DrDawkinstein Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 Seems like this is still low. Or at least lower than it would have been without COVID and everything continuing on normally. Cap was going up by about $10M each year. 2016 - $155M 2017 - $167M 2018 - $177M 2019 - $188M 2020 - $198M Extrapolating... non-COVID 2021 - ~$208M non-COVID 2022 - ~$218M Instead, we get... 2021 - $188M 2022 - MAX $208M Still some catching up to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 3 hours ago, cba fan said: how can they know the ceiling before knowing all revenue??? If they bring in more than expected in 2021 does it get added to 2023 to make 2023 floor lower or 2023 ceiling higher.??? lol...... Presumably because the cap should've been even lower for 2021 based on revenue, but an artificial floor was agreed to by both parties. So the back half of that agreement is that even if revenue is higher than expected in 2021, they'll smooth out the gains in the cap. Think of it as 2021 borrowed against future gains, so 2022 will pay those back if it can. (Of course, if revenue is lower than expected in 2021, it'll be even lower than the ceiling...) The other factor might be both the NFL & NFLPA wanting to avoid what happened in the NBA when their cap spiked and the Warriors were able to sign Durant. That was after the NBA signed a huge new TV deal, and a lot of people expect a similar revenue bump from the NFL's new TV deal. Key difference is that the NBA owners' "cap smoothing" proposal just delayed plugging the full revenue gains into the cap, so there was no financial incentive for the players to say yes. But here, the NFL owners already showed some good faith with the 2021 cap floor, so it's not a shock that the players are more willing to bargain on the 2022 cap ceiling. Also, this is probably good news for the Bills on the whole. If we did have an NBA-style jump, I think big-market teams would be much more likely to take advantage of it/game it, even if just for short-term gains. Beane has been very consistent in saying that he's building for sustainability and doesn't want to do moves that mortgage the future, so that would probably put us at an overall disadvantage in a major cap spike situation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Allen2Diggs said: I agree, I just mean they have a unique opportunity to grab some great players who are cut because of the cap situation. I do think they are on the rise though (assuming Lawrence isn't a bust) Color me somewhat skeptical about the transition of Meyer to the pros. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayray808 Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 Julio time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 3 hours ago, HOUSE said: Spend it all on Zack Ertz. You’re such a stir. 6 minutes ago, rayray808 said: Julio time you’re a stir too. Now Kittle, we’ll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 6 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: That's $16M more than what Spotrac currently has. Bills will be fine next year. Possibly, there is a huge contract coming for Allen. While I think he will be somewhat “team friendly” he is a competitive guy so I doubt it will swing too far in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: That's $16M more than what Spotrac currently has. Bills will be fine next year. extend Josh (2021), Pay Diggs (2022) Extend Beasley (2022), Frachise Tag (in 2023) Edmunds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: That's $16M more than what Spotrac currently has. Bills will be fine next year. Yeah? What I see is that they've got the Bills adjusted cap at $208M now, and the adjusted cap usually includes the unspent money from the year before, which right now is around $3M. So that would seem to mean they have it at around $205M right now. That would seem to be $10M more. Am I missing something? Right now, we're 26th for cap space in the league for 2022. 17 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Yeah. They can create a quick $20 million with a few moves. They could. But some of those moves might not be in their best interest. And to remind people, right now we have 54 guys listed for that year 2022. Many of them are questionable or even unlikely to be with the team next year (Tommy Sweeney, Darryl Johnson, Antonio Williams, Syrus Tuitele, Tariq Thomposon, Josh Thomas, Quintin Morris, Nick McCloud, Olaijah Griffin, Nate Becker, Mike Love, Tanner Gentry, Brandin Bryant, Reggie Gilliam, Isaiah Hodgins, Jake Fromm, etc.) Yet we won't save money by cutting them, they're pretty much all minimum guys, so anyone we bring in will cost that much or more. Plus guys like Addison and Sanders who are listed but will actually either just be dead money or will require new money to re-sign. Plus Rousseau and Spencer Brown aren't counted at all yet as they haven't signed contracts. It won't be a year with a lot of money hanging around, looks like. Things are likely to be tight. Edited May 27, 2021 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanThru-N-Thru Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said: They could. But some of those moves might not be in their best interest. And to remind people, right now we have 54 guys listed for that year 2022. Many of them are questionable or even unlikely to be with the team next year (Tommy Sweeney, Darryl Johnson, Antonio Williams, Syrus Tuitele, Tariq Thomposon, Josh Thomas, Quintin Morris, Nick McCloud, Olaijah Griffin, Nate Becker, Mike Love, Tanner Gentry, Brandin Bryant, Reggie Gilliam, Isaiah Hodgins, Jake Fromm, etc.) Yet we won't save money by cutting them, they're pretty much all minimum guys, so anyone we bring in will cost that much or more. Plus guys like Addison and Sanders who are listed but will actually either just be dead money or will require new money to re-sign. Plus Rousseau and Spencer Brown aren't counted at all yet as they haven't signed contracts. It won't be a year with a lot of money hanging around, looks like. Things are likely to be tight. Agreed. Also when I looked at what they have for the Bills in 2022 on Spotrac they have them at only 8 million with no rollover for 2021 and that's without the rookie contracts of Greg Rousseau and Spencer Brown which will be higher then the bottom 2 contracts that counted towards the top 51. I believe they're a lot closer to the cap for 2022 then they like to be. Unless someone really steps up or Morse gets another injury they're not going to get rid of him. So the only other options to save would be to sign Allen and Edmunds to long term extensions and gain some room that way, and to release Star. Beasley and Felicano are the other contracts where you could save money but they're integral parts of the offense so I don't see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Bills Fan Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 I'll admit that I don't understand the cap at all. I don't even try to. Is there really a salary cap when some teams seem to always be up against it when other teams like the Chiefs pay Mahomes over 40 million a year and he counts 7 million against the cap? For years the WFT signed every big name free agent to huge contracts and never went over the cap. Why have a cap when teams can still sign whomever they wish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah? What I see is that they've got the Bills adjusted cap at $208M now, and the adjusted cap usually includes the unspent money from the year before, which right now is around $3M. So that would seem to mean they have it at around $205M right now. That would seem to be $10M more. Am I missing something? Right now, we're 26th for cap space in the league for 2022. No you are not missing anything. My point was that the Bills were in the hole for 2022 before the raise in cap. Now they are not. Also there are no "big name" FAs to sign. They for sure are not swimming in cap space but they are not in any cap trouble. That's why I said they will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 39 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said: I'll admit that I don't understand the cap at all. I don't even try to. Is there really a salary cap when some teams seem to always be up against it when other teams like the Chiefs pay Mahomes over 40 million a year and he counts 7 million against the cap? For years the WFT signed every big name free agent to huge contracts and never went over the cap. Why have a cap when teams can still sign whomever they wish? The first thing you have to understand is that the salary cap is very real and important, but most contracts aren’t. The cap for a team is just the league determined base cap for that year plus whatever was rolled over from the previous season. The important thing about contracts is simply what money is paid out and what future money is guaranteed. Sooner or later that all has to be accounted for with respect to the cap. Some teams with a lot of space can spend very freely, but the Bills are no longer one of those. They are spending at a level where decisions have to be made. In order to sign a player with a significant contract they have to offset that cap hit with a reduction somewhere else. It could be by cutting a higher priced player or restructuring players with large salaries to push some of their cap hit into future seasons. But restructuring like that too much or with the wrong player can cause issues for teams. This season the Bills will have to make a little room to get through, but restructuring Dawkins and/or Diggs should be plenty. Additional moves would require more work though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 27 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The first thing you have to understand is that the salary cap is very real and important, but most contracts aren’t. The cap for a team is just the league determined base cap for that year plus whatever was rolled over from the previous season. The important thing about contracts is simply what money is paid out and what future money is guaranteed. Sooner or later that all has to be accounted for with respect to the cap. Some teams with a lot of space can spend very freely, but the Bills are no longer one of those. They are spending at a level where decisions have to be made. In order to sign a player with a significant contract they have to offset that cap hit with a reduction somewhere else. It could be by cutting a higher priced player or restructuring players with large salaries to push some of their cap hit into future seasons. But restructuring like that too much or with the wrong player can cause issues for teams. This season the Bills will have to make a little room to get through, but restructuring Dawkins and/or Diggs should be plenty. Additional moves would require more work though. Well said Barley! You should have this ready to copy and paste in all future cap threads. You describe exactly where the team is now that it has matured into a contender team. Personally I think that Beane is about done with the roster this year. I expect some tweaking of the camp bodies and MAYBE a 1 year low salary hit on 1 more CB. I'm not sure that will cause Beane to do another restructure. At cutdown to the 53 day there are a number of "below the 51 cap guys" who will make the roster and offset some money needed for the season. IMO FWIW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said: I'll admit that I don't understand the cap at all. I don't even try to. Is there really a salary cap when some teams seem to always be up against it when other teams like the Chiefs pay Mahomes over 40 million a year and he counts 7 million against the cap? For years the WFT signed every big name free agent to huge contracts and never went over the cap. Why have a cap when teams can still sign whomever they wish? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/ Mahomes contract is actually very very low cap hits first two years. Shockingly low due to he had years left on his rookie deal. Then jumps. Interesting that when it expires, with no *restructures, he will only be 37 !! Aaron Rodgers age!! Another big payday could await. (*60 million cap hit in 2027 kinda cries out for restructure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 On 5/26/2021 at 3:07 PM, Allen2Diggs said: I think this announcement will kick off a new wave of extensions, restructures, and trades leaguewide. Then June 1st will come along and I guarantee there will be some shocking cuts across the league. I envy teams like the Jaguars (has that statement ever been made before?) that have a crazy amount of cap space to work with. Don't. There is no guarantee they will use it wisely. I'd much rather be the team that was 13-3 last year with a bonafide star QB and not a rookie who "might" be someday. On 5/26/2021 at 5:08 PM, DrDawkinstein said: Seems like this is still low. Or at least lower than it would have been without COVID and everything continuing on normally. Cap was going up by about $10M each year. 2016 - $155M 2017 - $167M 2018 - $177M 2019 - $188M 2020 - $198M Extrapolating... non-COVID 2021 - ~$208M non-COVID 2022 - ~$218M Instead, we get... 2021 - $188M 2022 - MAX $208M Still some catching up to do. It will explode in the years following Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 21 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah? What I see is that they've got the Bills adjusted cap at $208M now, and the adjusted cap usually includes the unspent money from the year before, which right now is around $3M. So that would seem to mean they have it at around $205M right now. That would seem to be $10M more. Am I missing something? Right now, we're 26th for cap space in the league for 2022. They could. But some of those moves might not be in their best interest. And to remind people, right now we have 54 guys listed for that year 2022. Many of them are questionable or even unlikely to be with the team next year (Tommy Sweeney, Darryl Johnson, Antonio Williams, Syrus Tuitele, Tariq Thomposon, Josh Thomas, Quintin Morris, Nick McCloud, Olaijah Griffin, Nate Becker, Mike Love, Tanner Gentry, Brandin Bryant, Reggie Gilliam, Isaiah Hodgins, Jake Fromm, etc.) Yet we won't save money by cutting them, they're pretty much all minimum guys, so anyone we bring in will cost that much or more. Plus guys like Addison and Sanders who are listed but will actually either just be dead money or will require new money to re-sign. Plus Rousseau and Spencer Brown aren't counted at all yet as they haven't signed contracts. It won't be a year with a lot of money hanging around, looks like. Things are likely to be tight. Not arguing your points as I agree. Just want to point out they have every team's adjusted cap at $208.2 million. They're just using the ceiling amount for now as I suppose it's way too early to bother trying to know what each team's rollover, etc. will be next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 The NFLPA agreed to a ceiling but not a floor? Did they receive anything in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: The NFLPA agreed to a ceiling but not a floor? Did they receive anything in return? They received a RAISED ceiling compared to what share the NFL's "partners" were supposed to get due to reduced revenue last year, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 On 5/26/2021 at 5:08 PM, DrDawkinstein said: Seems like this is still low. Or at least lower than it would have been without COVID and everything continuing on normally. Cap was going up by about $10M each year. 2016 - $155M 2017 - $167M 2018 - $177M 2019 - $188M 2020 - $198M Extrapolating... non-COVID 2021 - ~$208M non-COVID 2022 - ~$218M Instead, we get... 2021 - $188M 2022 - MAX $208M Still some catching up to do. Dawk, it’s been commented on multiple outlets, but you probably know by now I enjoy MTC on Sirius with Jim and Pat. I’ll just them as a reference that the hit in revenues the owners agreed and certified by the NFLPA to spread out the hit over two years. So Pat was basically saying once they get through this hit and now that 100% fan attendance is expected, you should see a balloon in 2023 and 2024 catching us up. This is why we’ve had more one year prove it contracts and veterans accepting a lot less, as the teams wouldn’t hire them at premiere rates. He mentioned by the time this CBA and new TV revenue ends the cap should look like $225 or so in 23, and $255 in 24. Then teams start really benefiting and players of course given revenue sharing the back half of this decade is conceivable to end with a $350+ cap. I think extensions now that the capologists on teams can try to map out likely scenarios will back end Allen and Edmunds contracts using as an example. The players and owners took their lumps over these two years. Only time will tell as these things are calculated every year. Those guys logic on that show was relatively pragmatic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 46 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: The NFLPA agreed to a ceiling but not a floor? Did they receive anything in return? In order to get the floor in 2020 up to $182.5 mil instead of the $175 mil minimum originally agreed to, the NFLPA and NFL agreed to suspend certain player benefits we rarely hear about (severance pay, player savings plans, CBA related performance based pay, etc.) until 2023 when they would be reinstated. This agreement specifies that any amount above the $208.2 mil ceiling will go towards reinstating those benefits in 2022. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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