Derek Chauvin Trial

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

500 killings of unarmed people by 750,000 law enforcement officers is not worth worrying about? That's around how many people are sadly killed in Chicago each year, a metro area with nearly 10 million people. 

That was my point that I used as an example in another post. The entire number of police shootings in a given year by ALL cops across the land isn’t far off from actual intentional murders in a single American City! Not worth worrying about. We have a violent crime problem in America, not a Cop problem. You’ve got a 1 in 4 million chance of being killed by a shark. How much time do you spend worrying about that? Perspective is a real thing. 

[Motorin']

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

That was my point that I used as an example in another post. The entire number of police shootings in a given year by ALL cops across the land isn’t far off from actual intentional murders in a single American City! Not worth worrying about. We have a violent crime problem in America, not a Cop problem. You’ve got a 1 in 4 million chance of being killed by a shark. How much time do you spend worrying about that? Perspective is a real thing. 

 

I thought the number of murders in Chicago were enough to have the Feds come in and take over bc it is like living in a 3rd world country? Now it's the equivalent of worrying about being killed by a shark. Cool perspective shift. 

[Melon]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

That was my point that I used as an example in another post. The entire number of police shootings in a given year by ALL cops across the land isn’t far off from actual intentional murders in a single American City! Not worth worrying about. We have a violent crime problem in America, not a Cop problem. You’ve got a 1 in 4 million chance of being killed by a shark. How much time do you spend worrying about that? Perspective is a real thing. 

 

Perspective is a real thing - and renders your example dumb.

 

If I'm a surfer my chances of getting bit by a shark are a bit different than if I'm sitting on my ass in Buffalo.

 

Surfers worry a ton about sharks attacking them. Dudes sitting at Cole's on a Friday night don't.

 

Blacks worry a ton about being shot by cops. You don't. 

 

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

I thought the number of murders in Chicago were enough to have the Feds come in and take over bc it is like living in a 3rd world country? Now it's the equivalent of worrying about being killed by a shark. Cool perspective shift. 

 

They care so much about Chicago - I wonder what community advocacy groups in Chicago they support?

[Chef Jim]

47 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Police shoot and kill over 500 unarmed people per year. Most of them bleed out because of the strength of the ammo. 

 

 

Strength of the ammo?  What does this mean?  

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I thought the number of murders in Chicago were enough to have the Feds come in and take over bc it is like living in a 3rd world country? Now it's the equivalent of worrying about being killed by a shark. Cool perspective shift. 

I’m talking about for those of us in the rest of the country, lol. In Chicago itself ? Yes it’s a huge problem. All across the land vs one City. Need the macro view when talking about stats across the country such as overall police shootings. If there were a thousand police involved shootings a year in Chicago, yeah that’s a problem. 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Strength of the ammo?  What does this mean?  

 

Lots of cops are using hallow point bullets. Hits center mass are killing people nearly instantaneously. 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Lots of cops are using hallow point bullets. Hits center mass are killing people nearly instantaneously. 

 

I know how hollow points work.  What would you prefer?  

[Melon]

 

[Boatdrinks]

27 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

Perspective is a real thing - and renders your example dumb.

 

If I'm a surfer my chances of getting bit by a shark are a bit different than if I'm sitting on my ass in Buffalo.

 

Surfers worry a ton about sharks attacking them. Dudes sitting at Cole's on a Friday night don't.

 

Blacks worry a ton about being shot by cops. You don't. 

 

 

They care so much about Chicago - I wonder what community advocacy groups in Chicago they support?

They need to check the numbers. They shouldn’t worry so much about Cops. They’re far more likely to be killed by someone who looks like them. Maybe even someone they know.  Shark attacks are more common in some waters than others. High surf definitely ups the risk. Still , tons of people go in the ocean in FLA, CAL, etc. the odds are still very low. Movies like Jaws stick in people’s minds. So does wildly sensationalized media coverage of some police involved shootings. It’s a perfect example. A dim bulb won’t figure it out though. 

5 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

So what ? They all had a degree of negligence. 

 

 

Yes, there are so many protests in Chicago over violent crime there. People are outraged and demanding justice for the hundreds upon hundreds of senseless murders happening in their community. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Boatdrinks

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I know how hollow points work.  What would you prefer?  

 

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. A quick Google search found 9mm handgun ammo at various strengths. 

 

My thought on this subject is that there may be a good ballance between stopping power and lethality for police to use in the first few round of their clip that can neutralize someone, while making it more likely they survive in the event of mistakes.

 

But have the round become more lethal after the first x number of shots in the event that maximum force is required. 

 

Maybe the exact technology with the right balance has yet to be developed, but it seems like a potential for reducing deaths in unarmed situations, while allowing the officer to administer true lethal force within milliseconds if needed. 

 

[Melon]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

They’re far more likely to be killed by someone who looks like them. 

 

So is every single demographic. It doesn't mean police brutality is not a problem.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Melon said:

 

So is every single demographic. It doesn't mean police brutality is not a problem.

You’re wrong. Same race vs same race violence is pretty even across ethnic groups, except for one. Heck, even different race vs different race violence is pretty even. Brush up on your facts and don’t believe the force fed media drivel. 

[Melon]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Same race vs same race violence is pretty even across ethnic groups, except for one. 

 

Care to show your data or say what group you're referring to?

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. A quick Google search found 9mm handgun ammo at various strengths. 

 

My thought on this subject is that there may be a good ballance between stopping power and lethality for police to use in the first few round of their clip that can neutralize someone, while making it more likely they survive in the event of mistakes.

 

But have the round become more lethal after the first x number of shots in the event that maximum force is required. 

 

Maybe the exact technology with the right balance has yet to be developed, but it seems like a potential for reducing deaths in unarmed situations, while allowing the officer to administer true lethal force within milliseconds if needed. 

 

 

It's not the weapons the officers have to use.  It's all about how to deescalate a situation which is really really hard.  There are times when the first shot NEEDS to be lethal.  But the challenge is determining in a split second if lethal force is required or not.  For instance tasers.  If a suspect has a handgun and the officer pulls their taser. The suspect pulls his weapon.  The officer is now out gunned (taser in hand firearm likely still holstered) and in big trouble.  As long as their are bad guys out there that are willing to fight to the death, and the officers do not know if the person they are facing has such a person cops will use lethal force.

 

As an aside we bought our first weapons when we lived in Oakland. We took lessons at a range where the OPD would train. The Range Master said they were some of the worst shots.  I guess when you're trained to unload your clip on a suspect accuracy is not important.  

[Melon]

4 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

Care to show your data or say what group you're referring to?

 

Here's the data I found.

 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rhovo1215.pdf

 

57% of crimes involving white victims were committed by white perpetrators. 15% were committed by blacks, and 11% by Hispanics.

 

63% of the crimes involving black victims were committed by black perpetrators. 11% percent were committed by whites, and 6.6% by Hispanics.

[Chef Jim]

24 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

Here's the data I found.

 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rhovo1215.pdf

 

57% of crimes involving white victims were committed by white perpetrators. 15% were committed by blacks, and 11% by Hispanics.

 

63% of the crimes involving black victims were committed by black perpetrators. 11% percent were committed by whites, and 6.6% by Hispanics.

I think there is a lot of research that says a high percentage of murders are committed by someone the victim knows.  Now I’m not saying that people do not accociate with people outside their race but it would explain a lot of these numbers. 

[Unforgiven]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

That was my point that I used as an example in another post. The entire number of police shootings in a given year by ALL cops across the land isn’t far off from actual intentional murders in a single American City! Not worth worrying about. We have a violent crime problem in America, not a Cop problem. You’ve got a 1 in 4 million chance of being killed by a shark. How much time do you spend worrying about that? Perspective is a real thing. 

They should do a study on how many Americans are shot by police who are not in the midst of

committing a crime and/or being on drugs...my guess is right around 0

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Motorin' said:

Police shoot and kill over 500 unarmed people per year. Most of them bleed out because of the strength of the ammo. 

 

I'd like to ask the officer who shot 13 year old Adam Toldeo once in the chest if he wished his first round didn't kill him on impact. 

 

You'll need to provide evidence of this claim.

 

Edit: I believe you're overstating it by a factor of 10.  I remember the number being about 50, with 9 of them being blacks, 19 being white and the rest others.  I do recall that Asians were disproportionately low, so I guess the cops are systemically non-racist against them.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Doc

[Tiberius]

On 4/20/2021 at 6:24 PM, RiotAct said:

not surprised Pelosi said that at all.  She’s not well and has no business being in a position of power any more.

So, did Jesus really die for our sins, or did the Roman's simply kill him to shut him up? 

[Melon]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

I think there is a lot of research that says a high percentage of murders are committed by someone the victim knows.  Now I’m not saying that people do not accociate with people outside their race but it would explain a lot of these numbers. 

 

That is also true.

 

Still curious about the data and group @Boatdrinks is referring to.