China. 🤦♂️ Which bloated federal agency made the vaccine breakthrough? Oh bad example And which federal agency was Microsoft, er google, ummm wait skip those. which federal agency solved reusable rocket booster... oh that was Musk how about the electric car? Nope Maybe instead of taxing business to redistribute their profits you steal less of their money and incentivize businesses to keep developing in their much much more efficient way. China is winning because their populous aren’t lazy bums sitting around with their hands out. They are hungry and work hard. On 5/29/2021 at 12:22 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Actually they compete like unbridled capitalists against the rest of the world, by providing the cheapest means of production in the world. They have no social safety nets and have no qualms about their working classes lifestyle. educate yourself https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/07/08/chinas-economic-success-proves-the-power-of-capitalism/?sh=4e6da3593b9d On 5/29/2021 at 3:27 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: what does citizens have more economic freedom mean? Citizens are free to seek work and pay taxes. That’s not what economic freedom is. If you mean in context of corporations, which would make a lot more sense, It really depends what you mean by state intervention do you mean federally imposed minimum wage? Labor laws? unions laws? Health Insurance mandates?requirements for what corporate boards must look like? Environmental regulations? Affirmative action? Lending requirements? Municipal selection of local utility monopolies? Selective taxation? SEC? FCC?government bailouts and selective subsidies? Social security? Pension regulations? Credit acts and regulations? Sarbanes Oxley compliance? PII regulation? CCPA? how do you classify intervention? Economic freedom in the US continues a rapid decline... China is open for business and business is booming without the burden of the freeloaders and snowflakes. The freest economies in the world are Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Ireland ... us isn’t close and falling fast On 5/30/2021 at 10:30 AM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: You can spin it all you want. You’re making a different point. Private industry made innovation happen despite government intervention, yeah maybe in some cases the government then had to buy services from these private companies because their own bloated government garbage taxpayer funded agencies were such dismal failures. And don’t be so naive to think spacex doesn’t have other buyers. Do you even understand what the word initiative means? So many People who are allowed the same weight of voting are criminally delusional when it comes to understanding what governments actually do with the money they steal from the workers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: at this point you’re arguing in circles. Here are some helpful posts for you to address your questions. Okay. So you’re saying the Chinese have more economic freedom than Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, Capco said: Okay. So you’re saying the Chinese have more economic freedom than Americans? Keep trying, you’ll get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Keep trying, you’ll get there. It's one or the other, unless you think they are equivalent. I'm not sure why you are so afraid of answering a pretty direct question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Capco said: It's one or the other, unless you think they are equivalent. I'm not sure why you are so afraid of answering a pretty direct question. Happy to work with you. Pm me. You’re trying to bite off a really complicated subject. It’s clear you aren’t familiar with some basic economics. No need to hash it out here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Happy to work with you. Pm me. You’re trying to bite off a really complicated subject. It’s clear you aren’t familiar with some basic economics. No need to hash it out here I tried 13 times to respond to a good faith let’s talk and it broke I’m sure it’s just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I tried 13 times to respond to a good faith let’s talk and it broke I’m sure it’s just me Sorry you were having problems. No worries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts