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5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Our run game stunk vs more than just the best run defenses.  We couldn’t run at all vs the chiefs in either game.  Their run d wasn’t good.  The Patriots had the worst front 7 in football last season.  Denver had a terrible run D.  The chargers run D was worse than ours.  Seems to me like we could  only run vs the worst of the run defenses. 
 

The one drive closing out the steeler game was the best of the best for our run game last year.  


It’s been brought up ad nauseam in the media and here that our run game was nonexistent and a major problem.....if we could run when we wanted to (which we all know was far and few in between) it wouldn’t be a problem. Come playoff time, I doubt we’re going to be playing the worst run defenses week after week.  It needs to get fixed or teams will do what the chiefs did to us..... 💯 disregard our run game.....and still hold our starting Rb to 2.8 ypc in the AFCCG and 3.2 during the season.  

I thought the problem against the Chiefs offensively were complete breakdowns along the offensive line on 3rd downs and receivers struggling to get open on those 3rd downs.... causing Allen to run backwards get sacked for an incredible loss of yardage or throw an INC pass. 

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4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Nope.  Dane Jackson has played a whopping 231 NFL snaps in 5 games - including 193 on defense.  He’s very far from proven.  Only 2021 first round rookie Newsome and 2020 second rounder Delpit fall below that, neither having taken a snap.  With the veterans the Browns have at CB and S neither of them even has to start anyway.

Hill is a slot DB going to play corner for the Browns on a 2 year/$9M deal, and Ward is basically Wallace. Maybe a little better. Their safeties are fine. Ours are AllPro caliber.

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2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Hill is a slot DB going to play corner for the Browns on a 2 year/$9M deal, and Ward is basically Wallace. Maybe a little better. Their safeties are fine. Ours are AllPro caliber.

Haha. Ward is basically Wallace? 

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32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I thought the problem against the Chiefs offensively were complete breakdowns along the offensive line on 3rd downs and receivers struggling to get open on those 3rd downs.... causing Allen to run backwards get sacked for an incredible loss of yardage or throw an INC pass. 

Oh yeah....I agree.  Our WRs weren’t getting open (likely due to injury and the referees allowing the chiefs to play super aggressive, but not in the SB for w/Ed reason). But you have to look at why the OL broke down.  I believe a lot of it had to do with chiefs blitzing the entire game.  Why were they able to blitz the entire game?  Because they were able to completely disregard our run game and screens to our RBs.  Our run game was booty last season and I disagree with anyone who says that it wasn’t.  I said mid season, unless our run game improves, there is going to be a team that is able to take away our pass and our season will be over unless our D revives itself.  Out D improved, but not enough.....and our season ended because a team took away our pass because they were able to disregard our run game.  We were the passing version of the ravens.  We stifled their run....their season was over.  

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51 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

5-0 if we count the playoffs too I think

Great point.

 

"The AFC EAST is soooooooooo much easier!!" - guy whose team lost to the f@#$ing Jets with the playoffs on the line.

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3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Great point.

 

"The AFC EAST is soooooooooo much easier!!" - guy whose team lost to the f@#$ing Jets with the playoffs on the line.

For purely selfish reasons I hope these are the same soothsayers who called Miami the class of the division midseason

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Posted (edited)

 

The knee-jerk reactions are funny as this is a plausible take.

 

Folks can assume the Browns will stay in the basement forever. The same was thought about the Bills not that long ago.

 

I thought the Browns had more balance with their run game keeping the Chiefs' defense off balance and better controlling the game flow and their defense had a better showing bottling up Mahomes than we did.

 

They were solid down the stretch so not a shocker if they can build on that with their additions.

 

Always a crap shoot with key injuries over the season so just get into the post season and you never know...team's can peak down the stretch.

 

Our interior oline got ragdolled against KC and not many changes there so the gamble is that a healthy Ford back and Mongo fully healing can turn that around.... And, hoping we will run better against those defensive fronts that can drop 7 into coverage.

 

Beane invested in our oline, but with rookies that will need to be developed and center/guard was not a priority focus of his draft rather OT and up the middle is where we struggled.

 

I do expect more from our defense this year. The X-factor. With Star back and the infusion of youth along the defensive front.... they seem to have a lot of confidence in a healthy Dane Jackson. Enough that they said meh to drafting another DB in the 2nd.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Haha. Ward is basically Wallace? 

 

Yea so I am not the biggest fan of Ward as an outside corner (I maintain eventually they will move him into the slot and he will be elite - the best slot in the NFL) but he is still a lot better than Levi. 

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44 minutes ago, Process said:

A 21 page thread debating Bills vs Browns, in May?!

 

Bills fans really are insecure.

 

I think bored is more likely... we briefly got a pulse up for the draft and are flat-lining again.

 

Sucks as over a decade ago I could just switch to following the Sabres, but they have been an epic dumpster fire managing to miss the post season forever.

 

Oh well... have to wait for the paddles when OBD releases the next shocking Bills uni change, or see how much we can milk arguing about the schedule when it is officially released.

 

Harder to wait now that we have a competitive team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/2/2021 at 1:25 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

The Chiefs entered the off season after getting man handled in the Super Bowl because their O-line had fallen apart.  They blew up their O-line and decided to rebuild.  On paper at least, they look to have improved the line.  They signed Joe Thuney to a 5 year $80 million contract and he will slide into the left guard position.  They then signed Kyle Long to a one year deal to step into the right guard position.  They resigned Mike Remmers to play right tackle and then traded with the Ravens for Orlando Brown to step in as their left tackle.  They signed Austin Blythe from the Rams to play center, and then drafted the 2nd ranked center, Creed Humphrey, to push Blythe and develop into their future center.  The only free agent they lost of any consequence was Sammy Watkins which should not slow them down much.

 

I think on the whole the O-line is upgraded and they kept the rest of the band together.  I don't see any reasonable argument to say the Chiefs shouldn't remain the #1 seed in the AFC heading into the 2021 season.

 

The Browns will leap frog us this season and be the primary threat to the Chiefs.   If you look at the playoffs last year, the Browns came within a fumbled football out of the endzone from beating the Chiefs.  The Bills by comparison didn't even make a game of it against the Chiefs.  The Browns' roster seems to match up better against the Chiefs, and that was before the Browns very impressive off season.

 

The defense was the weak side of the ball last season and the Browns attacked this off season with that in mind.  They snagged John Johnson the best free agent safety on the market to address a huge weakness and also added CB Troy Hill who will be an instant upgrade.  They brought in Clowney to stack opposite Miles Garrett on the D-line.  They then drafted CB Greg Newsome and LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah who should both start this season.  The Browns bring back their offense intact and Mayfield will have the benefit of playing in the same offense for the first time in his career.  OBJ will also be back this season.

 

The Bills did a great job of resigning their key free agents this year and also upgraded the backup QB position.  They brought in Sanders to replace Brown which could be an up grade and added Hollister to the TE room.  We all hope that having Star back will have a ripple effect on the D-line and result in better play across the entire line and allow our LB play to improve as well.  The entire team will benefit from another year of coaching and scheme stability and hopefully some of our young players like Oliver and Edmunds will take a step forward this year.

 

 

Overview   A lot is made of the Bills retaining their own talent, and I agree that Beane did a great job of maintaining a roster that made it to the AFC Championship game, but the uncomfortable truth is that the Chiefs maintained their roster too AND improved their O-Line.   The Browns also avoided any key free agency loses AND improved their defensive secondary and brought in Clowney on the D-line.  The Browns and Chiefs will also benefit from another year of coaching and scheme stability just like the Bills.

 

The off season isn't over yet, but the free agency period is winding down and the Draft is over.  Baring injuries, any changes to the rosters of the Chiefs, Browns, and Bills before opening weekend will likely just be on the margins before opening weekend.  When Andy Reid looks out across the AFC, I think he is probably more worried about what is going on in Cleveland than what is going on in Buffalo.  I think the Browns have improved enough this off season to move past us and become the primary threat to the Chiefs this year. 

 

At this point I'd rank the AFC;    1. Chiefs  2. Browns  3. Bills

I disagree, I think if the Browns came to Orchard Park for the AFC Championship game last year that we were going to Tampa. I don't think the Browns stood a chance on our home field and even if the game was in Cleveland, I think we still would have beat them

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4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Hill is a slot DB going to play corner for the Browns on a 2 year/$9M deal, and Ward is basically Wallace. Maybe a little better. Their safeties are fine. Ours are AllPro caliber.

 

Johnson is a top tier safety. Ward is pretty close to White, he's just injured more than you'd like. Hill will be in the slot as he has been. 

 

They now have Newsome to go along with Ward, Hill, Greedy Williams, and Delpit back at safety. Ronnie Harrison is pretty decent too 

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3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Oh yeah....I agree.  Our WRs weren’t getting open (likely due to injury and the referees allowing the chiefs to play super aggressive, but not in the SB for w/Ed reason). But you have to look at why the OL broke down.  I believe a lot of it had to do with chiefs blitzing the entire game.  Why were they able to blitz the entire game?  Because they were able to completely disregard our run game and screens to our RBs.  Our run game was booty last season and I disagree with anyone who says that it wasn’t.  I said mid season, unless our run game improves, there is going to be a team that is able to take away our pass and our season will be over unless our D revives itself.  Out D improved, but not enough.....and our season ended because a team took away our pass because they were able to disregard our run game.  We were the passing version of the ravens.  We stifled their run....their season was over.  

The Bills had no response to the Chiefs blitzes. It was infuriating to watch... I'd have to go back and watch but I thought Yeldon was getting at least 4 yards a pop. Not great, but not awful either. I think the screaming about the lack of a run game was a bit of an overreaction. The Bills didnt run the ball all year and their offense was incredibly efficient.....  Again, the issue was on 3rd downs. Specifically after they went up 9-0. They had no answer for the Chiefs blitzes on 3rd down, much of it due to the Chiefs basically holding onto the Bills WRs at the LOS and getting away with it. Next thing you know the Chiefs score 3 consecutive TDs and the games over. 

 

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3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

The knee-jerk reactions are funny as this is a plausible take.

 

Folks can assume the Browns will stay in the basement forever. The same was thought about the Bills not that long ago.

 

I thought the Browns had more balance with their run game keeping the Chiefs' defense off balance and better controlling the game flow and their defense had a better showing bottling up Mahomes than we did.

 

They were solid down the stretch so not a shocker if they can build on that with their additions.

 

Always a crap shoot with key injuries over the season so just get into the post season and you never know...team's can peak down the stretch.

 

Our interior oline got ragdolled against KC and not many changes there so the gamble is that a healthy Ford back and Mongo fully healing can turn that around.... And, hoping we will run better against those defensive fronts that can drop 7 into coverage.

 

Beane invested in our oline, but with rookies that will need to be developed and center/guard was not a priority focus of his draft rather OT and up the middle is where we struggled.

 

I do expect more from our defense this year. The X-factor. With Star back and the infusion of youth along the defensive front.... they seem to have a lot of confidence in a healthy Dane Jackson. Enough that they said meh to drafting another DB in the 2nd.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea I was expecting some changes inside to our offensive line. Felciano is an ok player who was garbage in a few games this season.(Pittsburgh, KC) 

 

I thought for sure he was a goner and they'd upgrade, but nope.... it's really my only issue with their offseason approach. They brought back starters that aren't great or even good starters when there were clear upgrades available via FA. They are clearly relying on development of their own, but I would've loved to see one move the needle signing, particularly at pass rusher. 

 

I expect the Bills to win between 12-13 games, but I can't say they are good enough to win the SB, IMO.... at least on paper.

 

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5 hours ago, Process said:

A 21 page thread debating Bills vs Browns, in May?!

 

Bills fans really are insecure.

I love that Montoya put out a thread like this because it gives us something to argue about. And May is boring from an NFL standpoint.

 

But that being said IMO the ranking in the AFC is Chiefs, Bills, Ravens, Browns/Colts. 

 

Buffalo had two quality playoff wins against the Colts & Ravens before running out of steam against the Chiefs.  The Browns, who lost to the Ravens twice last season, got past Pitt in the playoffs with what could only be described as the Steelers playing one of the worst quarters of playoff football in NFL history. The Chiefs were clearly looking past the Browns and had Mahomes stayed in that game they would have won it by 17 plus points.

 

Buffalo added a couple of guys who I think will show up big time next season (Hollister, Sanders & Breida) and the Bills have a number of young players entering their 2nd - 4th years who stand to improve (Allen, Davis, Singleterry, Moss, Knox, Edmunds, Oliver, Espinoza to name a few).  This is a team that won 13 regular season games and 2 playoff games.  They clearly are the #2 AFC seed going into next season.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good discussion!  So if you follow the breadcrumbs Beane has dropped about being very unfair to blame the backs for the rungame, and if you buy in to some of the film breakdown analysis Cover1 did on the run game, the #1 problem with the rungame was blocking - OL, TE, and WR.

 

I'm trying to break down how I think Beane sees it here and the moves that might make a difference (or might not).

OL: The center and the tackles are the same, so presumably they weren't ID'd as the problem (or the problems ID'd with them were decided to be coachable)

So this comes down to RG and LG.

RG: Winters game 3-11, then Feliciano

LG: Spain game 1-2, then Ford game 3-6, then Boettger games 7-10, then Feliciano Game 11, then Boettger

I think Beane has a 3 pronged approach:

1) improved play by last year's injury-hampered intended starters

2) improved play by developmental guys

3) replacement by 2nd tier guards picked up good run blocking teams

Either Ford and Feliciano were hampered by off season rehab/in season injuries that they didn't represent their best selves

OR

Boettger at LG and Devey at RG can take a step

OR

Lamp (off the Chargers) and Jamil Douglas (off the Titans)

 

I put them in order of possible solutions but I'd say off hand Douglas is seen as ahead of Devey if Feliciano doesn't step it up.

 

 

I'm not quite sure that's it.  I think we ran when we needed to at times - all game against NE, against the Chargers, against the Steelers to put the game away.  BUT, we could not run against the best run defenses, that's for reals.

 

More later.

 

Ok I'm back.  Again, this is my capture of my view on how I think Beane sees the run game and what he thinks he's done about it.

 

So fundamentally, in terms of prioritizing resigning our own Beane put $11.54M cap $$ at re-upping Williams, Feliciano, and Boettger - which is basically last year's OL. The Ed Courage award and the "struggling to lift a 10 lb weight" and the stuff he said about Ford says to me that Beane may be giving them the "purple heart pass", but signing Boettger and $3M of additional FA in Lamp, Douglas, and Hart implies to me that Beane is hedging his bets and there's a shot across the bows "we will have holes in the run game, or else...."

 

As far as TE, Hollister lost playing time to Dissly and Greg Olsen in 2020, but from what I saw he's a more capable run blocker than Knox last off-season.

SI had this to say:

Quote

Though he's not known for his blocking prowess, Hollister was on the field for 130 rushing snaps and he produced just a single blown block (tied for second-fewest among all tight ends with at least 100 rushing snaps). Among all tight ends with at least 40 pass blocking snaps, the Wyoming product also finished with a single blown block, according to Sports-Info-Solutions.com.

Along with the 26-year old’s unexpected blocking numbers, his ability to create a ton of separation in the passing game will likely be an attractive quality for his case against Willson next season.

My knock on Knox, from what I saw and in Cover1's breakdown, is that he's totally inconsistent.  If it's clear to him who he's supposed to block and he has time to get set he can do OK, but if he's facing elite quickness or if there's some kind of read-and-react decision making involved "let's see, if the LB drops into coverage and the CB comes then I gotta block him", he's totally "lost in space".  I hope he improves, but I think Hollister is a "shot across the bows" to Knox that he better shape up, or there WILL be an alternative who can both block and gain separation in the passing game.  If Sweeney has learned anything during his year off, maybe two because I sure liked what I saw of him when he was on the field and his college tape.

 

As far as the RBs, I think they were sent off with a laundry list of stuff to work on.  My personal take is that Singletary lost focus last year - as we became a passing team and the run blocking struggled, I think he was "phoning it in" sometimes.  He ran the world's worst go route in one game; it was notable in the Ravens game he had a hole and ran right into his blockers.  Hopefully his offseason work that Ty Dunne wrote about indicates that he got the message.  But just like the OLmen, I think Breida represents a bit of a "shot across the bows"; he was a capable back with the SF 49ers gaining 5.3 and 5.1 ypa, 58 and 48 ypg.  Beane doesn't want to be left with no alternatives if his primary plan that our current backs will look better if the blocking is better does not pan out.  The other part of signing Breida is as a 5th year guy who played for a Superbowl team, I think Beane is expecting some veteran leadership out of Breida to help keep the room focused even if they aren't getting much business as rushers sometimes.

 

I would expect to see Beane watching the waiver wire and the cutout bin, as well.

 

OK, so, it's not the "blow it all up and start over" sexy that some here would like to see, and I'm not intending to get all up in the "whoo, done more than Browns" or anything like that.  I'm just pointing out that what Beane has done to try to ensure we have a run game next season may be a bit more than folks see.

 

 

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7 hours ago, WideNine said:

The knee-jerk reactions are funny as this is a plausible take.

 

Folks can assume the Browns will stay in the basement forever. The same was thought about the Bills not that long ago.

 

Just a point here, that there's a lot of space between "Browns will stay in the basement forever" and saying that they are now ahead of the Bills in the AFC.

They may be, they may not be - they made a lot more offseason moves because they had more ground to gain IMO.

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