Canada Vs USA- Vaccine Rollout

[T master]

On 4/8/2021 at 7:38 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I have literally zero sympathy for anyone who hasn't gotten the vaccine within the next month or two. We should be able to go back to completely normal, not forced to limit activities and wear masks to protect those who don't want to protect themselves by getting a vaccine. It makes no sense.

 

It's awesome that they got the vaccine out in such a hurry but i went to a Dr. 2 yrs ago for a sinus infection he said or insisted i should be on a medication that would stop my allergy's now that med is in commercial's that it causes cancer i am so glad that i didn't take it ! 

 

My daughter is also a RN and has said that and i agree this is a huge experimental vaccine with little to no history it's just a learn as you go thing & i pray that in the long run all will be good with it & no other bad disease pops up from it . Although there has been some 2500 vaccine related deaths .

 

If those in charge (On both sides)  would have given more sound advice like increasing our vitamin D3 intake along with other nutrients & such first to boost our immune system rather than pushing so incredibly hard for a vaccine right out of the gate it would have reinforced my belief that they had our best interest in mind but IMHO money once again is a huge motivating factor in all of this .

 

I for one have put my faith first in god that he made my immune system strong enough to handle this & i have tried to help it along by increasing Vitamins D3, C, B complex and some others in hopes to give me more time to make a better assessment of the vaccine and it's pro's and cons and not use the scare tactic used to push me either way.

 

Seeing that the recovery rate is in the 90% rate of those with no co-morbidities & under the age of said 70 i think i have a good chance of surviving it if i do contract it 🙏 I do wear a mask in public in respect to others especially when with in 6 ft for a longer period of time yet i know folks here will think i'm a fool but hey i got big shoulders & think do what you think is best for you & yours or live & let live i just hope either way it all gets figures out ...

 

I think common sense (which doesn't enter much into political thinking) is a powerful tool in all of this ! To all be safe in what ever way you choose to go !! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:56 AM, LeviF91 said:

 

Fun fact: your life can go back to normal without a vaccine. And the fact is that we were forced to limit activities and wear masks by the elderly to protect the elderly. 

 

I'm sure most folks who don't get the vaccine couldn't give two ***** whether or not they're "protected" from COVID.

 

Back years ago when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth and all the little kiddos walked to and from school (uphill both ways through the snow of course), I started grade school during an epidemic.  It was an epidemic of Rubella, aka "3 day measles" or "German measles".

 

Now Rubella is a total wuss of a virus.  50% of those infected don't even know they have it, no symptoms.  In the rest, it's totally milquetoast-rash, mild fever, headache for mebbe 3 days.  But, in a pregnant woman who contracts it in the first 3 months, it's very bad news for the developing fetus.  So, there was an excess miscarriage rate amounting to 11,000 lost pregnancies; 2,100 deaths in newborns; and lastly, 20,000 babies born with Congenital Rubella Syndrome which causes intellectual disabilities, heart defects, cataracts, deafness, liver and spleen damage, and a bunch of less common things. 

 

As an airborne disease, it spread widely and wildly through schools

 

A vaccine was developed, and approved in 1969.  But prior to that, thousands of schoolchildren lined up to be vaccinated.  There were permission slips and informational meetings.  My recollection, though, is that very few of my classmates opted out.  We understood that rubella wasn't a big deal to us.  A few days. 

 

We all wanted to SAVE THE BABIES and spare the mothers and fathers that grief of having a stillborn child or a child born with multiple birth defects.  So we lined up and bared our arms and the nurses came down the line with alcohol wipes followed by that horrible vaccine gun they used then CHUFF CHUFF CHUFF CHUFF.  Rumor had it, if you didn't bring your permission slip, the principal and your teacher and the school nurse would visit your parents and ask why they didn't want their kids to help save the babies.  Very few lost permission slips - Who knew what else they might discuss about you?

 

 "SAVE THE GRANNIES" or "PROTECT THE GRANNIES" just doesn't have the same ring to it, I guess?

 

At least 557,093 Americans who died before their time from this.  We have age data for 431,207 from the CDC. Yes, many of them were Grannies and Grandies, 63,310 were age 50-64 and 17,197 of them were age 30-49.

 

Back when Dinosaurs roamed the earth in the late 1960s, 20,000 babies with CRS was considered cause to vaccinate the whole freakin' country, schoolchildren first and young folks who weren't considering bebbies just yet.  Today, Rubella has been practically eliminated in the US.

 

Now a days, ~20,000 people age 30-49 dead from covid-19 is apparently considered an insignificant number to care about - "it's just the elderly"

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, T master said:

 

It's awesome that they got the vaccine out in such a hurry but i went to a Dr. 2 yrs ago for a sinus infection he said or insisted i should be on a medication that would stop my allergy's now that med is in commercial's that it causes cancer i am so glad that i didn't take it ! 

 

My daughter is also a RN and has said that and i agree this is a huge experimental vaccine with little to no history it's just a learn as you go thing & i pray that in the long run all will be good with it & no other bad disease pops up from it . Although there has been some 2500 vaccine related deaths .

 

If those in charge (On both sides)  would have given more sound advice like increasing our vitamin D3 intake along with other nutrients & such first to boost our immune system rather than pushing so incredibly hard for a vaccine right out of the gate it would have reinforced my belief that they had our best interest in mind but IMHO money once again is a huge motivating factor in all of this .

 

I for one have put my faith first in god that he made my immune system strong enough to handle this & i have tried to help it along by increasing Vitamins D3, C, B complex and some others in hopes to give me more time to make a better assessment of the vaccine and it's pro's and cons and not use the scare tactic used to push me either way.

 

Seeing that the recovery rate is in the 90% rate of those with no co-morbidities & under the age of said 70 i think i have a good chance of surviving it if i do contract it 🙏 I do wear a mask in public in respect to others especially when with in 6 ft for a longer period of time yet i know folks here will think i'm a fool but hey i got big shoulders & think do what you think is best for you & yours or live & let live i just hope either way it all gets figures out ...

 

I think common sense (which doesn't enter much into political thinking) is a powerful tool in all of this ! To all be safe in what ever way you choose to go !! 

 

First of all, kudos with wearing a mask in public from respect.  Many do not do this.  🙏

 

Appreciate if you could point me at a source for the deaths, as I can't find it and I'm collecting this stuff.  Details matter.  Are you talking all reported to VAERS? [Edit: I found on the CDC site.  It's VAERS, which collates all deaths: "FDA requires vaccination providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.   Reports of death to VAERS following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.  CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information and learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or unrelated."  Currently 2,792 deaths, none of which are considered to be caused by the vaccine]

 

Just a note that there have been 179,000,000 doses of vaccine administered in the US to date (per CDC).

It takes a bit of math to figure out how many individuals have been vaccinated, but my math says 115,826,000.

 

So taking 2,500 at face value, that's 2.2 deaths per 100,000 doses [Edit: 2.4 with the current #].  We've only been vaccinating about 4 months, so annualize at 8.8 deaths/100,000 per year [Edit: 10/100,000 per year with the current #]

 

The overall normal death rate (again, CDC data) was 869.7/100,000 people in 2019.

Here, lemme give you the table:

For age 25-34, death rate was 129/100,000.

For age 35-44, death rate  199/100,000

 

My guess is that the deaths would predominantly be in age >65, because that's where the vaccinations have focused - 78% of population >65 vaccinated at least 1 dose vs 45% of the population >18

 

So if all those 2,500 deaths prove vaccine-induced (excess deaths over what would normally be expected from that cause in that age group), it's a small # compared to normal death rate (assuming it's slanted in the >65 age group).

 

[Edit: I should add, it is a requirement that all deaths within a certain time period - maybe 1-2 weeks - following a vaccine administration MUST be reported to VAERS, whether or not it is believed to be caused by the vaccine.  VAERS is continually mined with various statistical tools to try to pull out patterns.]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:14 PM, meazza said:

We’ve also been given plenty of AstraZeneca which has generated a lot of hesitation because of Europe’s regulators.

 

Risk/benefit is always a question, but to be fair, it's not just because of Europe's regulators. 

 

I think there are some real issues with the vaccine:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/rare-clotting-disorder-may-cloud-worlds-hopes-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine

Good summary by my boy Pharma R&D blogger Derek Lowe:

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/30/blood-clots-and-the-az-vaccine-revisited

 

The estimated risk is 4 cases of this clotting disorder/1 million doses where background is estimated at <1 case/1 million doses.

 

Then it becomes a cost/benefit analysis - which will be strongly age group dependent, because covid-19 disease risks are age group dependent:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/apr/07/uk-covid-live-news-mhra-astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus-latest-updates?page=with:block-606dcf218f087dc3964a2295#block-606dcf218f087dc3964a2295

 

Now, ICU admission does not arguably tell the whole picture of covid-19 risk for <30 year olds, since some do suffer enduring morbidities they would presumably prefer to do without.  But IMO, the cost/benefit analysis for using the AZ vaccine in people <30 makes UK's decision legit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Back years ago when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth and all the little kiddos walked to and from school (uphill both ways through the snow of course), I started grade school during an epidemic.  It was an epidemic of Rubella, aka "3 day measles" or "German measles".

 

Now Rubella is a total wuss of a virus.  50% of those infected don't even know they have it, no symptoms.  In the rest, it's totally milquetoast-rash, mild fever, headache for mebbe 3 days.  But, in a pregnant woman who contracts it in the first 3 months, it's very bad news for the developing fetus.  So, there was an excess miscarriage rate amounting to 11,000 lost pregnancies; 2,100 deaths in newborns; and lastly, 20,000 babies born with Congenital Rubella Syndrome which causes intellectual disabilities, heart defects, cataracts, deafness, liver and spleen damage, and a bunch of less common things. 

 

As an airborne disease, it spread widely and wildly through schools

 

A vaccine was developed, and approved in 1969.  But prior to that, thousands of schoolchildren lined up to be vaccinated.  There were permission slips and informational meetings.  My recollection, though, is that very few of my classmates opted out.  We understood that rubella wasn't a big deal to us.  A few days. 

 

We all wanted to SAVE THE BABIES and spare the mothers and fathers that grief of having a stillborn child or a child born with multiple birth defects.  So we lined up and bared our arms and the nurses came down the line with alcohol wipes followed by that horrible vaccine gun they used then CHUFF CHUFF CHUFF CHUFF.  Rumor had it, if you didn't bring your permission slip, the principal and your teacher and the school nurse would visit your parents and ask why they didn't want their kids to help save the babies.  Very few lost permission slips - Who knew what else they might discuss about you?

 

 "SAVE THE GRANNIES" or "PROTECT THE GRANNIES" just doesn't have the same ring to it, I guess?

 

At least 557,093 Americans who died before their time from this.  We have age data for 431,207 from the CDC. Yes, many of them were Grannies and Grandies, 63,310 were age 50-64 and 17,197 of them were age 30-49.

 

Back when Dinosaurs roamed the earth in the late 1960s, 20,000 babies with CRS was considered cause to vaccinate the whole freakin' country, schoolchildren first and young folks who weren't considering bebbies just yet.  Today, Rubella has been practically eliminated in the US.

 

Now a days, ~20,000 people age 30-49 dead from covid-19 is apparently considered an insignificant number to care about - "it's just the elderly"

 

 

Yikes.  that’s a pretty gross (over)-generalization of people who don’t want this vaccine.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

Yikes.  that’s a pretty gross (over)-generalization of people who don’t want this vaccine.

 

I was responding to this post:

 

On 4/8/2021 at 8:56 AM, LeviF91 said:

Fun fact: your life can go back to normal without a vaccine. And the fact is that we were forced to limit activities and wear masks by the elderly to protect the elderly. 

 

I'm sure most folks who don't get the vaccine couldn't give two ***** whether or not they're "protected" from COVID.

 

 

I'm not generalizing this viewpoint or saying I think it's true; I'm responding to a post where someone is generalizing to "most folks who don't get the vaccine"

 

Now perhaps I misinterpret @LeviF91 but, I interpret this as:

1) Public health measures to reduce Covid-19 spread were "forced" on young and middle aged people solely to protect only the "elderly" so people should go back to normal living, whether or not they're vaccinated.  [In other words "Save the Grannies" is not important enough to limit our lives while ~40% of Americans >65 are still un- or incompletely vaccinated.]

2) People who don't want the vaccine don't care if they (or their friends/associates) are protected from Covid-19, because they see their personal risk as low and "Save the Grannies" isn't important to them.

 

Almost as many Americans age 30-49 have died from Covid-19 (~17,000), as there were babies impacted with CRS (~20,000) during the mid-60s Rubella epidemic.  Americans responded to the latter with a massive widespread vaccination campaign, for a disease that posed literally no personal risk to those being vaccinated.

American response to the former?  Well I'm hearing "I'm sure most folks who don't get the vaccine couldn't give two ***** whether or not they're "protected" from COVID" which sounds a way of saying "neither 17,197 dead people ~ my age, nor dead Grannies, matter to me"

 

I'm just responding to what I read.  I'd say if you find it gross (and honestly, I do), take it up with people who feel that way.  And again, perhaps I'm misunderstanding @LeviF91 and he'll explain what he actually meant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Niagara Bill]

On 4/9/2021 at 9:34 AM, Wacka said:

Reason drugs cost  so much more in the US is because  the re5t of the world  has a cap on prices. It takes many years and lots of $ to do the research and the testing.  In other countries they can't recoup those costs, so they rely on the US to do it. The last big medicine that was developed in Canada was probably insulin by Banting and Best in the 20s. The generics are drugs where the patents have run out. The  research for those were done years ago.

Nobody relies on the US to do it. Don’t be Wacko, Wacko,

Many drug companies do research all over the world including England, France, Netherlands, Belgium etc. Reseach is done in Canada by developing drug suppliers. 

From another point of view, the tax loopholes for some corporations is so huge in the US that others refuse to compete. In fact, the majority of the drugs produced are manufactured outside the US by companies who you may considered to be American. 

Canada made a decision on the patents years ago. Every decision has good and bad attached. If your high horse is too big, stop having your favorite defeated president send people to Canada to buy their drugs. 

We can pleasantly share them with most anyone who doesn't wear a gun. 😉

[Boatdrinks]

No American in their right mind is envious of Canadian healthcare. In Ontario, there isn’t enough capacity for the population and not nearly enough personnel. Probably because they can make more money elsewhere. It also costs a fortune so they come to the USA to shop. They’re locking down again for a month. Who the heck would sign up for that? Maybe some scared liberals, that’s about it. 

[LeviF]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm just responding to what I read.  I'd say if you find it gross (and honestly, I do), take it up with people who feel that way.  And again, perhaps I'm misunderstanding @LeviF91 and he'll explain what he actually meant.

 

 

 

You misunderstand in the sense that my post was not making moral statements, but factual ones. 
 

As you’re aware I received a vaccine well before most people did and feel no need to moralize about it when speaking to the circumstances at large. 

[Orlando Tim]

Canada is a mess of epic proportions now. I use to think they were similar to USA but they are creeping ever closer to communism. They are literally arresting pastors for having mass without evidence he is causing anyone problems, only that he is breaking their rules. The control the govt has is immoral, illogical and does not follow the science at all.

[ALF]

Countries that import vaccine are in big trouble  with covid.