Derek Chauvin Trial

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

59 minutes ago, Beast said:

The first autopsy?

Pretty sure it did. 

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m curious. Were the excessive force arrests all involving black people? 

No. He pulled a gun on a middle school kid that was not. 
 

[Beast]

59 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Pretty sure it did. 
 

Not by legal culpability or intent. That’s why a hired gun had to do a second autopsy.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Beast

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Pretty sure it did. 

No. He pulled a gun on a middle school kid that was not. 
 

So if that’s true; how in the hell can this case be the predicate for ‘systemic racism’?  Answer: It can’t be! Sounds like a cop who has some anger management issues. 

[BillStime]

 

[frostbitmic]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:15 PM, SoCal Deek said:

I’m curious. Were the excessive force arrests all involving black people? 

2 Black

1 Hispanic

1 Native American

2 not reported

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:54 PM, SoCal Deek said:

So if that’s true; how in the hell can this case be the predicate for ‘systemic racism’?  Answer: It can’t be! Sounds like a cop who has some anger management issues. 

You know why. A simple diagnosis of Scumbag cop doesn’t forward the cause. 

[Tiberius]

 ER Doctor: Asphyxia  

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 ER Doctor: Asphyxia  

 

Devi's advocate here.  This could tie very well into the defense's claim that his drug use, not the knee to the neck, caused his death.

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-asphyxiation-21972

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Devi's advocate here.  This could tie very well into the defense's claim that his drug use, not the knee to the neck, caused his death.

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-asphyxiation-21972

The problem with the state's case is their strategy conflicts with the findings of their own medical examiner.  The ME concluded asphyxiation was not the cause of death.  This is an unusual approach.  The defense is not claiming drug use contributed to the cause death.  They are expressing the opinion of the ME.  Typically the defense might dispute the ME's finding, but the State?  This might create a quandary for the jury to resolve and might also lead them to not convict on the most serious charges and point to a manslaughter conviction as most likely.  

[Chef Jim]

50 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The problem with the state's case is their strategy conflicts with the findings of their own medical examiner.  The ME concluded asphyxiation was not the cause of death.  This is an unusual approach.  The defense is not claiming drug use contributed to the cause death.  They are expressing the opinion of the ME.  Typically the defense might dispute the ME's finding, but the State?  This might create a quandary for the jury to resolve and might also lead them to not convict on the most serious charges and point to a manslaughter conviction as most likely.  

 

I really don't think there was intent to kill.  Why I think manslaughter really should be the conviction. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

I really don't think there was intent to kill.  Why I think manslaughter really should be the conviction. 

 

What was the intent when Floyd was found pulseless and Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck?

[Chef Jim]

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

What was the intent when Floyd was found pulseless and Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck?

Power controlled by a deep hatred. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Power controlled by a deep hatred. 

 

That may be what precipitated it but continuing to kneel on his neck after he's unconscious and pulseless is murder.

[Wacka]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That may be what precipitated it but continuing to kneel on his neck after he's unconscious and pulseless is murder.

How can it be murder? The ME said no signs of asphyxia and he is pulseless? Suicide by fentanyl or  OD.

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That may be what precipitated it but continuing to kneel on his neck after he's unconscious and pulseless is murder.

Voluntary Manslaughter. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Wacka said:

How can it be murder? The ME said no signs of asphyxia and he is pulseless? Suicide by fentanyl or  OD.

Because Chauvin killed  him. Floyd was alive, then Chauvin did what he did, and Floyd was dead. At this point the only questions are whether it was intended or not. 

[Gene Frenkle]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:54 PM, SoCal Deek said:

So if that’s true; how in the hell can this case be the predicate for ‘systemic racism’?  Answer: It can’t be! Sounds like a cop who has some anger management issues. 

 

On 4/4/2021 at 10:50 PM, frostbitmic said:

2 Black

1 Hispanic

1 Native American

2 not reported

 

Kinda blows that theory, huh? Good try though.

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Because Chauvin killed  him. Floyd was alive, then Chauvin did what he did, and Floyd was dead. At this point the only questions are whether it was intended or not. 

 

9 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Voluntary Manslaughter. 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

[Orlando Tim]

25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

 once Floyd had the cuffs on him and he is lying on his stomach he is no longer a threat. If you maintain the choke hold more than a few seconds past that point then Chauvin starts to become responsible. I find it interesting that most here from what I see agree it is manslaughter with just basic knowledge of law, because the video takes out a lot of questions.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

46 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

I think he’s going down on the most severe charge filed. This case is about as high profile as you can get and the downside to guilty on a lesser charge is incalculable.  The downside of a member of the jury not being influenced by the potential ramifications of their vote is huge.  There are no offsets—Chauvin controlled the scene, he controlled the victim, he showed a disregard for Floyd’s humanity—and if it’s a technical spread between the harshest punishment and the next level down, very few people are going to spend much time shedding tears for the guy.