I absolutely HATE our team’s focus on Special Teams

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I got the year mixed up.  2018, we were 14th with a non-rookie kicker.

 

Matakevich and Roberts both play other positions.  Roberts was our 6th WR and Matkevich is a 3rd string linebacker.  That where they are listed.

Most 3rd string players don't make the team if they can't special teams.  For whatever reason, fans have problems with us doing it when every single NFL team does.

 

Agree on the 3rd stringers, but I'm not sure all teams spend $2.75 M on a 3rd string LB.  I think people like myself think you don't have to pay 3rd string players $2.75 M for 10 special teams tackles all year.  I believe you can get an UDFA small LB with speed to get 10 special teams tackles for the league minimum.  Roberts had an impact - not denying that, but how many times did we also say please just stay in the endzone.  A DB that is your 8th or 9th DB can field punts and kick-offs and they do not need to be paid $1.3 M.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

27 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Agree on the 3rd stringers, but I'm not sure all teams spend $2.75 M on a 3rd string LB.  I think people like myself think you don't have to pay 3rd string players $2.75 M for 10 special teams tackles all year.  I believe you can get an UDFA small LB with speed to get 10 special teams tackles for the league minimum.  Roberts had an impact - not denying that, but how many times did we also say please just stay in the endzone.  A DB that is your 8th or 9th DB can field punts and kick-offs and they do not need to be paid $1.3 M.  

 

 

You can't always box score scout.  You are only seeing the broadcast view and you don't know what's happening when the ball is in the air because it's not on the screen.  If you can get a UDFA small LB with speed for league minimum, then every team would only do that.  Why aren't they?

 

Tyler Matkevich is getting a higher salary because he's a good special teams guy.  If he was only a 3rd string linebacker and average special teammer, then he wouldn't make that much.  Did Brad Lamb make as much as Steve Tasker?  You generally pay more for a better player.

 

Matthew Slater has been extended 3 times by the Pats.  He's literally only a Special Teams guy.  He has one catch in his 13 year career.  

For some reason, we aren't allowed to use him as an example.  

The Patriots went on the greatest run in NFL history and they always focused on special teams....but we can't use them as an example.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

It’s really not. At all.

If it makes you feel any better, Bills dont have have a kick returner ...

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Don’t forget.......

 

ah nm, I don’t want to get suspended 

I am so confused.

[WotAGuy]

FireChans is just PO’ed that Jauronimo’s QB controversy thread went down in flames. 

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You can't always box score scout.  You are only seeing the broadcast view and you don't know what's happening when the ball is in the air because it's not on the screen.

 

Tyler Matkevich is getting a higher salary because he's a good special teams guy.  If he was only a 3rd string linebacker and average special teammer, then he wouldn't make that much.  Did Brad Lamb make as much as Steve Tasker?  You generally pay more for a better player.

 

Matthew Slater has been extended 3 times by the Pats.  He's literally only a Special Teams guy.  He has one catch in his 13 year career.  

For some reason, we aren't allowed to use him as an example.  

The Patriots went on the greatest run in NFL history and they always focused on special teams....but we can't use them as an example.

 

 

Yup.

 

Generally the Super Bowl winner cares about special teams. The Gosselin rankings consistently reflect that. It's not common when a Super Bowl winner isn't top ten in Gosselin. 

 

Smart teams recognize that they can get an advantage in special teams and they do it. It does cost a bit extra, but the extra we pay for special teamers is miniscule in terms of it's percentage of the salary cap. 

 

The Pats are a great example, but while the Chiefs didn't make the top ten this year, they did in 2019 and 2018. Reid cares about STs. I can't find the STs rankings for 2018, there's some kind of tech problem at the Dallas news, but the Eagles  had been #1 in STs the year before they won the SB. They care.  

[nedboy7]

You are right.  I suggest we fire McBean and put in someone who gets it. 

[Agent 91]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

This is lunacy. This is idiotic. 
 

Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? 
 

It flies in the face of modern NFLdom. Rule changes have basically eliminated the return game. Why are we signing top end STers to prop up this phase, instead of dedicating more money to the other phases that actually matter?

 

The ST coach’s job on a team that’s contending should be to coach up a bunch of cheap backups and late round draft picks into a decent unit. Not need dedicated gunners being signed to modest contracts. 
 

It’s upsetting to say the least.

They would just use it on the d line

[JoPoy88]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

This is lunacy. This is idiotic. 
 

Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? 
 

It flies in the face of modern NFLdom. Rule changes have basically eliminated the return game. Why are we signing top end STers to prop up this phase, instead of dedicating more money to the other phases that actually matter?

 

The ST coach’s job on a team that’s contending should be to coach up a bunch of cheap backups and late round draft picks into a decent unit. Not need dedicated gunners being signed to modest contracts. 
 

It’s upsetting to say the least.

overreacting, even for around here. I assume you’re reacting to the T. Jones resigning. You need to understand we’re talking about a small handful of specialist guys at the bottom of your roster. Replacing those guys with marginally better offensive or defensive talents isn’t going to make your team any better; those guys are still going to be 3rd or 4th stringers depending on position group and see next to no actual game snaps. In fact, it probably makes your team worse overall, because abandoning impact players on special teams (they do still exist, despite your ranting) hurts the team more than saving a couple of guys who get <5 snaps a game.

Edited March 19, 2021 by JoPoy88

[Alphadawg7]

How on Earth is this thread at 10 pages?  Lmao

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

How on Earth is this thread at 10 pages?  Lmao

People love to humor firechans’ ravings I guess. Pretty sure that’s what he’s going for, so win/win I suppose.

[JGMcD2]

I am going to wrap this thread up at 10 pages with actual information from the 2020 season as it pertains to ST only players and the resources allocated to them.

 

I'll define here what I considered a ST only player...

 

A ST only player is a player that played over 40% of snaps on ST while simultaneously playing less than 10% of snaps on offense and/or defense. This does not include specialists (K, P or LS).

 

I went on PFR and went through all 14 teams that qualified for the playoffs. I sorted by ST snaps and took every player that fit my criteria listed above (40% > ST snaps and <10% off/def snaps). From there I went to Spotrac and individually searched every player that fit my criteria to figure out each player's average salary from the 2020 season.

 

To recap:

• Only playoff teams
• Must be a free agent signing
• Must play more than 40% of ST snaps
• Must play less than 10% of snaps on offense or defense
• Does not include K, P or LS

 

Findings:

 

10/14 playoff teams employed players on their rosters in 2020 to play primarily special teams. The average playoff team allocated roster spots to 2 ST players signed to UFA deals.

 

$5M - Bills, Steelers and Saints

$4M - Buccaneers

$3.5M - Bears

$3M - Titans, Ravens

$2M - Seahawks

$1M - Chiefs and Football Team 

 

Conclusion:

 

Yes, the Buffalo Bills were at the upper limit when it came to playoff teams spending money on ST but they did not significantly outspend the teams around them. New Orleans and Pittsburgh spent just as much with the Super Bowl champs right behind them. They also have not wasted roster spots on ST players any more than any other playoff team.

 

Verdict:

 

This thread is a bust.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by JGMcD2

[machine gun kelly]

8 hours ago, 17islongenough said:

This board is crazy

 

Yo, fast man, I was crazy insane for this little .....  Crazy?  Insane?  I was nuts for this woman.

 

 

Enjoy.  A frat buddy and myself used to imitate this scene all the time when at parties.  He loved my Hall voice.  Great movie for the youngins.  It’s silly but hilarious.

[machine gun kelly]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I am going to wrap this thread up at 10 pages with actual information from the 2020 season as it pertains to ST only players and the resources allocated to them.

 

I'll define here what I considered a ST only player...

 

A ST only player is a player that played over 40% of snaps on ST while simultaneously playing less than 10% of snaps on offense and/or defense. This does not include specialists (K, P or LS).

 

I went on PFR and went through all 14 teams that qualified for the playoffs. I sorted by ST snaps and took every player that fit my criteria listed above (40% > ST snaps and <10% off/def snaps). From there I went to Spotrac and individually searched every player that fit my criteria to figure out each player's average salary from the 2020 season.

 

To recap:

• Only playoff teams
• Must be a free agent signing
• Must player more than 40% of ST snaps
• Must play less than 10% of snaps on offense or defense
• Does not include K, P or LS

 

Findings:

 

10/14 playoff teams employed players on their rosters in 2020 to play primarily special teams. The average playoff team allocated roster spots to 2 ST players signed to UFA deals.

 

$5M - Bills, Steelers and Saints

$4M - Buccaneers

$3.5M - Bears

$3M - Titans, Ravens

$2M - Seahawks

$1M - Chiefs and Football Team 

 

Conclusion:

 

Yes, the Buffalo Bills were at the upper limit when it came to playoff teams spending money on ST but they did not significantly outspend the teams around them. New Orleans and Pittsburgh spent just as much with the Super Bowl champs right behind them. They also have not wasted roster spots on ST players any more than any other playoff team.

 

Verdict:

 

This thread is a bust.

 

Dude, nice research.  Seriously, good call on this one.  I’m impressed.  Keep up the good work.  I love when guys think about a topic, do research, and place a very thoughtful well informed response.  Not that the OP was wrong as his impression was an overspend on ST, but this kind of reply places things into perspective.

 

Im glad we do our best to field a solid team on ST.  My guess and have nothing to back it up, but the Ravens HC, a guy I respect in Harbaugh came from ST.  If the results came up as we spend $11 mil., and every other playoff team avg. $3 mil, then ok., but not what you found.  Well done brother.

[Milanos Milano]

Sounds like the OP accidentally brushed his teeth with vagisil again and he’s taking the anger out on us. 

[DrPJax]

8 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

For your sake, I really hope this is parody. Otherwise, this view is clueless and disturbing. Can you count the games that swung in our favor by Bojo’s & Bass’ kicks? Roberts returns? Endzone KO’s? Kick coverage?

i’d venture we have more starters playing ‘teams’ than any other playoff team.

Are you old enough to remember Steve Tasker? Lou Piccone? Steve Christie? Marv Levy???

Do you even understand football??

Pretty sure guy is trolling for fun now when reading his posts below this. Statements get more nonsensical and doubles Down despite several pages of facts, not opinions, disproving his OP. PLUS has been on here  awhile with many posts.  No one actually thinking that way would stay here or last that long on this board where it’s hard to get away with even simple mistakes at times! 😀😂. We have been had. Lamp stuff; time to shut it down and use life’s precious time becoming more educated, not lobotomized. 

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

I am going to wrap this thread up at 10 pages with actual information from the 2020 season as it pertains to ST only players and the resources allocated to them.

 

I'll define here what I considered a ST only player...

 

A ST only player is a player that played over 40% of snaps on ST while simultaneously playing less than 10% of snaps on offense and/or defense. This does not include specialists (K, P or LS).

 

I went on PFR and went through all 14 teams that qualified for the playoffs. I sorted by ST snaps and took every player that fit my criteria listed above (40% > ST snaps and <10% off/def snaps). From there I went to Spotrac and individually searched every player that fit my criteria to figure out each player's average salary from the 2020 season.

 

To recap:

• Only playoff teams
• Must be a free agent signing
• Must play more than 40% of ST snaps
• Must play less than 10% of snaps on offense or defense
• Does not include K, P or LS

 

Findings:

 

10/14 playoff teams employed players on their rosters in 2020 to play primarily special teams. The average playoff team allocated roster spots to 2 ST players signed to UFA deals.

 

$5M - Bills, Steelers and Saints

$4M - Buccaneers

$3.5M - Bears

$3M - Titans, Ravens

$2M - Seahawks

$1M - Chiefs and Football Team 

 

Conclusion:

 

Yes, the Buffalo Bills were at the upper limit when it came to playoff teams spending money on ST but they did not significantly outspend the teams around them. New Orleans and Pittsburgh spent just as much with the Super Bowl champs right behind them. They also have not wasted roster spots on ST players any more than any other playoff team.

 

Verdict:

 

This thread is a bust.

 

awesome, excellent research. 

[machine gun kelly]

He did a lot of work on this one.

[Locomark]

I get the frustration about Taiwan. Every SB team usually has certain ingredients which include some special team star. Problem is Taiwan Jones is no star and he wastes a RB spot every week which means we often sit someone that could impact our crap running game. Can’t we find a friggin CB or WR gunner so we can dress someone that has value beyond 1 tackle a game?  The guy doesn’t even make kickoff tackles! 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Locomark said:

I get the frustration about Taiwan. Every SB team usually has certain ingredients which include some special team star. Problem is Taiwan Jones is no star and he wastes a RB spot every week which means we often sit someone that could impact our crap running game. Can’t we find a friggin CB or WR gunner so we can dress someone that has value beyond 1 tackle a game?  The guy doesn’t even make kickoff tackles! 

 

Why does it matter that it is a running back rather than a kicker or a WR? The Bills are a pass heavy team. How often have they given 3 different backs carries in the same game since McDermott has been here? I'd venture not many. 3rd running back dressed on gameday is as "bottom of the roster" as it gets in Buffalo.