The Athletic: NFL Draft Confidential

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Who?  Holland?

 

Moses.

[just1hugheser]

7 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Lol no problem. In order:

 

Nico Collins

 

Jevon Holland: one of them said they think he's the best pure safety in the class; that's the entire comment.

 

Dylan Moses:

 

Christian Barmore

 

Nick Bolton

 

 

 

I like Collins thought he might be in play later(3/4), surprised to hear he won't make it out of the 2nd, think with some good coaching if he has the work ethic could be a nice piece.

 

I thought the same about Moses, that his injury history and the subsequent effect on his athleticism has really taken him out of the convo which just sucks really, part of the game tho for sure.

 

Bolton is interesting to me, he could be an elite ilb with his physicality and intelligence/instincts, he does not have the athleticism or range right now that you would expect for someone so effective in coverage, specifically zone.  I think with some coaching and a pro style conditioning program with an emphasis on his overall athleticism instead of just weight he could develop into one of those pieces that can wreck an offense's gameplan.

 

Barmore I'm just not sure about.

 

 

Thanks Orange

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by just1hugheser

[Blokestradamus]

9 hours ago, Logic said:

TULSA LINEBACKER ZAVEN COLLINS

Defensive Coach No. 2: He has some freaky stuff to him, but he has to be in a particular scheme like Philly, Indy, Minnesota or Dallas where he can stack and run and hit; he’s not the most physical guy. I know people compare him to Anthony Barr, but I think Barr was more fluid. You watch his film and he’s good in coverage, but I’m not sure how it’s gonna translate to our level. He’s so big; I’d be nervous if he’s out there one-on-one with (Christian) McCaffrey or a Tarik Cohen or someone like that. He plays high; not a thumper. He can chase plays down. I think his instincts are pretty good.

Defensive Coach No. 3: I like him a lot, but what are you looking for? Is he an outside linebacker? You can’t teach 6-4, 260 and moves like that. I think he’s an Anthony Barr-type player, but you better have a clear-cut vision for him. At 6-4 trying to play inside linebacker, it will be hard to get his pads down, and he’s not gonna run around people like he’s in Conference USA. The way the league’s going now, the best middle linebackers, Devin White, Roquan Smith, Devin Bush, Pat Queen, Lavonte David, are all like 6 feet or shorter, and it’s such a space game now.

 

The only way that I could be convinced to like Collins as a prospect is if he cut down to around 240-245 and improved his overall athleticism. He's quite athletic for a 260 pound human but not for an NFL linebacker.

 

Then he adds weight at the medical Combine and he's now 270 pounds. You want to take him early and teach him how to rush the passer from almost scratch? ***** that. He's way too soft to play with the big boys.

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

The only way that I could be convinced to like Collins as a prospect is if he cut down to around 240-245 and improved his overall athleticism. He's quite athletic for a 260 pound human but not for an NFL linebacker.

 

Then he adds weight at the medical Combine and he's now 270 pounds. You want to take him early and teach him how to rush the passer from almost scratch? ***** that. He's way too soft to play with the big boys.

 

The how do you use him question is critical to whoever drafts him. I think strong side outside backer in a 3-4 is probably what I'd do with him. I wouldn't draft him for a 4-3 team. Agree though him gaining weight is a strange one for me. 

[Blokestradamus]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The how do you use him question is critical to whoever drafts him. I think strong side outside backer in a 3-4 is probably what I'd do with him. I wouldn't draft him for a 4-3 team. Agree though him gaining weight is a strange one for me. 

 

Even if he got down to somewhere around 250, I could make a long-term case for him to be a 3-4 Mike. Someone like Benardrick McKinney but that would mean that he flips a switch in terms of his aggression and is willing to take on all forms of contact, not just the contact that's on his terms. Being passive with block shedding is a no-no for me as a linebacker.

 

The sight of Collins beating a tackle around the edge and then coming to a complete stop because of a 185-pound running back is going to stick with me for a long time. Especially when you've got 225-pound Riley Cole chucking RT's about for fun at a similar level. I'd rather have Dylan Moses on a gimpy leg.

[NoSaint]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:37 AM, DCOrange said:

Seems like a lot of people also think he was kinda like how we've seen Hughes the last couple years; a lot of pressures and disruptive plays but not quite able to get the sacks. As one of the guys mentioned in the OP, he hit the Indiana QB an insane number of times but never recorded a sack. I didn't watch much film on him but from what I did see, I would agree with Gunner's assessment; seems to be able to turn his speed into power well but if that doesn't work, he doesn't really know what to do from there yet.

I’m not one to hang up on minor statical variances- an 8 sack guy can be more disruptive than a 12 sack no doubt.... 

 

but zero is hard to stomach. 
 

especially at the college level where some weeks he’s out matching the guy across from him so substantially... and I also hate to say but at some point you’d think his coaches would make it a priority to get him something on the stat sheet (as silly as it sounds, if you have a guy like this that you love you are going to scheme a few soft balls up for him to get over the hump)

 

either you are completely snake bitten, or consistently lost to have a gap as wide as his production vs his physical talent. 

[NoSaint]

On 4/21/2021 at 1:36 PM, K-9 said:

I’m not saying you’re wrong at all because until he’s asked to run boundary routes in the pros vs. pro CBs, we simply won’t know definitively. But I wouldn’t dismiss the scout’s concern, either. That sideline boundary acts like another DB out there and some guys just aren’t cut out for it, regardless of how fast they are. 

plus getting up field off the line vs underneath routes is a different beast. As is  tracking the ball. High pointing a home run over a defender is different than body shielding a slant. The speed helps but there’s a lot going into the skill set variance. I don’t know the player well enough to critique him though. 

[K-9]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:19 PM, NoSaint said:

plus getting up field off the line vs underneath routes is a different beast. As is  tracking the ball. High pointing a home run over a defender is different than body shielding a slant. The speed helps but there’s a lot going into the skill set variance. I don’t know the player well enough to critique him though. 

I finally found some time to look at a few of his highlight videos and they made me think of your post about high-pointing because in all of the plays I watched, I didn’t see him high point one ball. Not saying he can’t, but he hasn’t shown that, and at 5’7”, I question whether he can vs. NFL corners. Saw him make a few great body adjustments to make a catch as the DB whiffed, though, so he has that in his bag of tricks. 
 

The more I watched, the more I agree with that scout who sees him as a slot guy at the next level. He’s tailor made for it with his change if direction skills and speed. I can see him as our new McKittrick. 

[Thurman#1]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:14 AM, NoSaint said:

I’m not one to hang up on minor statical variances- an 8 sack guy can be more disruptive than a 12 sack no doubt.... 

 

but zero is hard to stomach. 
 

especially at the college level where some weeks he’s out matching the guy across from him so substantially... and I also hate to say but at some point you’d think his coaches would make it a priority to get him something on the stat sheet (as silly as it sounds, if you have a guy like this that you love you are going to scheme a few soft balls up for him to get over the hump)

 

either you are completely snake bitten, or consistently lost to have a gap as wide as his production vs his physical talent. 

 

 

I'm not thrilled with him, but I wonder if they're leaning towards him.

 

But production is the wrong word.

 

He had a lot of production. And no sacks. Sacks does not equal production.

[dave mcbride]

On 4/21/2021 at 1:04 PM, DCOrange said:

 

 

Kellen Mond:

 

Re: Mac Jones:

 

This is why I continue to believe that Jones will be SF's pick, especially given the early funeral announcement for Jimmy G. SF is built to win NOW. To repeat for emphasis (and I've seen a LOT of similar quotes from NFL people about him being more ready to play at a high level early than any other prospect save for Lawrence):

 

QB Coach 1: I am driving the bandwagon. I think he is the best thrower of the football by a lot. Zach Wilson is freaky; but he’s not hitting people in stride on time. Mac is processing. He’s accurate. He’s layering it. He has pinpoint accuracy and throws with anticipation. ... He was substantially better in the interviews than all of the other quarterbacks.

 

QB Coach 2: In my mind, if I had to win right now, this year, he’s the most advanced quarterback of any of them. 

Jones is gonna walk in Day One and just have to flip terminology because he’s gonna know pro football. He’s been coached by Sark (Steve Sarkisian). He understands run checks, understands moving protections — not that these others don’t, but he’s on a different level. The question is, are Mac Jones’ physical tools worthy of being a top-5 pick or even first-round? I don’t know that his physical abilities warrant that, but if you tell me that I have to win now, I think his physicals are good enough.

 

[HOUSE]

Jerry Sullivan is not your friend

 

[Tipster19]

Thanks for posting this, I love the tidbit insights, makes the draft even more interesting.

[marky]

1. Terrace Marshall Jr. : 6'3

2. Trey Hill: 6'4
UD: Daniel Faalele: 6'9

 

Felicano moves to guard. Bills finally get a #1 receiverLine them all up on one side. Josh Allen runs downfield again, and slides.

[NoSaint]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm not thrilled with him, but I wonder if they're leaning towards him.

 

But production is the wrong word.

 

He had a lot of production. And no sacks. Sacks does not equal production.

I stand by my commentary and word choice. 
 

when you’ll be expecting a 10 sack guy at the pro level 0 sacks in a college season is a concern. Pressures are valuable but on some level sack production matters. 9 sacks vs 11 sacks is no big deal. Zero is a worry.

 

https://youtu.be/8rDQ_8jv3qw