Orlando Tim Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: Nope, it takes money to make money There is also the fact that culture has been seriously affected by racism. Not being able to have a good job or access to education does affect culture. So the culture you are talking about was actually formed in reaction to serious, oppressive racism You said something about stupid? It takes hard work to make money- I have several minority friends who grew up dirt poor but make more than me now. Your point is invalid against the immigrants also. It is culture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: Nope, it takes money to make money There is also the fact that culture has been seriously affected by racism. Not being able to have a good job or access to education does affect culture. So the culture you are talking about was actually formed in reaction to serious, oppressive racism You said something about stupid? Not really true. Most people in America who have really significant money started with almost no money at all. I had literally NONE when I started out in my adult life. So, if 'it takes money to make money' then where did mine come from? Is this akin to the Big Bang Theory? Everyone knows the formula for success, but very few have the dedication to stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: It takes hard work to make money- I have several minority friends who grew up dirt poor but make more than me now. Your point is invalid against the immigrants also. It is culture. I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. No one is saying it had no bearing on the present, but that was 60 years ago my friend...people from all over the world come here with nothing and our system allows them to achieve greater...look at Oprah...grew up during Jim Crow- now one of the wealthiest women in the world...only in America! 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: No one is saying it had no bearing on the present, but that was 60 years ago my friend...people from all over the world come here with nothing and our system allows them to achieve greater...look at Oprah...grew up during Jim Crow- now one of the wealthiest women in the world...only in America! 👍 Oh absolutely, some people rise up. Most, the vast majority, do not. Heck, why use immigrants? Look at what blacks have done since they finally had the knee taken off their necks. Ten percent earn over $100,000 now. But to expect most of them to is unrealistic. Look at all the poor whites who never even faced racist oppression. Is their culture bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Look at all the poor whites who never even faced racist oppression. Is their culture bad? YES!!!! Most common indicators of crime and poverty is # of parents in household. if you grow up in a culture, irrespective of your skin pigment, that doesn’t value education, doesn’t have family unit values of some kind... you’re likely to lose in life. It’s a fact that not a single of the race baiters are willing to address, because it disarms the power sought by polarization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: Nope, it takes money to make money How much? 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. More interesting racist like words. Unless of course you grew up in the 40’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Tiberius said: Most black people were simply shut off from the good things in American society. Why try to deny that? You seem angry at the truth. And why? Culture, mostly Not angry Tibs, just want to see us move forward and blame does not help. I have lived thru Affirmative Action BS. The issues are more cultural than color. Believe me I would love to wake up with Beyonce's head on my shoulder than ,Melissa McCarthy and that has nothing to do with color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: Oh absolutely, some people rise up. Most, the vast majority, do not. Heck, why use immigrants? Look at what blacks have done since they finally had the knee taken off their necks. Ten percent earn over $100,000 now. But to expect most of them to is unrealistic. Look at all the poor whites who never even faced racist oppression. Is their culture bad? Tibs. People of all colors get up every day and make a decision about how they want to live their lives. Everyone does. You can always look backward and say "I should be better off, but for this and that" everyone does to one extent of another and from time to time. Or you can say "today I'm going to make changes that end up in a better tomorrow for me and my family". Every....single....day. You study in school. You study after school. You stop hanging out with the wrong crowd. You save your money, instead of spending it all. You give up vices that are you keeping you down and holding you back. Every....single...day. Success is an individual decision, no matter what color you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. Your final comment is not similar to your initial statement. You initially said racism is main reason blacks are behind. Of course racism exists and it still holds back some people. It is bad that our country held back quality people and our country has benefited from allowing all of our people to flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Your final comment is not similar to your initial statement. You initially said racism is main reason blacks are behind. Of course racism exists and it still holds back some people. It is bad that our country held back quality people and our country has benefited from allowing all of our people to flourish. The fallacy is looking at people in groups. People neither succeed or fail as a group. Once you go down that rabbit hole you can never get out. And that’s right where Mr Tibs wants to lead you, if you’ll let him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: I agree it’s also culture. Money affects culture, and the filthy hateful racist scum made sure black people could not get much. You agree? You do agree black people suffered under a terrible oppression before the late 1960s at least, right? Can you agree to that? May dad had a great job when I was a kid. If he was black that would have most likely no of been true. You are making a racist racist argument if you are saying the discrimination of the past has no bearing on the present. Stop with the past bs and fix the future. If the Bills worried about how the Patsys kicked their butt in 2007 that does not help them in 2021. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 10 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: Stop with the past bs and fix the future. If the Bills worried about how the Patsys kicked their butt in 2007 that does not help them in 2021. Why should we just forget about history? You want to white wash history? You must be a Trump supporter with your wanting to toss the past down the Orwellian burn hole. 12 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Your final comment is not similar to your initial statement. You initially said racism is main reason blacks are behind. Of course racism exists and it still holds back some people. It is bad that our country held back quality people and our country has benefited from allowing all of our people to flourish. But racism in the past has a direct impact on people's lives today. That's just a truth 14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: YES!!!! Most common indicators of crime and poverty is # of parents in household. if you grow up in a culture, irrespective of your skin pigment, that doesn’t value education, doesn’t have family unit values of some kind... you’re likely to lose in life. It’s a fact that not a single of the race baiters are willing to address, because it disarms the power sought by polarization. Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 23 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Why should we just forget about history? You want to white wash history? You must be a Trump supporter with your wanting to toss the past down the Orwellian burn hole. But racism in the past has a direct impact on people's lives today. That's just a truth Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? I think we all can agree that racism exists and is a problem. The debate to me is really on the impact of such behavior. And identifying the right and most impactful cause of the problem in order to apply some "fixes". Because my conclusion is you can "fix" all the racism issues you want and it isn't going to materially change the outcome for most people you are intending to help. That's pretty much it for me. You fix the wrong thing and you still have the same problem. So if you disagree I guess the fundamental question is "do you really believe that racism is the number one factor holding people back in our society in 2021"? Do you believe that other factors have less impact? Like education level, a stable family environment, a safe neighborhood, access to jobs and opportunity, drug and alcohol abuse, crime, avoiding "bad" social influences. And other things. So... If race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many whites living in poverty? if race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many affluent minorities? If race is truly the key factor how can you explain how recent African immigrants are as a demographic much more successful than Americans of African descent? if race is truly the key factor how can you explain how Asians as a group score much higher than Whites in standardized tests (which many claim favor whites) like SAT's and other exams? Just to specify a few examples.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 40 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? Data is out there if you choose to look. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 36 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Why should we just forget about history? You want to white wash history? You must be a Trump supporter with your wanting to toss the past down the Orwellian burn hole. But racism in the past has a direct impact on people's lives today. That's just a truth Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? I did not suggest we forget history but it is harmful to the solution to keep throwing it in my face when people are trying to be more progressive. It is not necessary to punish me for my grandfathrrs actions. The Christians churches financed the killing of native North Americans so do you hold the present priest/preacher accountable. Because I want to have real equality and solutions I am a trumper. You are sick man. You don't need to be a left wing progressive to want equality, peace and love. You are wearing your crown of thorns too tight. btw! I think trump is the most despicable human being and politician imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I think we all can agree that racism exists and is a problem. The debate to me is really on the impact of such behavior. And identifying the right and most impactful cause of the problem in order to apply some "fixes". Because my conclusion is you can "fix" all the racism issues you want and it isn't going to materially change the outcome for most people you are intending to help. That's pretty much it for me. You fix the wrong thing and you still have the same problem. So if you disagree I guess the fundamental question is "do you really believe that racism is the number one factor holding people back in our society in 2021"? Do you believe that other factors have less impact? Like education level, a stable family environment, a safe neighborhood, access to jobs and opportunity, drug and alcohol abuse, crime, avoiding "bad" social influences. And other things. So... If race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many whites living in poverty? if race is truly the key factor how can you explain so many affluent minorities? If race is truly the key factor how can you explain how recent African immigrants are as a demographic much more successful than Americans of African descent? if race is truly the key factor how can you explain how Asians as a group score much higher than Whites in standardized tests (which many claim favor whites) like SAT's and other exams? Just to specify a few examples.. What is the "fix" you are talking about? 1 minute ago, Niagara Bill said: I did not suggest we forget history but it is harmful to the solution to keep throwing it in my face when people are trying to be more progressive. It is not necessary to punish me for my grandfathrrs actions. The Christians churches financed the killing of native North Americans so do you hold the present priest/preacher accountable. Because I want to have real equality and solutions I am a trumper. You are sick man. You don't need to be a left wing progressive to want equality, peace and love. You are wearing your crown of thorns too tight. btw! I think trump is the most despicable human being and politician imaginable. Punish you? Who is punishing you? What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? I can only find one left wing group who admits the data is there. "The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents" https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/ 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? I can only find one left wing group who admits the data is there. "The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents" https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/ 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Can you back this up with some sort of non-hard core right wing source? I can only find one left wing group who admits the data is there. "The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents" https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-complex-connection-between-single-parent-families-and-crime/265860/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 49 minutes ago, Tiberius said: What is the "fix" you are talking about? I expected you've been paying attention to events. If you want to end racism what would you propose? Give me your top 5 initiatives and what impact each would have on ending racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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