Analysis of Emmanual Sanders Film (Athletic, Joe B)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

I still maintain our receivers couldn't get the separation we are all used to against KC because of the injuries: Diggs - oblique, Beasley - leg, Davis - leg, Brown - leg

 

Perhaps, but Brown, Diggs and Beasley had the same injuries against the Ravens and Colts and they managed.  So I think it was the "sticky" coverage.

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

I still maintain our receivers couldn't get the separation we are all used to against KC because of the injuries: Diggs - oblique, Beasley - leg, Davis - leg, Brown - leg

Agree, also add in how often they were held a lot of that game.

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess we'll have to wait to see what the picture is after the rest of FA and the draft.  What do you know about Breida's ability to release off the line and run routes?  Or track balls?

 

 

 

 

[hjnick]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

Please don’t let facts ruin a great myth. Apparently, some want JA to be perfect on every throw. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by hjnick

[DCofNC]

I still feel we need size and physicality more than Sanders, but he’s a good player.  For me, this team should have no issue moving the ball between the 20’s the question is what happens when you are deep in your own end or hit the RZ?  Guys that can physically whoop your @$$ are invaluable at that point, and there are none on this team outside of MAYBE Moss and JA, but I don’t want my QB as my hammer.

 

IF Knox can become the JuggerKnox again on a consistent basis, a big portion of the issue goes away.  Also, Davis needs to get WAY better at exploding to the ball, not jumping into catches and leaving himself open to being shoved around.  If those two come on strong, oh boy do we have something, if not, it’s too easy to jam up the small WR core and slow this team down.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He was 8th in the NFL last year.

 

8th in what specifically?

 

Allen is great on 20-25 yard throws......maybe the best in the NFL.......his arm strength allows him to throw them on a rope, not requiring much touch.

 

But putting air under actual deep throws of 40+ yards has been a weakness despite his great arm.      

 

I believe it was going to be a focus this offseason and that he was going to close up that weak link in his game.

 

All the more reason to give him a target or two that can just blaze a 9 route past a teams #2 CB while Diggs works the short to intermediate.

 

They don't have that guy. 

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

8th in what specifically?

 

Allen is great on 20-25 yard throws......maybe the best in the NFL.......his arm strength allows him to throw them on a rope, not requiring much touch.

 

But putting air under actual deep throws of 40+ yards has been a weakness despite his great arm.      

 

I believe it was going to be a focus this offseason and that he was going to close up that weak link in his game.

 

All the more reason to give him a target or two that can just blaze a 9 route past a teams #2 CB while Diggs works the short to intermediate.

 

They don't have that guy. 

Yeah those 40 plus throws he struggles with at times. He did improve the last season some, but still an area that can improve. Hopefully next season that is just one of the things they get better at

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

8th in what specifically?

 

Allen is great on 20-25 yard throws......maybe the best in the NFL.......his arm strength allows him to throw them on a rope, not requiring much touch.

 

But putting air under actual deep throws of 40+ yards has been a weakness despite his great arm.      

 

I believe it was going to be a focus this offseason and that he was going to close up that weak link in his game.

 

All the more reason to give him a target or two that can just blaze a 9 route past a teams #2 CB while Diggs works the short to intermediate.

 

They don't have that guy. 

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/analysis-charts-show-how-josh-allen-improved-deep-middle-short/article_baf979b2-61a3-11eb-ab98-eb290c8aca80.html

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/2/11/22274403/throwing-deep-accuracy-nfl

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/analysis-charts-show-how-josh-allen-improved-deep-middle-short/article_baf979b2-61a3-11eb-ab98-eb290c8aca80.html

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2021/2/11/22274403/throwing-deep-accuracy-nfl

 

 

Again........8th in what specifically?

 

The intended air yard stat in the Mile High Report article doesn't mean much wrt deep ball touch, timing and accuracy.   That average IAY number is 9 yards and Allen is as good as it gets at throwing passes 20-25 yards on a rope.    When you can do that with the harder intermediate throws you are going to average 9 IAY.

 

Throwing catchable deep balls has been the biggest weakness in his game.

Edited March 31, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess we'll have to wait to see what the picture is after the rest of FA and the draft.  What do you know about Breida's ability to release off the line and run routes?  Or track balls?

 

 

 

 

Not much but that one clip of him catching that deep throw from Jimmy G for a TD versus KC was encouraging.

 

He has the makings of a crowd favorite.............fans love players who are cheap and don't seem to have caught the breaks.

 

If Breida stays healthy thru camp and plays well in the opener expect to be moderating an "extend Breida now" thread that Monday.

 

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The Buffalo news article is deceiving.... It’s talking about passes 20 plus yards down the field....Allen can throw a rope 20 plus yards down the field. It’s the lofted deep balls as @BADOLBILZ said. 
 

He def improved in 2020. He started out hot with his deep balls then regressed a bit with them towards the middle of the season.... he missed several of these throws in the playoff game against Baltimore as the wind played a part. 

 

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Again........8th in what specifically?

 

The intended air yard stat in the Mile High Report article doesn't mean much wrt deep ball touch, timing and accuracy.   That average IAY number is 9 yards and Allen is as good as it gets at throwing passes 20-25 yards on a rope.    When you can do that with the harder intermediate throws you are going to average 9 IAY.

 

Throwing catchable deep balls has been the biggest weakness in his game.

 

I couldn't find 40+ yard throws anywhere.  But give me game examples from last year (excluding the Baltimore game, for the reason already mentioned).

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I couldn't find 40+ yard throws anywhere.  But give me game examples from last year (excluding the Baltimore game, for the reason already mentioned).

 

 

I am still waiting on the "he finished 8th in the NFL stat" you lead with.........8th in what?

 

We all saw him overthrow or not put enough air under a significant amount of his deeper throws last year............the deep ball is not an easy throw to complete but he just made too many uncompetitive/uncatchable throws for someone with his ability.    

 

I expect he will clean it up..........I've compared it to a guy like LeBron entering the NBA with a jump shot weakness and he gradually turned it into a big strength and that took a ton wear and tear off his body over time.

 

Allen getting a deep ball could do the same.    If you followed Cover 1 last season Allen often pulled the ball down and ran for first downs when he had created plenty of time to square his feet and throw and knew his man had single coverage beaten deep.   He knew that he could not trust his deep accuracy enough and instead ran the ball and took a hit to keep the chains moving.    

 

He has so much room for growth in that area and it could alter the trajectory of his career if he gains the kind of confidence that guys like Russell Wilson and Brady have in their ability to throw accurately over the top of defenses.

 

Of course it helps to have huge target deep ball winners like DK Metcalf and Mike Evans and Gronk even.    Josh has Diggs but he's a much smaller target and really is too good in short to intermediate routes to use too often deep.

[Green Lightning]

7 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He was 8th in the NFL last year.

Way to ruin a compelling post. 🤔

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

I couldn't find 40+ yard throws anywhere.  But give me game examples from last year (excluding the Baltimore game, for the reason already mentioned).

 

NFL.com gives number of completed 40+ yd passes, but it's not clear whether those are air yards or total yards

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/passing/2020/REG/all/passing40plusyardseach/DESC

 

Completion % is also not given.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

This is exactly how I see his role too.  Too many people see Brown out and Sanders in and think he’s the replacement.  He’s not.  His skill set is just too different from Brown’s, who’s job it was to be a speed receiver and who lined up at X.  But it’s just like Beasley’s, who is shifty and lines up at Z.  Sanders will take Beasley’s spot if he can’t go or when he needs a breather and he’ll be the second Z on 4 and 5 WR sets.  It was a good signing because we definitely needed that, but it doesn’t solve our other WR need. 

 

 

Beasley didn't line up at Z all that much, sometimes, but he was generally in the slot.

 

And I'm not sure what Sanders will be and I don't think anyone can be. He can play any role. He lined up everywhere at New Orleans. He's likely to be a puzzle piece they put in different places on different plays for different effects. I'd guess that he'll see a bunch of time at Z, as he did more than anything else in NOLA, and perhaps they'll run two slots sometimes, Beasley on one side and Sanders on the other.

 

In the article, Joe points out problems with good press coverage, so Z might be a good fit.

 

After watching all the Sanders' snaps last year Joe says he thinks Sanders will be starting ahead of Davis in three-receiver sets. That's my guess too, though it certainly could be wrong.

 

As for Brown, I didn't watch all that closely but I saw him playing both on the line and off it a pretty fair amount

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I still feel we need size and physicality more than Sanders, but he’s a good player.  For me, this team should have no issue moving the ball between the 20’s the question is what happens when you are deep in your own end or hit the RZ?  Guys that can physically whoop your @$$ are invaluable at that point, and there are none on this team outside of MAYBE Moss and JA, but I don’t want my QB as my hammer.

 

IF Knox can become the JuggerKnox again on a consistent basis, a big portion of the issue goes away.  Also, Davis needs to get WAY better at exploding to the ball, not jumping into catches and leaving himself open to being shoved around.  If those two come on strong, oh boy do we have something, if not, it’s too easy to jam up the small WR core and slow this team down.

I'm glad you're open to Davis growing into a "bigger" role as a physical/jump ball receiver. He flashed last season. Was a great 9-route guy in college. Shame he was limited by injury down the stretch for the Bills. 

 

We should also be open to Hodgins earning time on the field in 2021. He is a rangy dude (tall with long arms) with elite hands (according to scouting reports) and I'd argue sneaky athleticism (really solid agility and explosion numbers once you get past his 40 time). His camp last year was every bit as eye-opening as Davis's until he got hurt. He's the son of a long time NFL FB. He can hopefully play. 

 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I can tell you just off the top of my head he missed a deep ball against Patriots(week 8), and then two against the Seahawks(one to Brown, one to Diggs) in an otherwise incredible game from him. In fact, those two deep ball passes(traveled at least over 40 yards) were probably his only two missed throws/overthrows of the game..... I recall the commentator say after the overthrow to Diggs that it was the one part of his game that needs a little more work or something to that effect.

It’s no secret his deep throws, while better from basically an overthrow every time he threw them in 2019, are still inconsistent at best. 

 

Doesn’t seem to matter how big Russell Wilson’s receivers are, regardless of Metcalf.....his deep pass touch and timing is the best of the best.

 

 

You say that's no secret, but in fact it seems to be no secret to you but more of a secret to most everyone else.

 

You and Badol are asking for stats from others and then producing none yourself.

 

You're saying "It's no secret that," and following up with your opinion. Badol says "We all know that," and follows that up with an opinion as well, and it's an opinion that most here totally disagree with.

 

The two of you both seem to all know things that very few others actually do know.

 

Nothing wrong with opinions, but you are clearly in the minority here with those opinions, so where is your evidence?

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Beasley didn't line up at Z all that much, sometimes, but he was generally in the slot.

 

And I'm not sure what Sanders will be and I don't think anyone can be. He can play any role. He lined up everywhere at New Orleans. He's likely to be a puzzle piece they put in different places on different plays for different effects. I'd guess that he'll see a bunch of time at Z, as he did more than anything else in NOLA, and perhaps they'll run two slots sometimes, Beasley on one side and Sanders on the other.

 

In the article, Joe points out problems with good press coverage, so Z might be a good fit.

 

After watching all the Sanders' snaps last year Joe says he thinks Sanders will be starting ahead of Davis in three-receiver sets. That's my guess too, though it certainly could be wrong.

 

As for Brown, I didn't watch all that closely but I saw him playing both on the line and off it a pretty fair amount

You’re right.  I had a brain fart.  I meant slot.  No idea why I mixed up Z and slot. 

[JMF2006]

19 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Then I guess we need Davis and Hodgins to step up! They're big (Davis) and tall (Hodgins).

 

Don't forget Duke

[SWATeam]

23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The games is the evidence.... If you don't believe me just go back and watch them yourself.... since the Raider game, his deep ball was a struggle throughout the middle of the season.

Hmm...  About when did our deep ball receiver get injured???