Harrison Phillips- Can he become what he was drafted for?

[OldTimer1960]

I am very hopeful that Harrison will be a significant contributor this year.  I thought he was coming on in 2018 and looked good pre-injury 2019.  Torn ACL in-season then tried to play - think that he could not have been near 100% early last year.

[YattaOkasan]

Heard from cover 1 dudes that he was looking fit too. Saw this picture on an article. Anyone on Twitter got a better picture. He does look like he lost weight. 
 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

There are several 1 sentence posts in which people just drop their opinion with zero evidence to backup their opinion. 

 

Of course!  And when presented as "honest criticism", IMHO it's always appropriate to "call the shot" with 'em.  This site runs on discussion, and when it's just an opinion (either way) with nothing to back it up, there's not much substrate to discuss.

 

12 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Heard from cover 1 dudes that he was looking fit too. Saw this picture on an article. Anyone on Twitter got a better picture. He does look like he lost weight. 
 

 

I thought big 'n fat was a desireable trait in a DT?

[YattaOkasan]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Of course!  And when presented as "honest criticism", IMHO it's always appropriate to "call the shot" with 'em.  This site runs on discussion, and when it's just an opinion (either way) with nothing to back it up, there's not much substrate to discuss.

 

 

I thought big 'n fat was a desireable trait in a DT?

I thought so too but he looks super fit now.  Bit of a butter ball previously.  Thats a solid 312 (not sure exactly where cover 1 got this weight from) hes got going on right now.  

[Warcodered]

God I hope so.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:20 AM, NewEra said:

Sadly, I think he’s our best 1T.  He’s not on the bubble imo.  Star won’t be playing and even if he does, the atrophy will likely set him back even more imo.  

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Star will almost certainly be playing, barring injury of course. Most likely Harry will be competing with Star to be the #1 1-tech. When healthy his first year, Harry was pretty close, quicker, a better penetrator, but not quite as good at just eating space and holding blocks as Star. I'm hopeful that he can mean as much to this defense as he did to the very good 2018 group.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

God I hope so.

 

 

He squared up the shoulder, crouched...and then completely forgot to bring his feet along, failing to drive through the tackle as the QB was able to get the pass off.

 

I give it a 2/10. Terrible finish; no explosion.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Star will almost certainly be playing, barring injury of course. Most likely Harry will be competing with Star to be the #1 1-tech. When healthy his first year, Harry was pretty close, quicker, a better penetrator, but not quite as good at just eating space and holding blocks as Star. I'm hopeful that he can mean as much to this defense as he did to the very good 2018 group.

Nonsense that star won’t play or get hurt?  Looks like he’ll play…..we’ll see if he gets hurt.  A big man taking a year off could take its toll. 17 games+ the playoffs.  
 

and I said Phillips was our best 1T and isn’t a candidate to get cut….. you pretty much agreed with everything that I said except “star won’t be playing”…..after which I said that if he plays, he’ll get hurt.  You also mentioned “unless he gets hurt”.  
 

either way, my bottom line:  I’m not expecting much of anything from star.  I’m expecting more from phillips than star. 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Nonsense that star won’t play or get hurt?  Looks like he’ll play…..we’ll see if he gets hurt.  A big man taking a year off could take its toll. 17 games+ the playoffs.  
 

and I said Phillips was our best 1T and isn’t a candidate to get cut….. you pretty much agreed with everything that I said except “star won’t be playing”…..after which I said that if he plays, he’ll get hurt.  You also mentioned “unless he gets hurt”.  
 

either way, my bottom line:  I’m not expecting much of anything from star.  I’m expecting more from phillips than star. 

 

 

Wait, football players get hurt sometimes? Holy cow, this is a whole new fact that I'd never noticed before.

 

Of course he could get hurt. So could anyone. Any player.

 

As for what you apparently said, I answered one post. And that's the only one I read. And no, you didn't say that. If you had, I'd have responded differently.

 

It's fine you're not expecting much from him. But that says more about you than about Star.

 

I'm looking forward to Star's press conference with Josh tomorrow.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Wait, football players get hurt sometimes? Holy cow, this is a whole new fact that I'd never noticed before.

 

Of course he could get hurts. So could anyone. Any player.

 

As for what you apparently said, I answered one post. And that's the only one I read. And no, you didn't say that. If you had, I'd have.

 

It's fine you're  not expecting much from him. But that says more about you than about Star.

You can act like 300lb men in their 30s who don’t play for 1.5 years aren’t more prone to get injured than your average player…..but you know what I’m saying is right. Argue more.
 

what says more about me than star?  That I don’t think he’s some special 1T that will come in and save the day?  That I don’t think he’s very good?  You said that harrison is probably the better 1T…..and Harrison isn’t THAT good.  That I think that super big guys that don’t play for 1.5 years are more likely to get hurt that the average player?  Please tell me…..what does that say about me.  

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

You can act like 300lb men in their 30s who don’t play for 1.5 years aren’t more prone to get injured than your average player…..but you know what I’m saying is right. Argue more.
 

what says more about me than star?  That I don’t think he’s some special 1T that will come in and save the day?  That I don’t think he’s very good?  You said that harrison is probably the better 1T…..and Harrison isn’t THAT good.  That I think that super big guys that don’t play for 1.5 years are more likely to get hurt that the average player?  Please tell me…..what does that say about me.  

 

 

You're not right. You're indulging your prejudices.

 

You didn't say that the odds that Star might get injured are higher than for most Bills. That's true. You said you don't expect much of him and you said ...

 

 

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

 ... after which I said that if he plays, he’ll get hurt.

 

 

Yeah, you did say that, which pretty much proves my point. That's indulging your prejudices and pretending a wild-ass guess is a likelihood. Do 300 pound football players get injured more than, say 250 pound LBs or 220 pound RBs? Where's your evidence? Yeah, guys in their 30s get injured more than younger guys, but I don't see you talking about Hughes or Hyde or Addison or Taiwan Jones.

 

And I'd love to see your evidence that guys who take a year off get injured more often. Pretty sure guys like Harrison Phillips would love to see that evidence too.

 

What says more about you than Star? What you said. That you think following your biases rather than the probabilities will get you closer to a better guess. Generally it will not.

 

And here's an idea. You seem to be a poor summarizer, so if you want to respond to something I said, why don't you quote me? That way we won't have to go through the whole, "Um, no I did not say that," thing again and again.

 

For example, you said, "You said that harrison is probably the better 1T…..and Harrison isn’t THAT good." Yeah, um, no, I did not say that. Can you show me where I said that Harrison is probably the better 1T? Can you show me where I said Harrison isn't that good"? No, you can't, those are poor paraphrases. I didn't say those things. Nor would I, as I am not convinced of either one.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 11:28 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Agree that everything points to them focusing on pass rush impact over stay-at-home types like Star.   The actions ever since Star opted out have spoken loudly.

 

 ...

 

Phillips is a 1 tech DT.    He isn't a true NT........but the Bills don't play an odd front and Star isn't a NT-capable player either.   Even when strategically positioned  as a 1 tech to FORCE double teams Star was still often single blocked.   Neither are truly massive.   What was nice about Phillips pre-injury was that he was getting off blocks and making tackles........a trait that Star lacks and many fans just assume that is by design because they think he has the limited responsibilities of a NT.  

 

 

Their actions have indeed spoken loudly.

 

But there is no particular reason to think your interpretation of what they're saying is correct. None. There are many alternate explanations that explain what happened just as well or better.

 

For instance, there's no reason to think they're focusing  on pass rush impact over stay-at-home types like Star (at DT). I mean, they are at DE, of course, but beyond that there's no evidence that they're looking to phase out a big space-eater type, particularly on early downs. They brought in a guy last year who could do play both DT and DE, to possibly try to ramp up the pass rush on passing downs. That was Quinton Jefferson, and that didn't work out, precisely because Lotulelei opted out and they had to try to use small guys to fill big guy spots and it didn't work out all that well.

 

Then after the season they very publicly pointed out that the DL was too small (without Lotulelei and with a hampered Harry). They're not going to say, "We were too small," and try to get smaller.

 

Now - on passing downs - do they seem like they might bring Basham or Rousseau in to play DT for occasionally? Sure. But they were planning to do that last year with Jefferson, even before Star opted out.

 

There's no reason whatsoever to think they don't want a big ol' space eater at 1-tech in running situations and early downs.

 

And it's true that sometimes Star was single-blocked. But not that often on runs through the middle. He was generally doubled in that situation.

 

Yeah, it would be ideal if Star could get off blocks and make tackles. But having a space eater who doesn't need to make tackles really is in fact the McDermott design with Star as their 1-tech. You can say some things about McDermott, but you can't say he's a dummy. He brought in Star. Star had played on his team at Carolina. McDermott knew what he was and brought him in. They didn't think Lotulelei would suddenly in the cold Buffalo winds become a guy who could magically and unexplainably get off blocks he'd never gotten off of before. They brought him in knowing what he was because he fit the plan. It really does appear to be that simple.

 

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 6/1/2021 at 5:30 AM, 3rdand12 said:

Its possible Star was bought on as more of a very smart Vet who could bring the young horses into their own ?
and  1 tech was less important .
 I have seen him switch coverage via Edmunds on occasion plays !
 But the truth might be they have already moved on from him , and , that type of player.
 

I honestly expected them to draft a sincere 1tech fat kid who could hold his own against the run up the middle.
 But they did not. and that puts a nail in it. McDermott's  D Line Coaching /drafting theories.
 

 guys like Oliver and Phillips up front are the vision perhaps ?
 

 

 

Oliver is a 3-tech, and yeah, I'm sure he's the vision there.

 

But it seems likely that the reason they didn't bring in another big space-eater is two-fold.

 

1)  They are happier with Star than many fans are, and

 

2)  They draft BPA factoring in positions of need a bit, but not enough to ever reach, and maybe they simply didn't find a good non-reach situation to draft a big guy this year. Wouldn't be surprised to see them thinking about it next year as Star's contract approaches its end.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Caption this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQHJ7uUhrxK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Their actions have indeed spoken loudly.

 

But there is no particular reason to think your interpretation of what they're saying is correct. None. There are many alternate explanations that explain what happened just as well or better.

 

For instance, there's no reason to think they're focusing  on pass rush impact over stay-at-home types like Star (at DT). I mean, they are at DE, of course, but beyond that there's no evidence that they're looking to phase out a big space-eater type, particularly on early downs. They brought in a guy last year who could do play both DT and DE, to possibly try to ramp up the pass rush on passing downs. That was Quinton Jefferson, and that didn't work out, precisely because Lotulelei opted out and they had to try to use small guys to fill big guy spots and it didn't work out all that well.

 

Then after the season they very publicly pointed out that the DL was too small (without Lotulelei and with a hampered Harry). They're not going to say, "We were too small," and try to get smaller.

 

Now - on passing downs - do they seem like they might bring Basham or Rousseau in to play DT for occasionally? Sure. But they were planning to do that last year with Jefferson, even before Star opted out.

 

There's no reason whatsoever to think they don't want a big ol' space eater at 1-tech in running situations and early downs.

 

And it's true that sometimes Star was single-blocked. But not that often on runs through the middle. He was generally doubled in that situation.

 

Yeah, it would be ideal if Star could get off blocks and make tackles. But having a space eater who doesn't need to make tackles really is in fact the McDermott design with Star as their 1-tech. You can say some things about McDermott, but you can't say he's a dummy. He brought in Star. Star had played on his team at Carolina. McDermott knew what he was and brought him in. They didn't think Lotulelei would suddenly in the cold Buffalo winds become a guy who could magically and unexplainably get off blocks he'd never gotten off of before. They brought him in knowing what he was because he fit the plan. It really does appear to be that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

After they lost to the Chiefs they said they needed to get bigger,  were lacking at the TE position and needed more team speed.

 

The only one of those weaknesses they even addressed with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal was getting bigger at the LOS.

 

Basham is much bigger DE than a Jerry Hughes and more stout than Daryl Johnson........he is a Shaq-type build that they now can use on early downs and *hopefully* not sacrifice much in pass rush.    And Rousseau and Obada are giant sized DE's.

 

What they haven't addressed even once since Star opted out is a non-pass rush capable 1 tech type like Lotulelei.

 

So yes there is plenty of evidence that they aren't putting much stock into the position.    There have been plenty of big bodies available but they have rarely even tried any out let alone signed one to the PS or otherwise.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Caption this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQHJ7uUhrxK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It's bring your synthetic life partner to work day at OBD"

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're not right. You're indulging your prejudices.

 

You didn't say that the odds that Star might get injured are higher than for most Bills. That's true. You said you don't expect much of him and you said ...

 

I don’t expect much of him.  I saw him play in 2019 and didn’t think much of him then. 1.5 years off and I don’t see any reason why he would improve.  

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yeah, you did say that, which pretty much proves my point. That's indulging your prejudices and pretending a wild-ass guess is a likelihood. Do 300 pound football players get injured more than, say 250 pound LBs or 220 pound RBs? Where's your evidence? Yeah, guys in their 30s get injured more than younger guys, but I don't see you talking about Hughes or Hyde or Addison or Taiwan Jones.

 

And I'd love to see your evidence that guys who take a year off get injured more often. Pretty sure guys like Harrison Phillips would love to see that evidence too.

 

What says more about you than Star? What you said. That you think following your biases rather than the probabilities will get you closer to a better guess. Generally it will not.

again.  What does that say about me?  Is the bolded you’re answer?  
 

I didn’t see any probabilities listed.  Is it documented somewhere that 300lb 30+ year old players that take 1.5 years off have the same probability of getting injured as the average player?   Last I knew Harrison phillips isn’t 30+ years old, so I don’t see how he’s relevant 

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

And here's an idea. You seem to be a poor summarizer, so if you want to respond to something I said, why don't you quote me? That way we won't have to go through the whole, "Um, no I did not say that," thing again and again.

 

For example, you said, "You said that harrison is probably the better 1T…..and Harrison isn’t THAT good." Yeah, um, no, I did not say that. Can you show me where I said that Harrison is probably the better 1T? Can you show me where I said Harrison isn't that good"? No, you can't, those are poor paraphrases. I didn't say those things. Nor would I, as I am not convinced of either one.

 

 

Yes, I can be a poor summarizer.  I misread your post.  

[Thurman#1]

On 6/15/2021 at 10:23 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

After they lost to the Chiefs they said they needed to get bigger,  were lacking at the TE position and needed more team speed.

 

The only one of those weaknesses they even addressed with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal was getting bigger at the LOS.

 

Basham is much bigger DE than a Jerry Hughes and more stout than Daryl Johnson........he is a Shaq-type build that they now can use on early downs and *hopefully* not sacrifice much in pass rush.    And Rousseau and Obada are giant sized DE's.

 

What they haven't addressed even once since Star opted out is a non-pass rush capable 1 tech type like Lotulelei.

 

So yes there is plenty of evidence that they aren't putting much stock into the position.    There have been plenty of big bodies available but they have rarely even tried any out let alone signed one to the PS or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

Here's where you're factually wrong:

 

You said, "After they lost to the Chiefs they said they needed to get bigger,  were lacking at the TE position and needed more team speed. The only one of those weaknesses they even addressed with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal was getting bigger at the LOS." And then implied they hadn't done anything to address those concerns.

 

Remind me, did they say, "we needed to get bigger," or did they say, "We need to get bigger using what some guy on the internet would call a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal?"

 

Did they say, "we are lacking at TE" at all? Or did they say that nobody feared them at TE? Did they anywhere say, "We need to bring in a TE with a blue chip pick or above minimum FA deal"?

 

Same with team speed. They addressed it with Rousseau, with Breida, with Wildgoose, with Marquez Stevenson, by bringing McKenzie back ... if we're very lucky, Christian Wade may even turn out to be useable team speed. Yeah, Rousseau and Basham are big. But Rousseau in particular is also sudden. And while he's tall, he's 266 and athletic.

 

And remind me, didn't they bring in an extremely big "Shaq-type" DE last year, in Epenesa? What happened with him and weight again? I can't remember, did they tell him to stay big and muscular?

 

They didn't change what they're looking for in the slightest. They've always wanted long DEs. Rousseau and Basham are long. Epenesa is long. They've always wanted tough DEs, and the new guys are tough, as are the old ones. They had a problem, not enough talented pass rushers last year, and they worked hard towards solving that problem with their first two picks.

 

They addressed all three of the concerns you bring up. Not least by just sitting back with a smile and watching Star Lotulelei come back to make DE size more impressive on early downs. That itself addressed that need.

 

They didn't promise to address things in a way that you would approve of. By your record on the Bills, very little would clear that bar anyway.

 

But did the FO address those needs? Yeah. Not least by welcoming back Star Lotulelei.

 

So, no, there is zero evidence "they aren't putting much stock into the position." They brought back Star, a guy who is under contract for three more years. They may well feel that he's enough, or that other options they liked for backups were either picked before they were good value, or would cost too much in FA to bring in, though the offseason is as yet far from over.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Thurman#1

[billsfan89]

In the first five games of 2019 Harrison was playing really well. He got hurt (and the run defense slipped into a bad state for the middle of the season) and came back in 2020 not playing at nearly the same level. Hopefully a full season removed from his major 2019 injury (which did happen 5 games into the season) he can return to form. Sadly in 2020 Harrison was mostly a forgettable rotation player. Not tragic as he can play rotational snaps but kind of a JAG. Hopefully with a more normal and regimented off-season and more time removed from injury helps him. 

[Thurman#1]

 

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

How does brining a player back address team speed? 😅

 

 

Heh heh. Did you see him run through that drill? Like it or not, the man's a rival to Marquez Stevenson now.