WFT signs Curtis Samuel - 3 years, $34.5 million

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You take offense to an exaggeration..........then you follow with that........citing a specific example from an event 4 offseasons ago as evidence?

 

Yeah Beane is not terrible but do you think Thuney gave the SB favorite Chiefs a discount with that contract?

 

Money still talks.

 

Beane nickel and dimed the team into a tighter cap situation than a team with a QB on a rookie deal should be.

 

Done with a terrible 2018 UFA class and then a steady wave of special teams and backup player over-pays and decisions to hold onto players a year or two too long versus a year too soon.

 

Got over reliant on free agency for depth.

 

They had the fewest own-drafted and developed players of all of the playoff teams.    

 

 

 

Money still talks which is why Milano, Williams and Feliciano went and tested the market.  Sometimes it's not 100% about money.

Do you think that Mitch Morse gave us a discount with his contract that he signed 2 years ago?  Oh no, I can give an example too.

 

I wasn't taken offense, I was questioning his replies.  

That example came out just a few months ago in an article.  Are you under the impression that this is the only time someone chose another more desirable city over Buffalo?

 

You have been negative on Beane since he traded Watkins.  Then we find out last year in his own article that he was a drunk and didn't want to be in Buffalo....you still criticize Beane for that?

 

Do you think Beane has sense enough to not sign a 25-26 year old running back?  Because like you said, 26 is over the hill for RB's now.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No.  I trust the network statisticians that gave us the stat.   If you want to claim it's untrue then you are welcome to dispute their information.

 

Blaming the choice to re-tool the team the way they did for why they are up against the cap after just 4 seasons.......and without a QB on a big contract......is what you could call a "reason but not an excuse".  

 

That's when one can get into the "well if they just selected Mahomes or Watson they'd have had extra draft capital and wouldn't have needed to sign so many free agents" kinda' square-one hindsight which I don't care to do.

 

Things change fast in the NFL.......after 4 seasons and 5 offseasons........most NFL rosters are nearly completely flipped anyway.......so if they are still harmed by those 2017 and 2018 pro personnel decisions then it's not the justification that you may think it is. 

 

 

To the first bolded part, that's not what he asked.  Please provide the information so we can see it.

 

And no, most NFL rosters aren't completely flipped in 4-5 seasons/offseasons.  They have changes for sure but not completely flipped. 

[letsgoteam]

Saying that the Bills have mismanaged their CAP, I don't think that's completely fair. The NFL lowered the salary cap because of COVID. Beane even said himself, he would have made some moves differently if he knew the cap would go down. If the CAP had stayed the same or went over 200 Million, that would have been at least 16 million more to work with. Add in the fact the money the Bills saved by cutting QJ and JB (That could have been done still even if the CAP did go down). I wont try to speculate on what the cost of signing anyone would have been for resigning or FAs if the CAP wasn't lowered.

 

Anyways, if you consider the 16 million that was dropped and those two releases, along with the CAP rollover the Bills had, then they would have been in a pretty good spot IMO.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

12 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

They still have no real QB. And don't say Fitz.

 

Fitz.

[Maynard]

10 hours ago, stevewin said:

Every time I see a WFT in a post title I first read it as WTF - and wonder what the incredulitity is about

Same here!! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Can you cite the homegrown talent numbers for me please? I’ve seen you reference it numerous times but I’ve never actually seen the numbers.

 

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

No.  I trust the network statisticians that gave us the stat.   If you want to claim it's untrue then you are welcome to dispute their information.

 

@BADOLBILZ, if you're going to state that the other playoff teams have more "homegrown talent", seems like a reasonable ask to identify the source. If it's "network statisticians" responsible for it, which one?      

 

If nothing else, I'm curious as to how "homegrown talent" is being defined.   A statement like that can't be discussed well when we don't even know what it means.  Is it only players we draft?  Players we initially sign as UDFA?  Does a young player who is signed as an UDFA like Boettger and traded for the summer of his rookie year before he's played a down in the NFL count?  How about a guy like McKenzie, who was waived after his rookie season and who has clearly developed a ton since he's been in Buffalo?

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

@BADOLBILZ, if you're going to state that the other playoff teams have more "homegrown talent", seems like a reasonable ask to identify the source. If it's "network statisticians" responsible for it, which one?      

 

If nothing else, I'm curious as to how "homegrown talent" is being defined.   A statement like that can't be discussed well when we don't even know what it means.  Is it only players we draft?  Players we initially sign as UDFA?  Does a young player who is signed as an UDFA like Boettger and traded for the summer of his rookie year before he's played a down in the NFL count?  How about a guy like McKenzie, who was waived after his rookie season and who has clearly developed a ton since he's been in Buffalo?

 

 

 

 

Home grown = drafted or UDFA acquisitions in their draft year.

 

Me trying to re-trace the stat provided during the playoff tv broadcasts that hundreds of thousands of Bills fans heard isn't worth my time............the stat was met with surprise by some at our game parties who think this is a very young team(it's in fact one of the oldest rosters.... look it up).

 

And we also know how true it rings and that the people who disagree with it will say it makes no difference even if I list the number for every NFL team and the Bills happened to be last.

 

After much disagreement when presented, I once spent two hours combing thru tape of games to prove that CBS provided a graphical stat early in 2015 showing that LeSean McCoy had the lowest yards per touch in the NFL among qualified players in 2014.    Found it,  posted the screen shot.  Nary a comment,  retraction,  re-consideration or apology followed.....so if you fella's want to insist that it's false......complain your little chili pepper hearts out......I promise you I don't give a single *****.

 

When McBeane came in they chose to clear the decks of the prior regimes draft picks............then they have traded up many times within drafts, limiting the amount of incoming draft picks..........and they have moved on from draft picks that performed promisingly,  notably Wyatt Teller, to save room for well paid veteran reserves with short futures.........and they have heavily backfilled the roster with free agents.......most notably veteran special teamers.

 

The paragraph above is a formula for not having a lot of homegrown talent on your active roster.   It's not a big deal if you are developing your own replacements for players who hit free agency.   Thus far, that hasn't been a strong suit.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

Home grown = drafted or UDFA acquisitions in their draft year.

 

So would Boettger count or no?  McKenzie?  Not disputing, just trying to understand...and is it counting the starters, or the entire roster?

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

Me trying to re-trace the stat provided during the playoff tv broadcasts that hundreds of thousands of Bills fans heard isn't worth my time............the stat was met with surprise by some at our game parties who think this is a very young team(it's in fact one of the oldest rosters.... look it up).

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say "I heard it on the broadcast during the (whateveritwas) game and that's the only source I have"

 

I don't think it's reasonable to bring up a stat and then say "it isn't worth my time to give you a source" and imply that someone is claiming it's untrue, when as far as I can tell they're (reasonably) asking for a source.

 

I'm not disputing it myself, I'm just interested in understanding what it means.

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

And we also know how true it rings

 

I don't know how true anything rings until I understand what the criteria are and understand it. 

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

so if you fella's want to insist that it's false......

 

There you go again.  Why do this?  Who has 'insisted that it's false"?  It's rather a bad faith argument tactic to allege people have said something they haven't, don't you think?  At best, it lowers the quality of the discussion, assuming discussion is what you're here for.

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

When McBeane came in they chose to clear the decks of the prior regimes draft picks............

 

Very true, which is why I'm not disputing it...I find it reasonable...in addition to clearing the decks, Bills before McDermott and Beane were also IIRC at the bottom of the league for keeping their own drafted talent IIRC, I seem to recall Tim Graham doing an article about this in TBN as an indictment of Whaley.

But I do want to understand what the criteria are so I can better understand what it means.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Money still talks which is why Milano, Williams and Feliciano went and tested the market.  Sometimes it's not 100% about money.

Do you think that Mitch Morse gave us a discount with his contract that he signed 2 years ago?  Oh no, I can give an example too.

 

I wasn't taken offense, I was questioning his replies.  

That example came out just a few months ago in an article.  Are you under the impression that this is the only time someone chose another more desirable city over Buffalo?

 

You have been negative on Beane since he traded Watkins.  Then we find out last year in his own article that he was a drunk and didn't want to be in Buffalo....you still criticize Beane for that?

 

Do you think Beane has sense enough to not sign a 25-26 year old running back?  Because like you said, 26 is over the hill for RB's now.

 

 

I have not been negative on Beane.    I've been objective.   I literally gave a thumbs up to every one of his first round picks which is something I've never been able to do with any previous Bills GM.   I have given positive feedback on many, many moves.   But the focus around here is centered on the negative and thusly that's what ends up driving discussion.   And there have definitely been bad decisions which I have been critical of.   Those are what you recall.    Often I cite that you don't need to make good decisions all the time to be good.......so bad ones aren't necessarily mortal wounds.   But still, any time I criticize a move I'm called a hater.

 

To illustrate.....I often bring up my push for the Bills to draft Aaron Donald here on TSW........because I only actually start a new thread about once per year.    I think I got like 5 responses in that entire thread.   If I posted a blank face emoji in response to a Beane move I'd get more responses than that.  

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I have not been negative on Beane.    I've been objective.   I literally gave a thumbs up to every one of his first round picks which is something I've never been able to do with any previous Bills GM.   I have given positive feedback on many, many moves.   But the focus around here is centered on the negative and thusly that's what ends up driving discussion.   And there have definitely been bad decisions which I have been critical of.   Those are what you recall.    Often I cite that you don't need to make good decisions all the time to be good.......so bad ones aren't necessarily mortal wounds.   But still, any time I criticize a move I'm called a hater.

 

To illustrate.....I often bring up my push for the Bills to draft Aaron Donald here on TSW........because I only actually start a new thread about once per year.    I think I got like 5 responses in that entire thread.   If I posted a blank face emoji in response to a Beane move I'd get more responses than that.  

 

It's because you argue more of your negative points like you can't be possibly wrong.

[JGMcD2]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Me trying to re-trace the stat provided during the playoff tv broadcasts that hundreds of thousands of Bills fans heard isn't worth my time............the stat was met with surprise by some at our game parties who think this is a very young team(it's in fact one of the oldest rosters.... look it up).

 

And we also know how true it rings and that the people who disagree with it will say it makes no difference even if I list the number for every NFL team and the Bills happened to be last.

I didn’t hear it... that’s why I am asking for where it came from. When I initially asked for you to cite it... I had no idea of it was your own individual research, if it came from an article, a TV broadcast, a podcast, a radio show or from a leaked source inside the NFL. Why was it so unreasonable for me to ask about where it came from... when you had provided zero indication as to where you got it from? 
 

I’m not looking to disagree... I’m sitting here listening to your points and trying to put everything together... without seeing the information how can I make any reasonable conclusions... right or wrong? It only helps you to provide me with the information if it’s reasonably available... all you had to say was that you heard it on the broadcast... not accuse me of being unreasonable and calling you a liar... neither of which I did. 

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Found it,  posted the screen shot.  Nary a comment,  retraction,  re-consideration or apology followed.....so if you fella's want to insist that it's false......complain your little chili pepper hearts out......I promise you I don't give a single *****.

Again... where did I ever insist anything other than the fact that I wanted you to cite the source? So because I want to see information for myself to better understand what we’re discussing... I’m claiming that your statement is false? 
 

I better never ask a car salesman for information on a vehicle I’m purchasing... or a realtor for information on the home I’m purchasing... shoot me if I read a bill proposed by politicians from cover to cover as opposed to just believing them outright that it’s going to benefit me... God forbid I want to see information to form my own opinion. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Chuck Schick]

13 hours ago, BillsCuse said:

I don't understand some of the obsession with Samuel on this board.  Yes he he has speed and is good, but still is just an average receiver.  Not worth what "The Football Team" paid - especially in our cap situation

This guy has Antwaan Randle-El (Who coincidentally also went to WASH as a FA) written all over him.  He’s leaving a situation with creative coaches and a good supporting cast..doesn’t usually translate when you change teams.