Fairburn would swap Allen for Mahomes. Would you?

[chongli]

This thread reminded me of an old thread on the former BBMB years ago which asked in a poll "Would you trade JP Losman for Tom Brady straight up?", and a lot of people said no, lol. My answer to this current poll is no. I haven't read the whole thread, but put simply:

 

1. Josh is younger, and cheaper for another year.

2. Josh has (a little) stronger arm.

3. Josh's ceiling is higher.

4. Josh is a better rusher.

5. Josh is bigger, and, presumably, less injury-prone (if he doesn't run too much).

6. Josh is more athletic.

7. As people have mentioned, Josh is a better fit for Buffalo. He reminds me of Jim Kelly with his attitude. He is loyal and loves Buffalo.

8. Josh has demonstrated growth, especially in accuracy and decision making, and commitment

9. Josh has already developed a good relationship with the team.

 

Now if he could just protect the ball better! 😃

Edited May 24, 2021 by chongli

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

As great as Allen was last year, Mahomes is the better QB until The Bills can win a Super Bowl and start consistently beating the Chiefs.   With that being said, I would not make the trade.   Both players are perfect fits for their team and culture and I am not sure that either one would improve in their new scenario.

Swap them.  Put Allen on Kc and Mahomes on Buffalo.  Do you feel Buffalo would be favored over Kc?  I dont.  Does Manning or Rodgers win more if they played in NE?  Yes they do. 

[Rico]

42 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

When did this become the narrative? Allen was the best player on the field in that game. We won the game primarily because of his play. He made ONE mistake.

Josh looked far better in all 3 playoff games last year than the Rat did in his Super Bowl meltdown.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

Actually, these sorts of discussions in sports ARE all about “what ifs” and the like.  Yes, we can only see what has occurred, but we can openly wonder what would happen in different circumstances.  My opinion is that if you asked all NFL GMs the question of whether they wanted Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen right now, going forward, it would not be 32-0.

We can discuss it, but I don’t see one iota of evidence that suggests that allen is better than Mahomes.  During the season that Allen edged Mahomes in mvp votes, Mahomes went 2-0 vs allen head to head watching Allen flounder in each game and ended his season in embarrassing fashion.  
 

If we’re discussing the future, I’ll bow out of that conversation because I don’t claim to tell the future very often.  All I’ll say is that 17 definitely has a chance to be better and I think he may eventually be the best qb in the league......but he hasn’t proven than to me yet.  He’s been great for one season, while Mahomes has been one of the greatest for 3, possibly having the best start to a career for any player in league history.  One great season, with no fans in the stands isn’t enough to have a real debate about this imo

[Boxcar]

I voted no while being fully aware that Mahomes is better right now and there's a solid chance he'll always be better. I just would rather ride or die with Josh.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Boxcar

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I don't disagree when looking at the entire careers. Mahomes is absolutely the safer bet when looking at all three years of each player starting. But as I said, it's another way to look at the debate. Looking at ONLY 2020 for both players does seem to make more sense in a debate of the here and now and into the future. Particularly with Allen where 2018 just feels completely irrelevant and there's not an apples to apples comparison because Mahomes didn't play his rookie year and started out the gate with two future HOF level talents.

 

Head to head? Is that relevant in what is the ultimate team sport? For years Peyton was the best QB in the game despite Brady and the Patriots getting the better of him year after year. But you couldn't find anyone outside of New England that would say Brady was better than Peyton. Not until at least 2007 and really, probably even later like 2011. 

 

The losses to KC and the offenses below average production in both games is in large part due to scheme. Bills offense is entirely too WR centric to match up well against the Chiefs defense. If that doesn't change there's a very good chance the Bills and Allen will face the same fate next year against the Chiefs when we play them. That won't mean at all that Allen can't end up having again the better MVP season like he had last year. 

Like I said, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.  Outside of a bills website, you won’t find many, if any; that agree with you.   Allen is ascending and may eventually be better.  He hasn’t proven that he’s better imo and in the opinion of most football fans outside of bills mafia

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

199 (including me) JA homers vs 61 unfaithful bandwagon fans. if choosing JA over mahomes is being a homer,  I'll gladly claim to be the biggest one on the board then.

 

I had no idea there were so many kc fans on the board.

 

 

 

That makes a lot of sense actually as this this thread basically turned into Homer Circle Jerk and Josh Allen Blind Loyalty Litmus Test.  Sad.

 

I’m rooting for Allen because he’s the Bills QB.  I believe him to be capable of taking that final step, but I’m not giving him credit for doing so until he does.  If he takes a step or two backwards I’ll still root for him, but I’d want an upgrade. That just means that I root for the team, not a player over the team, and that I understand things like logic. 

[TheFunPolice]

As crazy as it sounds, Allen might end up being as good or better than Mahomes.

 

You would be swapping a great player for a great player at the same position. It really doesn't make sense to do that, unless it's a Russell Wilson for Aaron Rodgers type deal where both guys are unhappy and everyone ends up winning.

 

BTW, how fun is it that this is a conversation, instead of arguing amongst ourselves over whether ________ is a "franchise QB"

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

When did this become the narrative? Allen was the best player on the field in that game. We won the game primarily because of his play. He made ONE mistake.

No doubt.  It’s a terrible take that you’re replying to.  17 is the ONLY reason we won that game.  He was amazing 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Though chiefs fans would not like to acknowledge you have to factor in Mahomes’ concussion history. 

Only one of them has had a concussion, and it isn’t Mahomes.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I’ve gotten used to our guy. So let’s just keep him... 

[JESSEFEFFER]

31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Like I said, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.  Outside of a bills website, you won’t find many, if any; that agree with you.   Allen is ascending and may eventually be better.  He hasn’t proven that he’s better imo and in the opinion of most football fans outside of bills mafia

By most measures, Josh had a better 2020 than Mahomes did.  He is ascending as you say and has yet to show a seasonal regression in performance.although maybe we'll see it this year.  Mahomes was more what he is now right out of the box in a much better offense but he has not equaled the 2018 season in his last two.  When your first full year as starter is an MVP performance, it's tough to see it go up from there.  If you believe in trends and projections then Josh looks to be his equal over the next decade.   He is our guy and we should be happy to ride with him and see where this thing goes.  

[TH3]

Eff No!

 

I can't believe people would swap.....Smh

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, dpberr said:

I said no for two reasons:

 

1.  I think the injuries will start to accrue for PM this year.  I don't think that foot is ever going to be 100%.  He had a pretty severe case of turf toe that required a plate, and that's going to nag each and every season.  That's not to say Josh Allen will zip through his career Tom Brady style, but I think PM will be more limited not only as a season goes on, but with each new year too.   

 

2.  Andy Reid's time on the sidelines is closer to the end than it is the beginning, and you really don't know if his system makes PM great or PM is just great. The Andy Reid system can make quarterbacks look incredible (see Nick Foles).  I think the McDermott-Allen relationship has more years in it.  

 

Nick Foles? He was pretty pedestrian for Reid. His best years came in Kelly and Pederson's systems.

[TheFunPolice]

Mahomes reminds me so much of Peyton Manning. Of course there are differences in their games (Mahomes is more mobile, but most QBs are) but both want the big chunk plays. Peyton wasn't thought of as having a strong arm, but he wanted big chunk passes, and that's why his teams struggled sometimes in the playoffs. You could take that away and force him to nickel and dime you, which frustrated him, and he would still try those throws and start making mistakes. Manning wanted to chuck it deep every play if he could. 

 

Brady would (and will) happily take 5, 7, 11, 7 , 10, 15, 7, and all of a sudden it's first and goal. 

 

Like Manning's teams, the Chiefs want to send their track stars on 45 yard routes. When it doesn't work their offense doesn't work (see the Super Bowl). Yes, the OL was an issue, but when they get frustrated they try to force things deep, thinking that any moment Hill will get open for a 60 yard TD. It works a lot of the time, so you can't blame them I guess. 

 

Hey, Peyton went to 4 Super Bowls and has 2 rings, so it worked out OK. Mahomes will probably get more cracks at rings in his career. He's already been to 2 Super Bowls in 3 seasons as a starter, and really should have been in 3 straight. 

 

How does this relate to Allen's game?

 

To me, the most surprising thing is how Allen has quickly become a much more polished passer than most of us expected. He isn't just a super athletic big guy who can jump over LBers and chuck the ball 70 yards. He's still that, but now he also is becoming incredibly proficient in distributing the ball and protecting himself from taking those big shots. 

 

At the end of the day, if Allen continues on this trajectory the Bills are going to win a Super Bowl, because if you have a great HC (we do) and a top 5 QB (we very well might and maybe already do) then you're going to  play in the big game at least once. 

 

 

[Greg S]

It's not all on Allen here when it comes to Mahomes and KC. The Bills have to be better than the Chiefs. Remember the 1st game between the teams. The Chiefs ran the ball down the Bills throats. It felt like they had 1000 yards rushing that day. While Allen does have to play well against them the Bills as a team also need to be much better.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Greg S
added word

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

It's not all on Allen here when it comes to Mahomes and KC. The Bills have to be better than the Chiefs. Remember the 1st game between the teams. The Chiefs ran the ball down the Bills throats. It felt like they had 1000 yards rushing that day. While Allen does have to play well against them the Bills as a team also need to be much better.

 

This is why I'm hoping that either Star has been putting in the work in the dining room this offseason, or we pick up a free agent giant man to play DT

[WyoAZBillfan]

Not a chance. They are both where they are supposed to be for now. Being a Wyoming fan, Allen going to Buffalo was a huge bonus for me as well.

[BornAgainBillsFan]

We've been watching Mahomes do his thing for the several years now, and we're used to it. But if there was some sort of swap done, and we had to watch Josh light it up with the Chiefs?? Well, that's like watching my ex-wife be happy with another guy. And that's no way to live!

[ngbills]

Mahomes is still the better QB. If Allen has two more years similar to last year then he will be in the same category. But I do think Allen is the right QB for how this team is designed. Allen at times plays the role of RB1 and I just dont see Mahomes being suited for that. If we did some roster maneuvers you could make a supporting cast better suited for Mahomes and that ceiling could be higher. But with this team, right now, Allen is the best for the job.