Bills exercise 5th year options on QB Josh Allen & LB Tremaine Edmunds

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I guess you'd know better than I if they're not haters. But that's how they come across. They're not realists, not even close. Something along the lines of Edmunds chronic underestimators. The team makes it obvious again and again that they like the guy, that the FO thinks he's doing a good job, after he got healthy anyway. And these people continue not to get it. They've said again and again that it's too much money, as you say here.

 

And thing is, it's not. This is a front office that is all about careful cap management. Not that they've been perfect at it of course. Nobody is. But overall they've gotten good value and the overpayments have pretty much been for FAs from other teams. You folks are saying it's too much because you're not looking at his role the way the Bills do. 

 

The realists are the people who thought it was wildly likely that he'd be given the option, that he was worth it and it wasn't really a question. The ones who were proven right here.

 

Not that he doesn't need to keep improving. They all do, every player. He's certainly one that does, and I think he's already talking about how he's going to improve next year. But he's also a really good player. They gave him that money because he's worth it.

 

The kids do say FACTS. A lot of them say it about things that are clearly wacky, though, and that's the way it looks here as well.

 

Hater may not be the right word, but Edmunds is chronically underestimated and attacked by people who are theoretically fans of the team and the players.

 

 

 

 

I respect the **** out of you as a poster.  First off, I shouldn’t have spoken for all the haters. I’ve been called an Edmunds hater before, so I spoke for myself.  Other “haterz” may feel differently. 
 

But one can be a realist and not see things in the same light as other realists.  It doesn’t mean that people are “haterz” because they don’t feel a player is worth the money they are paid. 
 

you say they gave him the money because he was worth it.  Why did they give Addison the money?  Why did they give star the money?  Are you saying that every player that gets paid is worth it because the team feels that he’s worth it?   Or just the players that you feel are worth it? 
 

Without knowing the future, I knew that we would give him the 5th year option or resign him long term.  I didn’t want to just let him go after next season hoping for a comp pick in return.  We invested a lot in him and letting him slide away and get nothing would’ve been a negative move imo.  I think he has tremendous potential and still has a chance to be a special player.  I don’t feel he’s a special MLB based on his play last year.  
 

if you watched his play last season and thought that he was a legit pro bowl caliber player, I would just have to question how you evaluate LB play.  His play last season was not pro bowl worthy.  That’s reality, not hating.  I watch games.  Then I watch every game again and possibly a third time.  I watched a lot of Edmunds last year.  His lack of decisiveness is evident and not congruent with the way “great LBs” react. He is far too easily manipulated by the qb and play action
 

if you think he was a great LB last season, so be it.  You’re entitled to your opinion.  I disagree.  And that doesn’t make me a hater.  Saying that I don’t think he’s worth 12.7M doesn’t make me a hater.  
 

others.....well, other might very well be haters.  I’m not.  I don't underestimate him. i see what i see and i stand by my evaluations and i question those that think he was worthy of being a pro bowler.  the only reason he made it, imo, is because the AFC didnt have anyone worthy

 

if you think he worth the $ simply because the FO feels that way, that’s your right.  It mine to feel otherwise without being labeled

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

As posted elsewhere, FOUR of our draft picks from this weekend are older than Edmunds. Let's give him all 5 years and see where we're at.

 It is still crazy to think about how young he is.   I think this will be a breakout year for him.

[appoo]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well I disagree with your last line, so there is that. He played better than the first half of the season and he had a couple of really good games - San Fran and Pitt stand out in my mind - but I don't think it was his best consistent run of football. I think his regression was a number of factors. Injury, dline issues in front of him both factored in but it was also in part teams looking at film of him in 2019 and adjusting the way they tried to attack the middle of the field against us. They exposed his relative weakness in terms if play recognition and instincts and baited him into areas of the field they wanted him in to attack space behind him.

Fair rebuttal, even though I might disagree with it here and there.

 

I'm hoping to see better from him with an off-season of studying what teams threw at him, as that's a really good point of offenses actually game planning against him last year, for the first time - and coaches helping him out during the OTA camps in the spring/summer to adjust and get him brtter.

[Shaw66]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The minutia is not worth arguing with you about it.   You have yourself tied in a knot of reasoning.   It's not that complicated.

 

His lack of impact is broad........he isn't good against the run..........he isn't a good blitzer..........his pass coverage leaves plenty to be desired..........and he doesn't make plays in the backfield or on the football........the kinds of plays that change games.

 

I don't know why you keep arguing.   We all get it:  Edmunds doesn't do enough of the things that you think he should do.  They're things I think he should do, too.   All I've said is that I suspect he does things that you and I don't see that McDermott values more than the things you do.  

 

I'm not in One Bills Drive.  I don't know.  But I think if we could ask McDermott, he would tell us that Edmunds does things that make the defense successful, things that don't show up in stats that you and I look at.  

 

It's not a point you can argue against without looking foolish.   I've put forward a theory that you can't disprove.   It's also a theory I can't prove, because McDermott isn't having that conversation with us.  

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Shaw66

[BuffaloRebound]

Immense physical talent and being in the right spot is what makes him a really frustrating player.  I think we can all agree that he has to start making some game changing plays.  I can live with the 5th year option being exercised because he’s still only 23 years old but there’s no way I’m committing more money to him beyond 2022 without some difference making plays this year.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Shocker 😎

Two cornerstone pieces for years to come. 

All but guarantees Edmunds and obviously Allen get extended 

Doesn't guarantee anything for Edmunds.  In fact it does the opposite. It buys them an extra year to make a decision on whether he is the MLB of the future.

[billsfan_34]

25 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

PLEASE! Don’t encourage the Mental Facility escapee! The white coats are on the chase and the overdue lobotomy is ready to be performed!

 

25 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

PLEASE! Don’t encourage the Mental Facility escapee! The white coats are on the chase and the overdue lobotomy is ready to be performed!

Ha, I shall step back off the ledge now 😂

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

This has to be the weakest argument ever.  I mean really, ever.  If you want to go down this road, we got blown out in the AFC Championship game and had some of Beanes prize pigs on the inactive list, maybe if we had those huge contracts actually playing, we could have competed.

OK 😜

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, appoo said:

Fair rebuttal, even though I might disagree with it here and there.

 

I'm hoping to see better from him with an off-season of studying what teams threw at him, as that's a really good point of offenses actually game planning against him last year, for the first time - and coaches helping him out during the OTA camps in the spring/summer to adjust and get him brtter.

 

Thanks. As I say I consider myself middle of the road on Edmunds. There would be as many who consider me an apologist as there are who consider me a hater. I think a lot of the Bills woes on defense last year came down to how bad they were on 1st down. I have tried to pull the numbers but can't find them anywhere. My guess is we were towards the bottom of the league in 1st down defense. I think that hurts Edmunds too because it is hard to do quite as much misdirection and play action when you are constantly at 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 8. That forced you more into a dropback game which is where McDermott and Frazier want to be able to have Edmunds affect the passer with his range in coverage. Now the counter to that of course is a true 1st round level difference maker shouldn't need his big uglies to set the table for him to that extent but we all know that this defense and McDermott's ethos is about doing your 1/11th.

[ColoradoBills]

Good move.  Beane and McDermott now have 2 years do decide on Edmunds and his contract.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

57 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Yep, no chance anyone would question the Messiah.  Forget the fact we could have used the transition tag on him next year at little cost difference, but why not guarantee $13M to a guy who isn’t a top 10 player at his position, when we have to give Allen a deal and you are already up against the cap?  Why not keep the flexibility?  Why take the risk?  What happens if he goes out at pulls a Shazier or Eric Wood?  Now, no matter what, you are paying him.  It’s not a good decision and I don’t care how much I get flamed for it.

Extending Allen does nothing to the cap for 2021 and very little for 2022. Its an extension not a new contract

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Thank you, that is where a MLB earns his money... There are a lot of Edmunds truthers on this board... He's been average to below.  He should be a great cover backer but he isn't, his size and speed should allow him into the backfield for negative plays all the time but it doesn't... 

 

My biggest worry have been those instincts to head off plays rather than chase them down and ability to finish when Frazier turns him loose on blitzes...

 

Will not say that he cannot turn it around, just that he needs to play better.

 

Not going to argue with the capologists here either - not my thing. I do know that Beane has started locking in some players they feel will make up this team's core.

 

It is always a gamble, just hope the Bills player investments pan out and they are not saddled with too much dead cap down the road.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well I disagree with your last line, so there is that. He played better than the first half of the season and he had a couple of really good games - San Fran and Pitt stand out in my mind - but I don't think it was his best consistent run of football. I think his regression was a number of factors. Injury, dline issues in front of him both factored in but it was also in part teams looking at film of him in 2019 and adjusting the way they tried to attack the middle of the field against us. They exposed his relative weakness in terms if play recognition and instincts and baited him into areas of the field they wanted him in to attack space behind him.

I like your two posts.   I think they state the case fairly. 

 

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not sure that he's relatively weak in play recognition and instincts.   His instincts aren't great, I'll grant you, but I don't think that's what happened.   I think Edmunds has a bigger defensive assignment, a larger area to cover, than typical middle linebackers.   I think the Bills do it by design - it's part of denying explosive plays.  Protect the sideline and the deep zones, funnel everything to the middle and challenge our speedy, long-armed MLB to stop it all.   I think what's happened is that, as always happens, offenses have figured out how to attack the least well-defended space and get relatively easy completions, not because Edmunds has bad instincts or doesn't recognize plays, but because he can't possibly cover all that he's asked to cover if the offense wants to attack there.   Mahomes clearly was running options against Edmunds' pass defense.  

 

Frazier will adjust, disguise more, give Edmunds more help - I think one thing they like about Rousseau is that he seems to have the ability drop into coverage (he said as much in one of his interviews), and I think we'll see him sometimes back their plugging gaps in the short zones.  And I don't mean more help for Edmunds because he is underskilled; it's more help because he's asked to do more than the typical MLB. 

 

Frankly, what I want to see out of Edmunds is more consistent, authoritative tackling.  Hit the guy and take him down; don't just grab him.  

[Shaw66]

59 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Thank you, that is where a MLB earns his money... There are a lot of Edmunds truthers on this board... He's been average to below.  He should be a great cover backer but he isn't, his size and speed should allow him into the backfield for negative plays all the time but it doesn't... 

I'd like to be able to compare film, side-by-side, of Edmunds and Milano.  Especially on the blitzes and running plays.  Milano seems to do more of what we'd like to see Edmunds do:  recognize, attack, make the tackle.   

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Talent doesn't mean much if not realized in on-field play. 

I am surprised that Edmunds' option was picked up but can't say I am disappointed as I trust Beane to have a plan for his contract. We will see how things progress but LB is one position where we seem to be the weakest in terms of starters and depth. 

Why are you surprised?  It was never a question.  He’s a good player.  Can he improve?  Most definitely.  But this narrative that he’s no good or below average or even average is koo-koo. 

[BillsfaninSB]

If Josh gets a new deal this summer can the 5th year be voided or is it required to be honored now that it has been exercised?

[OrtonHearsaWho]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Really?  Let me just ask you, how much has Murphy’s contribution been since he was signed? Let’s take a look at Norman, how about the guaranteed money to sign our inactive 3rd-ish string running back or the 10M a year for a non-Star at 1 tech, maybe take a look at last years defensive disaster he managed to put out there, with all of his lineman he signed being so bad they were forced to take pay cuts or leave, this is the Messiah you are following?  He signed exactly one starting player this offseason, a 34 year old “speed” receiver after releasing one, who could have been restructured for far less based on his new contract.   Which, hey, let’s talk about 9M a year for Brown?  How about that deal?  Man, this guy is greatness defined.

 

And he re-signed 3 starters...two of them being very good starters and at outstanding price tags.  As far as Sanders...I would tend to think that most here think he's an improvement over Brown and even if we kept Brown he'd be gone after this year anyway so what's the difference?  What other free agents would you have wanted us to sign that wouldn't have been categorized as Beane spending money poorly...that's paraphrasing your 1st post here.

 

If you don't like Edmunds, that's fine and is a pretty easy argument to defend quite often last year but to say Beane is objectively bad at contracts is just wrong.  Sure there have been some misses but if 100% perfection in a league that very rarely gets it perfect is your standard, then you must be a load of fun to watch a game with.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

It's stunning that you could watch this offseason unfold and come away with this conclusion.

There is always some guy who knows better than the most successful GM we have had since Polian, 

 

They as well make themselves sound foolish, to be polite..., 

[Punching Bag]

5 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

If Josh gets a new deal this summer can the 5th year be voided or is it required to be honored now that it has been exercised?

 

They can do what KC did with Mahomes - give him an extension with same cap hit this year and next with guaranteed bonuses down the pipe.

[Boxcar]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

PLEASE! Don’t encourage the Mental Facility escapee! The white coats are on the chase and the overdue lobotomy is ready to be performed!

Sure. I was informed that I am not allowed to converse with him until I get smarter, anyway.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Immense physical talent and being in the right spot is what makes him a really frustrating player.  I think we can all agree that he has to start making some game changing plays.  I can live with the 5th year option being exercised because he’s still only 23 years old but there’s no way I’m committing more money to him beyond 2022 without some difference making plays this year.  

Let me get this straight...you’re referring to Edmunds here, not Allen...right?