CFL to delay season, Argos owners want to "scrap" the league

[Gordio]

On 4/14/2021 at 11:16 AM, WhoTom said:

 

But the majority of QBs (and a few other important skill positions) come out of that "farm league" woefully unprepared for the NFL. A few years in a true farm league, owned and operated by the NFL itself, could help.

 

 

I am not sure that is the case anymore, look at all the young good QBs in the league right now - Mahommes/Allen/Hurbert/Burrow/Mayfield/Jackson/Carr.  I would argue the QB situation has not been this good since the 83 draft.

[TheMightyMaxio]

1 hour ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

 

be a better way to get more fans and bring money into the league 

While I cant disagree with your point in the short term... I would question the long term sustainability.

 

Besides in this era of Covid...the CFL is struggling like many other businesses anyway. CFL cant survive without fans in the stands.

 

I do think that there is a strong working relationship between the CFL and NFL & I suspect the CFL would respect that the NFL would  be able to keep them floating over the long term because the NFL does not see CFL as a threat to them. Throwing in with the XFL could hurt that relationship.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Edmonton, Saskatchewan, Calgary and Winnipeg are the lifeblood of that league. The problem is that the four other cities where the league exists, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Ottawa, are where the money is in this country. Montreal has had a strong following in the past, but Montreal is a hockey city. Toronto fans have not flocked to Argonauts games for years. Vancouver has been mediocre in attendance for years and Ottawa is lucky to have a franchise.

 

And Hamilton is ignored by many.

[MiltonWaddams]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

And Hamilton is ignored by many.

Oops! Fail on my part. Hamilton is actually historically a great CFL town.

[TheFunPolice]

22 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Which is why I am so supportive of the Pegulas even if their ownership record is less than stellar. The Bills were as good as gone after Ralph passed away. Jon Bon Douchebag teamed up with Rogers to buy the Bills and take them north. The plan was to buy the Bills for between $800MM and $1B, then wait a few years while Toronto built a new stadium. The $400MM lease breaking fee wasn't going to stop them.

 

But then two things happened: Ted Rogers also passed away and the Pegulas wrote the massive (at the time) check. The Bills were saved. Thank goodness they at least got the Bills right. Hoping they get as lucky with the Sabres.

 

 

 

I agree, and I think the difference between the Bills and Sabres is luck. 

 

Same owners, except they got it right with Beane and McDermott. Maybe REALLY right, it looks like, when you add in the Josh Allen part. 

 

Is Kraft really so much smarter than every other owner, or did he luck out with Belichick and Brady, a QB even the Pats* passed on 5 times. They didn't consider him worthy of a 5th round pick. That's luck to me. 

 

One thing is for sure: we ALL lucked out with the Pegulas buying the Bills and the timeline of Mr. Wilson's gamble. The whole Bon Jovi thing was hilarious, especially his attempts to rewrite history. We all know the deal, and honestly, if Tommy Shaw or Alice Cooper had enough rich friends it might have been one of them if the idea was to somehow make WNY happy with the deal until it was time to pull the rug out and move the team. 

[PromoTheRobot]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31303092/cfl-pushing-back-start-2021-season-cuts-number-games-per-team-14

 

Season delayed by 2 months, games reduced.

[Jerome007]

The main problem with the CFL is at least half their season overlapped with the NFL, and while they play games in any kind of weekdays, once the NFL started and thus school started, they played on... Sundays, at the same time as NFL games. Such awesome business sense...

 

Only two countries play this kind of football yet they couldn't agree on any similar rules? Different field sizes, different places for the goal posts, 12 vs 11 players, 4 vs 3 downs, even a... 3 minute warning. It bordered on ridiculous.

 

A merger with the XFL and a season that wouldn't clash with the NFL would be a good thing IMO.

 

[4_kidd_4]

I will say CFL has the goalposts right. 

 

The goal line isn’t at the back of the endzone. NFL never moves them and we win XXV

[machine gun kelly]

I only care for my Canada friends.  What it tells me is if the CFL fails, that means an expansion at some point if the NFL.  They will see as an expansion opportunity for the wealthiest cities in Canada.  A portion of Canada already are NFL fans and if they don’t have their league, the teams closest to the states would consider investing in an NFL team..

 

you can bet if these things happen, Toronto would try and bide for a team.  I honestly don’t care as baseball and hockey have made it work.  Again, for my Canada buddies, I hope it works out for you.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:58 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Which is why I am so supportive of the Pegulas even if their ownership record is less than stellar. The Bills were as good as gone after Ralph passed away. Jon Bon Douchebag teamed up with Rogers to buy the Bills and take them north. The plan was to buy the Bills for between $800MM and $1B, then wait a few years while Toronto built a new stadium. The $400MM lease breaking fee wasn't going to stop them.

 

But then two things happened: Ted Rogers also passed away and the Pegulas wrote the massive (at the time) check. The Bills were saved. Thank goodness they at least got the Bills right. Hoping they get as lucky with the Sabres.

 

 

 

 

Ted Rogers punched out before Ralph did (and before Jon Bon Jovi was involved).

 

I am sure Rogers assumed he was going to outlive Ralph.......he was much younger than Ralph........but it didn't work out that way..........and then basically only one of Rogers' numerous heirs had any interest in owning an NFL team.

 

The Rogers fortune got divvyed up leaving the one Rogers kid in a position where he felt he needed a partner......so he took up with Bon Jovi.

 

Ted Rogers wouldn't have needed a partner.

 

It indeed was a very fortuitous series of mortality timing + the energy market for the Bills future in Buffalo.

[Mike in Horseheads]

On 4/14/2021 at 4:20 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Everyone acts like no one watches spring football. But the XFL, even after the initial curiosity watchers that put their games in the Top 3 TV ratings in their debut  weekend, settled into the top 10 to 12 of weekly TV ratings, outperforming most NHL and some NBA games. What killed them was COVID. Vince McMahon pulled the plug once he realized games would have to be called off. I think they were well on their way to establishing spring ball. He could have taken those ratings and gotten a real TV deal.

 

I watched quite a bit of the Alliance and thought it was decent but its always one investor that ruins it.  Have been watching CFL since a kid, its football. I also remember the WFL 74-75.

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

 

Only two countries play this kind of football yet they couldn't agree on any similar rules? Different field sizes, different places for the goal posts, 12 vs 11 players, 4 vs 3 downs, even a... 3 minute warning. It bordered on ridiculous.

 

A merger with the XFL and a season that wouldn't clash with the NFL would be a good thing IMO.

 

Why would they need to agree on similar rules?  Canada is similar to the States in various ways, but, ultimately, it’s still a foreign country and they have ways specific to them.  I don’t think the CFL was created to mimic the NFL.  It has a long tradition. 

[cba fan]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:45 PM, TheFunPolice said:

I think for the Toronto group it's mostly that the CFL is 2nd fiddle to the NFL, and they want to be in the big league. 

 

The Toronto Series was 100% about moving the Bills to Toronto after Mr. Wilson passed away. At least from their (MLSE and Rogers) point of view. It was the "in" they needed to secure the team when it went up for sale. 

 

Rogers and MLSE paid almost $80 million for a couple of football games a year and nothing else. To think they weren't going for something bigger is willful ignorance. If Mr. Wilson had passed away before Ted Rogers then this team would the in Toronto full-time right now. 

 

I think that Mr. Wilson saw what was happening and played it brilliantly. Tannebaum and Rogers had come right out and made it clear what their intentions were in 2006. They wanted an NFL team in Toronto, full-time, and were openly petitioning the NFL for a sign that it was willing to play ball. For the Bills to survive in WNY there couldn't be a Canadian team right across the border. 

 

2 year later, Wilson makes his move: take 120+ million from Rogers over the course of the deal and renewal, and lock down Toronto as his market so no other team could relocate there.

 

Not only did he pocket 100+ million dollars (in unshared revenues) to help bolster the Bills finances, but he also established that Toronto was the Bills territory. 

 

Assuming his estate could find a buyer willing to keep the team in WNY, it could be sold for whatever huge price PLUS he already has Rogers $120 million. It's a nice double-dip. 

 

PLUS, if an NFL team ever tried to relocate to Toronto, the Bills are likely in a position to claim ownership of that market, meaning some sort of compensation would have to be agreed to. 

 

It was an absolutely brilliant business move. 

 

One small problem with this is all this smart built up ownership maneuvering Wilson(Russ Brandon was brainchild I still believe) cleverly did to declare Toronto a Bills territory was given back by Pegula.  He made not well thought out commitment to NFL prior to being approved as new owner. 

 

Maybe he felt he had to say this to gain approval for purchase. He also could now come out and say he has reevaluated and claims Toronto as Bills territory.  Unless of course he put an agreement to paper and pen with NFL when he purchased Bills.

Edited April 23, 2021 by cba fan

[Zerovoltz]

My 2 cents on the Canadian football marketplace.

 

The NFL is going to want a team in Canada sometime sooner rather than later.  Toronto is the obvious choice and ultimately will probably be where a franchise is located...but the thing to remember about the NFL at this point is their moves are all about expanding TV/media deals.

 

We aren't going to hear of US expansion....ever again most likely....and the reason is TV dollars.

 

In the US, NON NFL cities already watch NFL football games at a rate every bit as high as NFL media markets do.  You do not gain eyes on screens by putting a new team in Portland, OR and San Antonio, TX.  ......doing so means you have the same viewership numbers, but now the owners have to split that pie among 2 more teams.  They aren't interested in that.

 

What would very much interest the NFL is NEW TV money....ideally without expansion even....same 32 clubs get to share the new money....and new money comes from new markets.

 

you put ONE NFL team in Canada...it's going to become "Canada's Team".....and will draw media interest.....and the NFL can sell the rights for a nice fee, wich the owners then share on top of the US TV deal.

 

Same with London...you move a team over there....it's the UK Team....and the big media deal that goes with....split among the 32 owners.....

 

So....just by moving the Jags....to London....and some team (the Bills?) to Canada.....the 32 owners can VASTLY expand their revenue.

 

Maybe there is some friction trying to move 2 existing teams....so you expand.....same thing applies...whatever expansion happens...MUST be in line with adding screens and thus raking in the new media market revenue.  Expansion then to London and Toronto. 

[Bferra13]

47 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

My 2 cents on the Canadian football marketplace.

 

The NFL is going to want a team in Canada sometime sooner rather than later.  Toronto is the obvious choice and ultimately will probably be where a franchise is located...but the thing to remember about the NFL at this point is their moves are all about expanding TV/media deals.

 

We aren't going to hear of US expansion....ever again most likely....and the reason is TV dollars.

 

In the US, NON NFL cities already watch NFL football games at a rate every bit as high as NFL media markets do.  You do not gain eyes on screens by putting a new team in Portland, OR and San Antonio, TX.  ......doing so means you have the same viewership numbers, but now the owners have to split that pie among 2 more teams.  They aren't interested in that.

 

What would very much interest the NFL is NEW TV money....ideally without expansion even....same 32 clubs get to share the new money....and new money comes from new markets.

 

you put ONE NFL team in Canada...it's going to become "Canada's Team".....and will draw media interest.....and the NFL can sell the rights for a nice fee, wich the owners then share on top of the US TV deal.

 

Same with London...you move a team over there....it's the UK Team....and the big media deal that goes with....split among the 32 owners.....

 

So....just by moving the Jags....to London....and some team (the Bills?) to Canada.....the 32 owners can VASTLY expand their revenue.

 

Maybe there is some friction trying to move 2 existing teams....so you expand.....same thing applies...whatever expansion happens...MUST be in line with adding screens and thus raking in the new media market revenue.  Expansion then to London and Toronto. 

Nah, why don't you just move back to your board. Don't bring that garbage here.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

My 2 cents on the Canadian football marketplace.

 

The NFL is going to want a team in Canada sometime sooner rather than later.  Toronto is the obvious choice and ultimately will probably be where a franchise is located...but the thing to remember about the NFL at this point is their moves are all about expanding TV/media deals.

 

We aren't going to hear of US expansion....ever again most likely....and the reason is TV dollars.

 

In the US, NON NFL cities already watch NFL football games at a rate every bit as high as NFL media markets do.  You do not gain eyes on screens by putting a new team in Portland, OR and San Antonio, TX.  ......doing so means you have the same viewership numbers, but now the owners have to split that pie among 2 more teams.  They aren't interested in that.

 

What would very much interest the NFL is NEW TV money....ideally without expansion even....same 32 clubs get to share the new money....and new money comes from new markets.

 

you put ONE NFL team in Canada...it's going to become "Canada's Team".....and will draw media interest.....and the NFL can sell the rights for a nice fee, wich the owners then share on top of the US TV deal.

 

Same with London...you move a team over there....it's the UK Team....and the big media deal that goes with....split among the 32 owners.....

 

So....just by moving the Jags....to London....and some team (the Bills?) to Canada.....the 32 owners can VASTLY expand their revenue.

 

Maybe there is some friction trying to move 2 existing teams....so you expand.....same thing applies...whatever expansion happens...MUST be in line with adding screens and thus raking in the new media market revenue.  Expansion then to London and Toronto. 

 

The NFL has had ample time in its history to expand to Toronto (a mediocre at best NFL prospect town).

 

Expanding to Toronto or London doesn't bring unique or new TV contracts.  The deals are set for many years at a time.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

My 2 cents on the Canadian football marketplace.

 

The NFL is going to want a team in Canada sometime sooner rather than later.  Toronto is the obvious choice and ultimately will probably be where a franchise is located...but the thing to remember about the NFL at this point is their moves are all about expanding TV/media deals.

 

We aren't going to hear of US expansion....ever again most likely....and the reason is TV dollars.

 

In the US, NON NFL cities already watch NFL football games at a rate every bit as high as NFL media markets do.  You do not gain eyes on screens by putting a new team in Portland, OR and San Antonio, TX.  ......doing so means you have the same viewership numbers, but now the owners have to split that pie among 2 more teams.  They aren't interested in that.

 

What would very much interest the NFL is NEW TV money....ideally without expansion even....same 32 clubs get to share the new money....and new money comes from new markets.

 

you put ONE NFL team in Canada...it's going to become "Canada's Team".....and will draw media interest.....and the NFL can sell the rights for a nice fee, wich the owners then share on top of the US TV deal.

 

Same with London...you move a team over there....it's the UK Team....and the big media deal that goes with....split among the 32 owners.....

 

So....just by moving the Jags....to London....and some team (the Bills?) to Canada.....the 32 owners can VASTLY expand their revenue.

 

Maybe there is some friction trying to move 2 existing teams....so you expand.....same thing applies...whatever expansion happens...MUST be in line with adding screens and thus raking in the new media market revenue.  Expansion then to London and Toronto. 

 

Why not another small market team like the Chiefs?

[Zerovoltz]

40 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why not another small market team like the Chiefs?

I put a question mark behind the Bills as if to ask if that is what the NFL would ask someday?  I already know your fan base is awesome and the Bills should stay in Buffalo.

[Zerovoltz]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The NFL has had ample time in its history to expand to Toronto (a mediocre at best NFL prospect town).

 

Expanding to Toronto or London doesn't bring unique or new TV contracts.  The deals are set for many years at a time.

 

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The NFL has had ample time in its history to expand to Toronto (a mediocre at best NFL prospect town).

 

Expanding to Toronto or London doesn't bring unique or new TV contracts.  The deals are set for many years at a time.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nfl-should-expand-to-london-but-first-canada-mexico-and-la/

[TheFunPolice]

11 hours ago, cba fan said:

One small problem with this is all this smart built up ownership maneuvering Wilson(Russ Brandon was brainchild I still believe) cleverly did to declare Toronto a Bills territory was given back by Pegula.  He made not well thought out commitment to NFL prior to being approved as new owner. 

 

Maybe he felt he had to say this to gain approval for purchase. He also could now come out and say he has reevaluated and claims Toronto as Bills territory.  Unless of course he put an agreement to paper and pen with NFL when he purchased Bills.

 

I think it's likely that behind closed doors Pegula agreed to waive his claims to Toronto in exchange for a clean break with the MLSE/Rogers group. 

 

The powers that be in Toronto want to be in the big boy league, which is the NFL. Now that it's clear they won't get the Bills they will focus on expansion or moving another team there. 

 

And next time around they won't need to find a "97 rocker" who will promise to move to Tonawanda full time and buy a canal boat as a PR stunt. They will be able to just be open about their intentions, which 100% always were buying the Bills upon Mr. Wilson's passing and moving them to Toronto. 

 

And really, if it weren't for Pegula, who nobody had ever heard of when the original Toronto deal was signed, it would have happened. Nobody else was a serious bidder at $1 billion +. 

 

Their plan was crystal clear: say whatever you need to until the ink is dry and money changes hands. Then "economic realities" and "changing circumstances" magically happen. 

 

IMO, it's also not totally insane to say that the Bills recent success and the emerging superstar QB status of Josh Allen have done a lot to solidify the team here. With the level of fan passion, seats selling like crazy, and attention on the Bills, there won't be a window to make a case about moving the team for the next generation, and in that time there will be a new/totally refurbished stadium and a 30 year lease. 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by TheFunPolice