Who thinks teaching is a hard job?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

New poll

[Doc Brown]

Are we talking elementary or secondary teachers?

[Orlando Tim]

Teaching is very different than other jobs so it is hard to compare directly since to be good at teaching you have to be emotionally invested. I was good at several jobs in the finance sector because I did not get emotional, it was money flowing and nothing else mattered. 

[T master]

OMG !!! My wife owns a day care and seeing the way parents today parent is just unreal they would rather be on FB or Twitter doing social media BS than being a parent and leave parenting up to the teachers & some go as far as wanting the gov't to tell them how to parent .

 

Discipline due to the consequences for your actions is a thing of the past just take away a toy or sit in time out then the teachers are left to deal with the unruly disrespect of a child but are expected to treat the child as mommies little angel that would do nothing wrong . WTH .

 

One child my wife had while in her care the parent was told 100's of times that she needed to help with the child's unruliness usually on a daily basis while at day care red cards every other day . 

 

He went on to kindergarten and while walking in line down the hall he pulls the fire alarm (this was with in the first 2 weeks of kindergarten) when brought to the principles office accompanied by the mother her response was, "seeing as there was a fire alarm on that side of the hall don't you think the teacher should walk the class on the other side of the hall way" 🙄 modern day parenting .

 

The following week the same kid kicked another boy in the groin hard enough he went to the floor while standing waiting to go to the bath room i was hoping the kid he kicked (after he got up off the floor) would have stood up & punched him right in the mouth IMHO he had every right to !!

 

 Right or wrong the kid wouldn't have done that to him again because the mom sure as hell isn't teaching him any thing & that's just the first 2 weeks .

 

Then we wonder why these young people go out and shoot and kill others they are raised with no consequences to their actions and little to no discipline at all . I really feel for the teachers and they need to be paid like some of these Pro Football players to put up with the BS they do ...

[Unforgiven]

Teaching wouldn't be too hard if parents weren't crappy.

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure what this is about. Most, if not all, work is hard in its own way. That’s why it’s called work. Try digging ditches, picking fruit, saving lives in a hospital, chasing criminals, running into a burning building, etc. If the point is to suggest that teachers aren’t paid enough I would disagree. Our society pays people what our society has decided the work is worth. That’s true for all jobs. (Except of course for the Kardashian’s...nobody knows what those people are about!)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure what this is about. Most, if not all, work is hard in its own way. That’s why it’s called work. Try digging ditches, picking fruit, saving lives in a hospital, chasing criminals, running into a burning building, etc. If the point is to suggest that teachers aren’t paid enough I would disagree. Our society pays people what our society has decided the work is worth. That’s true for all jobs. (Except of course for the Kardashian’s...nobody knows what those people are about!)

That would’ve been a better poll question. 
 

My real curiosity is are people generally ok with covid relief going to teachers bonuses because they are underpaid anyway. 
 

since the poll is overwhelmingly yes, I suspect that people are ok with it, so therefore I need to be to.  

[GaryPinC]

  All I know is if I were a teacher I would be so deeply appreciative to have all the school holidays, 2 week winter break, one week spring break, and 10 weeks or so off every summer while still getting 10 days or so for sick/personal time and all while earning a good living.  You'd never hear me complain to non-teachers no matter how hard the students, job, etc. are.

 

Back in 2014 out of curiosity, I found my son's second grade teacher, in Ohio with a master's degree, was paid 86,000 a year.  So count me as one who believes they get paid plenty.

 

Then there's things like the second Covid dose this year.  School did it on Wednesday, gave everyone Thursday off for any side effects.  Of course early Thursday afternoon get a call from the district that too many teachers, bus drivers, staff felt they'd be too sick to work Friday so we took that day off too.  Wouldn't schedule that on Thursday or even Friday because it might bleed into their weekend.

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

I love all these comments about teacher salaries from people who likely never stepped a foot in their shoes in a classroom.

 

Teachers deserve their time off; as their jobs are endless during the school year. They also spend their own money for supplies that likely benefit YOUR CHILDREN.

 

Why Teachers Should be Payed More

 

Here's how much every US state pays its teachers and how much they spend on each student

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

34 minutes ago, BillStime said:

I love all these comments about teacher salaries from people who likely never stepped a foot in their shoes in a classroom.

 

Teachers deserve their time off; as their jobs are endless during the school year. They also spend their own money for supplies that likely benefit YOUR CHILDREN.

 

Why Teachers Should be Payed More

 

Here's how much every US state pays its teachers and how much they spend on each student

 

 

 

 

 

oh the horror, think people whose are just endless, during a the quarter of the year called summer too. 

 

issue with teaching among the many I know, is little differentiation or meritocracy in compensation structure so it’s disenfranchising.

 

My gym teacher and soccer coach in 1992 made $78k, in Buffalo suburbs. that pretty sweet for keeping the dodgeballs inflated and occasionally blowing a whistle. 
 

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

oh the horror, think people whose are just endless, during a the quarter of the year called summer too. 

 

issue with teaching among the many I know, is little differentiation or meritocracy in compensation structure so it’s disenfranchising.

 

My gym teacher and soccer coach in 1992 made $78k, in Buffalo suburbs. that pretty sweet for keeping the dodgeballs inflated and occasionally blowing a whistle. 
 

 

I call bullshitttt on your gym teacher making $78K in 1992.

 

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d95/dtab078.asp

 

 

You know teacher salaries are public information, right?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

I call bullshitttt on your gym teacher making $78K in 1992.

 

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d95/dtab078.asp

 

 

You know teacher salaries are public information, right?

That’s How I found it, it was actually published in a newspaper I think. I might be misremembering, Williamsville south positive it was in the 70’s. 

The athletic director was six figures. 

[oldmanfan]

One of my bucket list things is to do a commencement address for a college or high school graduating class.  And in that, I would recognize some outstanding teachers I've had over the years.  It is a hard job; I have a niece that teaches elementary school and the hours she puts in are insane.  I teach part time at a local university and medical school, and even for that I have to put in a lot of time in lesson preparation and such.

 

The other thing I would stress in a commencement address are work ethic and personal responsibility.  The teachers I've had and the ones I teach with now by and large have both.  The students?  Not so much.  I think the biggest failures in our society right now are a lack of work ethic, and a lack of personal accountability and responsibility.  Too many students don't study hard, and there are way too many parents that enable their kids and look to blame the teacher instead of their kid.

[716er]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure what this is about. 

 

OP is hating on teachers and trying to dox one in the stimulus thread. 

Trying to get others to band with, I assume.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by 716er

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

OP is hating on teachers and trying to dox one in the stimulus thread. 

Trying to get others to band with, I assume.

 

No really not. I explained above. I used the this poll to help rationalize acceptance of stimulus money being paid out as bonuses.
 

Not trying to band anything. I was curious what the community thought. And the conclusion is overwhelming and indisputable. 
 

Poll to me validates it’s appropriate, so I need to accept it is too. 
 

As for that thread, yeah, got sucked in. Mea culpa. I won’t be engaging that one again. 

[SoTier]

 

2 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

  All I know is if I were a teacher I would be so deeply appreciative to have all the school holidays, 2 week winter break, one week spring break, and 10 weeks or so off every summer while still getting 10 days or so for sick/personal time and all while earning a good living.  You'd never hear me complain to non-teachers no matter how hard the students, job, etc. are.

 

Back in 2014 out of curiosity, I found my son's second grade teacher, in Ohio with a master's degree, was paid 86,000 a year.  So count me as one who believes they get paid plenty.

 

Then there's things like the second Covid dose this year.  School did it on Wednesday, gave everyone Thursday off for any side effects.  Of course early Thursday afternoon get a call from the district that too many teachers, bus drivers, staff felt they'd be too sick to work Friday so we took that day off too.  Wouldn't schedule that on Thursday or even Friday because it might bleed into their weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoken like somebody who has never ventured into a school except under duress.   As a former teacher who traded all those days off and "fat" paychecks and benies for a "regular" job in IT, I can say from experience that teachers' time off and renumeration are greatly overvalued by those not in the trenches.    Teachers' days don't end when they walk out of school because they bring work home with them, usually lesson plans that need to be created/revised or papers to correct.   Many of the days or half days when students are not in the classroom, teachers are attending meetings and "in-service" training sessions. 

 

Most parents have found out this past year how hard it is to deal with only their own children all day, every day, when their kids aren't particularly interested in doing something.  Multiply that several times over for teachers and add into the mix the natural tendency for not all people (including children) to get along with one another.  That's not even counting the kids who may come to school with other issues that influence their behavior or the administrators who decide to micro-manage how the curriculum is taught or a colleague who always manages to get under your skin or how warm, sunny days can distract even the best students.

 

My guess is that you wouldn't last a day.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

This is an interesting topic, glad you started it.  I think it gives us the opportunity to reset a bit from the haymakers thrown at each other.  Just yesterday @transplantbillsfan implied/inferred that I had a major issue with the NY public school system.  To be fair, I can understand why he might feel that way.  Between thoughts exchanged, the occasional busting of chops and some personal feelings I have on this subject, I can understand his perspective although that's not accurate.   

 

First--we start at the beginning.  I have a healthy respect and admiration for any person undertaking an honest days work for an honest days pay.  Janitor, dentist, Walmart greeter, postman, civil servant, construction worker, plumber and of course, teacher.    I've benefitted from some excellent experiences with teachers/professors/coaches, I appreciate the time and effort they put in, but for me it was always less about the job of being a "teacher", more about the individual.  As with every other walk of life, I've encountered my share of average to apathetic teachers, and a precious few were just nasty people. Most weigh in at just about average.  

 

For me, it's not so much about teaching being 'hard', it's about it not being easy.  As Deek pointed out, there are many. many professions that I personally would consider 'hard', and teaching doesn't fall into that category.  I have a family member who works for UPS, and I would classify what he does as hard.  Long hours. The occasional difficult customer. Very difficult management structure.  The cumulative tens of thousands of jackasses on the road each and every day playing frogger with a big old box truck.  On the other hand, he'd probably tell you he is well-compensated and he rarely if ever actually complains about it.  Before insulting anyone, let me also state that teaching isn't easy.  

 

Part of the challenge is that regardless of what the individual teacher might want to believe, the reality in NY is that it's a benefit rich job with virtual cradle to grave entitlements and as a result, with funding by way of school tax going directly from taxpayer to teacher (at least in part) and the expectation is that the service provided should be exceptional.  Whether it is or isn't is in the eye of the beholder, one would assume that a non-teacher will have a different perspective on what success looks like than a teacher will.  

 

My own thought process is that far too often, the tail wags the dog.  A few years ago, our district was looking to do some improvements, add some teachers, upgrade a computer lab and so on.  The cost of the project was $34,000,000, but the district included a $9,000,000 slush fund 'just in case', and incredibly advised voters that if the money wasn't needed, it would just be used for whatever else the district thought made sense.  Just prior to the referendum, a number of concerned citizens conducted a grass roots campaign to defeat the referendum, and it worked.  The superintendent was disappointed and felt the vote was mischaracterized, but as far as I can tell, all that happened was a light was shined on the district and some questionable business practices were revealed.  

 

I'd think--like most jobs--a relatively small percentage of the general population can be a successful teacher.   The offshoot  (NY specific) is that compensation is good, benefits exceptional and career shelf life very attractive.  30 years and out, retirement at 55, a financial obligation on the tax payer to fund the retiree for another 32 years (actuarily speaking) at a cost of a couple million dollars before we even talk about health care is an awesome package--but ultimately unsustainable.  

 

By the way--another issue that drives frustration for me on this subject...with business large and small struggling to simply stay afloat during the pandemic, and scores of businesses (often the enemy of the left) doing their level best to give back, forgive, reassess and reallocate to help the American people...I found it quite telling that when it came time to pay the tax bill to fund the government, the ONLY accommodation made was that the local town tax offices had reduced (or non-existent) hours to serve the public.   To boot--tax was due, on time, postmark date required under penalty/threat of law.  That's just the system we live in, and it's part of the reason there can be some animosity directed towards it. 

 

That is all. 

 

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

Spoken like somebody who has never ventured into a school except under duress.   As a former teacher who traded all those days off and "fat" paychecks and benies for a "regular" job in IT, I can say from experience that teachers' time off and renumeration are greatly overvalued by those not in the trenches.    Teachers' days don't end when they walk out of school because they bring work home with them, usually lesson plans that need to be created/revised or papers to correct.   Many of the days or half days when students are not in the classroom, teachers are attending meetings and "in-service" training sessions. 

 

Most parents have found out this past year how hard it is to deal with only their own children all day, every day, when their kids aren't particularly interested in doing something.  Multiply that several times over for teachers and add into the mix the natural tendency for not all people (including children) to get along with one another.  That's not even counting the kids who may come to school with other issues that influence their behavior or the administrators who decide to micro-manage how the curriculum is taught or a colleague who always manages to get under your skin or how warm, sunny days can distract even the best students.

 

My guess is that you wouldn't last a day.

Humbly, I suggest that you may have lacked the temperament to be an effective teacher over the long haul. 

[Doc Brown]

I'd rather be a hot tar roofer than an elementary school teacher.  Middle or high school teachers have a very easy job.

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Teachers' days don't end when they walk out of school because they bring work home with them, 

Like most of us. 
 

I don’t get summers and massive other holidays though. Stop with the teacher whining. 
 

They have a very important job. It’s hard in its way. It’s got some amazing upside benefits that it’s ok to brag about. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, BillStime said:

I love all these comments about teacher salaries from people who likely never stepped a foot in their shoes in a classroom.

 

Teachers deserve their time off; as their jobs are endless during the school year. They also spend their own money for supplies that likely benefit YOUR CHILDREN.

 

Why Teachers Should be Payed More

 

Here's how much every US state pays its teachers and how much they spend on each student

 

 

 

 

Cut the crap!  My wife is a teacher. She is paid very well and knows it. And....the reason they pay for their own supplies is because the teacher's union has decided they would rather have the money now, and invested into their lifelong pensions. Your complaint shouldn't be with the public...it should be with your union!