Gunner's 2021 FINAL Mock Draft on PAGE 21

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

You mean give a up 3rd.

 

I'd seriously consider it.

 

 

"Give up," when applied to a trade, refers to everything you have to surrender to get what you're trading for. If you trade a 1st and a 3rd for a higher first, you're giving up the first and the third.

 

Which they won't do this year. Too many needs and too little cap money to solve many needs by FA.

 

It always cracks me up when people try to spin a trade as if it's two separate trades, like, "See, what we'll do is we'll trade first rounders."

 

"Oh, well, that's terrific. we'll be thrilled to do that."

 

"Yeah, but wait, this is actually two trades. The first part of the trade is the swap. But then as a second trade, we'll give you nothing, and you will give us a third. So when it comes to the phrase 'give up,' we'll only be giving up a 3rd." 

 

"Um, what? You mean you don't want to give us the lower 1st?"

 

"No, we'll want the lower 1st and the 3rd."

 

"OK, we are willing to give up a 1st and a 3rd."

 

"No, we want to do two separate trades, a swap of the 1sts and then a separate trade ... the 3rd rounder for nothing."

 

"Um, what the frack are you talking about?"

 

That has no basis in reality, or any form of linguistics . The trade you're suggesting is that one side gives up a higher 1st and the other side gives up a lower 1st and a 3rd. Pretending otherwise is spin, and frankly it's ineffective spin. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Cause he is that good lol

So was the running backs for the ravens and the chiefs......and they fell to the second round

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Give up," when applied to a trade, refers to everything you have to surrender to get what you're trading for. If you trade a 1st and a 3rd for a higher first, you're giving up the first and the third.

 

Which they won't do this year. Too many needs and too little cap money to solve many needs by FA.

 

It always cracks me up when people try to spin a trade as if it's two separate trades, like, "See, what we'll do is we'll trade first rounders."

 

"Oh, well, that's terrific. we'll be thrilled to do that."

 

"Yeah, but wait, this is actually two trades. The first part of the trade is the swap. But then as a second trade, we'll give you nothing, and you will give us a third. So when it comes to the phrase 'give up,' we'll only be giving up a 3rd." 

 

"Um, what? You mean you don't want to give us the lower 1st?"

 

"No, we'll want the lower 1st and the 3rd."

 

"OK, we are willing to give up a 1st and a 3rd."

 

"No, we want to do two separate trades, a swap of the 1sts and then a separate trade ... the 3rd rounder for nothing."

 

"Um, what the frack are you talking about?"

 

That has no basis in reality, or any form of linguistics . The trade you're suggesting is that one side gives up a higher 1st and the other side gives up a lower 1st and a 3rd. Pretending otherwise is spin, and frankly it's ineffective spin. 

I tried to read what you wrote here but I couldn’t make heads or tails of it.

 

Let’s play the historic game. How many first round picks did the Bills give up for Sammy Watkins?

[PrimeTime101]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So was the running backs for the ravens and the chiefs......and they fell to the second round

2015 was the last time no RB was taken in round 1.

 

Different year different needs  This year there are 2-3 teams where RB is a major need early

 

you can not compare one year to the next 

 

to add to this..

 

Different year different talent sets.

Edited February 22, 2021 by PrimeTime101

[Motorin']

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Morning all..... I spent a couple of hours on this last night so here is my first mock draft of 2021. For those new to the board or unfamiliar I tend to do one pre-free agency, one post and then one in the 48 hours before the first team goes on the clock. When I did my first of the three last season people were interested in reading a round 2 so this year I have made this first mock a two round, no trade, mock.  

 

Let's hear your thoughts!

 

ROUND ONE

 

1 Jacksonville Jaguars – Trevor Lawrence, Quarterback, Clemson

Let’s not waste any time here. The best Quarterback prospect to come out since at least Andrew Luck to a team who have needed a Quarterback forever.

 

2 New York Jets – Zach Wilson, Quarterback, BYU

The Jets have options. They could try and ride Sam Darnold and build around him. But for now I am going to lean toward them being enthralled by the potential of Zach Wilson who isn’t the biggest but had a great season with BYU and has rocketed up draft boards.

 

3 Miami Dolphins – Ja’Marr Chase, Wide Receiver, LSU

The Dolphins say they are sticking with Tua. If that’s the case they need guys who can separate because he definitely looks scared to throw into tight windows at this stage. Ja’Marr Chase remains the best receiver in the draft for my money, even though he opted out in 2020.

 

4 Atlanta Falcons – Justin Fields, Quarterback, Ohio State

The Falcons are going to start Matt Ryan again in 2021 but I am all but certain it is his final year with the team. I think Fields has been a bit overlooked by some because he appears a bit more mechanical than the other three QBs at the top of this draft but he is a perfect fit in Arthur Smith’s scheme.

 

5 Cincinnati Bengals – Penei Sewell, Offensive Tackle, Oregon

The Bengals have to protect Joe Burrow. It’s a simple as that. The Quarterback can play but he has already suffered an ACL injury and if they want to benefit from his talent they must stop him getting hit. I don’t love Sewell’s ceiling as much as some but he has a super high floor. Very safe pick.

 

6 Philadelphia Eagles – Jaylen Waddle, Wide Receiver, Alabama

The Eagles just need more talent. They have had a couple of goes at adding a speed receiver but they overdrafted Jaelon Reagor and they have now released the ageing Desean Jackson. Jaylen Waddle has a bit of Tyreek Hill about him and that could appeal to Nick Sirianni as he rebuilds this roster.

 

7 Detroit Lions – Devonta Smith, Wide Receiver, Alabama

The run on receivers continues with the Lions taking Devonta Smith the Heisman Trophy winner. Kenny Golladay, Marvin Jones and Danny Amendola are all free agents. Golladay has struggled to stay healthy and the other two are the wrong side of 30.

 

8 Carolina Panthers – Patrick Surtain, Cornerback, Alabama

As I sit here today I think the Panthers are the most likely team to win the Deshaun Watson sweepstakes. They were in on Stafford and their interest in Watson has been widely reported. So I pass on a Quarterback and address their desperate need at corner with Patrick Surtain Jr who is my #2 overall player in the class.

 

9 Denver Broncos – Caleb Farley, Cornerback, Virginia Tech

The Broncos also have a need at corner having cut AJ Bouye after one rather unspectacular year at Mile High. Farley is pretty much the corner Vic Fangio would create in a lab. Perfect scheme fit.

 

10 Dallas Cowboys – Rashawn Slater, Offensive Tackle, Northwestern

If either of the top two corners were here that would be where the Cowboys go but with them gone they need to address their faltering offensive line. Once the strength of this team it was a weakness in 2019 and a liability at times in 2020 as age and injuries bit. Slater could start off at guard before eventually becoming Tyron Smith’s successor at left tackle.

 

11 New York Giants – Kyle Pitts, Tight End, Florida

The Giants need offensive weapons but the top three receivers are all off the board. Kyle Pitts remains though and is a do it all tight end who can be a “big slot” receiver too. Evan Engram is slated to play on a 5th year option in 2021 but there is no sign yet of a long term deal for a guy who had 6 touchdowns as a rookie and has 7 in three seasons since then.

 

12 San Francisco 49ers – Trey Lance, Quarterback, North Dakota State

If Lance lasts past Carolina I expect teams to call and try to move up but this is a no trade draft so he falls here to the 49ers. San Francisco were in on Stafford, have interest in Watson and seem to have lost faith in Jimmy G. In this scenario Garoppolo starts 2021 as the incumbent but Lance takes over mid-season as the future and a creative mind like Kyle Shanahan would find ways to make him productive.

 

13 Los Angeles Chargers – Alijah Vera-Tucker, Offensive Tackle, USC

Alijah Vera-Tucker was a possible late first rounder based on his 2019 tape as a guard. He solidified himself as a first round pick by looking equally dominant at left tackle in 2020. Arm length measurements might affect how high he goes but for a team like the Chargers who have needs right across the line and could start him at tackle with the option to slide inside he makes sense.

 

14 Minnesota Vikings – Christian Barmore, Defensive Tackle, Alabama

Barmore is a polarising prospect. Some love him, some question his consistency. The Vikings have needs at both defensive tackle spots and he is an impact player who would start day 1.

 

15 New England Patriots – Micah Parsons, Linebacker, Michigan

Micah Parsons is a top 10 talent as a linebacker who can play the run, rush the passer, hits like a truck and looks like a leader on the field. He is only average in coverage and there are off the field questions but the Patriots are so talent deficient I’m not sure they can afford to pass a guy like this up at #15.

 

16 Arizona Cardinals – Jaycee Horn, Cornerback, South Carolina

Patrick Peterson is a free agent and doesn’t look like he will be back in Arizona. Jaycee Horn isn’t a fit in every scheme but I think he does work for what Vance Joseph wants in his backfield.

 

17 Las Vegas Raiders – Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Linebacker, Norte Dame

The Raiders need defensive playmakers. Enter one of my favourite players in the whole draft – JOK. I think he can play as a will linebacker in base and as a big nickel defender in sub. He has 7 sacks, an interception and 5 forced fumbles in two years at Norte Dame. Just a guy with a knack for making plays.

 

18 Miami Dolphins – Gregory Rousseau, Edge Rusher, Miami

The Dolphins could take a running back off the board here but Gregory Rousseau from their own back yard makes a lot of sense. He can play off the edge in Brian Flores’s hybrid 3-4 or he can play as a down lineman in the role Emmanuel Ogbah filled in 2020.

 

19 Washington Football Team – Christian Darrisaw, Offensive Tackle, Virginia Tech

Washington made the playoffs as a below .500 football team but if they can sort out the Quarterback position they are not that many other pieces away. One piece they do need though is a left tackle to fill the void left by Trent Williams. Darrisaw is not the finished article but his potential is sky high.

 

20 Chicago Bears – Kadarius Toney, Wide Receiver, Florida

The Bears need almost everything. First and foremost they need to work out who their Quarterback is but then they need to give that guy people to throw to. Allen Robinson is a free agent and will likely move on. Toney is not a like for like replacement but he is matchup nightmare who is expected to run in 4.4s at his pro day and is the sort of offensive chess piece Matt Nagy needs to kick start a moribund offense.

 

21 Indianapolis Colts – Kwity Paye, Edge Rusher, Michigan

Colts need wide receiver help, corner help, a left tackle and to pray Carson Wentz can be salvaged. But they also have a question as to whether or not to re-sign 32 year old Justin Houston. If they don’t then edge becomes a serious need. Kwity Paye is a hand in the dirt 4-3 pass rusher that fits the system.

 

22 Tennessee Titans – Jaelen Phillips, Edge Rusher, Miami

And here comes the run on edge guys. The Titan have a desperate need for pass rush. Vic Beasley and Jadaveon Clowney failed to provide it and Vrabel has talked about needing length and range for his scheme. Phillips is not without questions – 1 year of production after flaming out at UCLA and concussion issues – but he has an intriguing skillset and fills a huge need.

 

23 New York Jets – Travis Etienne – Running Back, Clemson

The Jets have a lot of needs too but when you hire Mike LaFleur as offensive coordinator and ask him to bring the Shanahan offense with him then you better have a back with speed for the outside stretch zone runs. Etienne is a home run threat every time he touches the ball.

 

24 Pittsburgh Steelers – Zaven Collins, Linebacker, Tulsa

What is Zaven Collins best position fit in the NFL? It is question to which I have heard multiple answers. I think personally it is outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. At 6’4, 260lbs he is a very similar athletic profile to Bud Dupree who looks set to leave in free agency. Will need to work on his rush technique some but is a better coverage player than Dupree.

 

25 Jacksonville Jaguars – Daviyon Nixon, Defensive Tackle, Iowa

Jags fans will likely pull their hair out at the thought of yet another premium pick on the defensive line but it remains a need. Urban Meyer wants to run a 3-4 base and while Chaisson and Allen fit the profile as edge rushers from the outside the 3 man front is a huge question mark. Nixon is a plug and play guy.

 

26 Cleveland Browns – Nick Bolton, Linebacker, Missouri

The Browns pick should be best player available in the back 7 of the defense. They could co Trevon Moehrig the safety out of TCU but a do it all linebacker who has some leadership ability is an even bigger need. Bolton would be a huge upgrade.

 

27 Baltimore Ravens – Landon Dickerson, Center, Alabama

So for a moment cast your mind back to the Divisional Playoff Round. Yes, it was windy in Buffalo but the Ravens could not snap the ball for the life of them – and it ended up causing the injury that ended Lamar’s game. They had issues at center all season. Landon Dickerson would solidify that position immediately.

 

28 New Orleans Saints – Trevon Moehrig, Safety, TCU

Finally Moehrig goes off the board. The Saints have issues in a lot of spots and not much salary cap space to fix them. But they only have two safeties under contract for 2021 as it stands and one of them is 33 year old Malcolm Jenkins. Moehrig replaces Marcus Williams who walks as a free agent.

 

29 Green Bay Packers – Levi Onwuzurike, Defensive Tackle, Washington

It won’t impress Green Bay fans or Aaron Rodgers but I am going defense here. The Packers have to get more disruptive up front. They have decent edge play but their down linemen, Kenny Clark apart, are a weakness. Onwuzurike had a terrific week in Mobile at the Senior Bowl and now has a chance to sneak into round 1.

 

30 Buffalo Bills – Greg Newsome, Cornerback, Northwestern

Talking of guys sneaking into round 1 Greg Newsome out of Northwestern is one of my biggest draft crushes. He is raw but his skillset is the dream combination of size, speed, athleticism and recognition skills is what NFL defensive coordinators dream of. He has the potential to form the best corner combination in the NFL with Tre White on the other side.

 

31 Kansas City Chiefs – Alex Leatherwood, Offensive Tackle, Alabama

I have never been a big Eric Fisher guy and while Mitchell Schwartz on the other side has been an elite right tackle both are now injured, ageing and potential cap casualties. You saw what a lack of good tackle play did to their offense in the Superbowl. Leatherwood played left tackle at Alabama and the Chiefs could try him there even though I think he likely projects better on the other side in the NFL.

 

32 Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Joseph Ossai, Edge Rusher, Texas

Ossai is another high ceiling but raw player. Only really played one full season as an edge rusher and at this stage needs to play in a scheme where he can rush from a 2 point stance. High ceiling though. Todd Bowles’s scheme needs edge rush to be effective and with Shaq Barrett a free agent and Pierre-Paul now 32 years old the Buccs need to look to the future at the edge position.

 

- - - - - - - - - 

 

ROUND TWO

 

33 Jacksonville Jaguars – Jalen Mayfield, Offensive Tackle, Michigan

Another tackle comes off the board. Cam Robinson is a free agent and has never been more than adequate at left tackle in any event. I’m not the biggest Jalen Mayfield guy but the word is that NFL teams like him. If the Jaguars believe he can transition across to the left side he could be the pick.

 

34 New York Jets – Carlos Basham, Edge Rusher, Wake Forest

I think this is a little early for Basham but he does fit the sort of bigger bodied, versatile defensive lineman that Robert Saleh likes and had in San Francisco. I actually see him as a more effective run defender than pass rusher at the NFL level but he does have the capacity to rush the passer from the interior.

 

35 Atlanta Falcons – Azeez Ojulari, Edge Rusher, Georgia

The Falcons have needs everywhere. Their pass rush has been a major problem and Ojulari can stay in state and slot nicely into that Dean Pees scheme as an outside linebacker.

 

36 Miami Dolphins – Najee Harris, Running Back, Alabama

So the Dolphins could have gone Harris at #18 but he lasts all the way to #36 and immediately becomes the lead dog in their backfield.

 

37 Philadelphia Eagles – Jabril Cox, Linebacker, LSU

The Eagles linebacking was atrocious in 2020. Cox is a versatile guy who can play all 3 spots at the second level.

 

38 Cincinnati Bengals – Tyson Campbell, Cornerback, Georgia

Having addressed pass protection at #5 it has to be best defensive player available here at #38. William Jackson, their best corner, is a free agent so they could look at someone like Campbell to come in and fill that spot.

 

39 Carolina Panthers – Liam Eichenberg, Offensive Tackle, Notre Dame

Both of Carolina’s offensive tackles are free agents. Luckily it is a pretty good tackle class and Eichenberg is a pro-ready option to fill either spot.

 

40 Denver Broncos – Jay Tufele, Defensive Tackle, USC

Jurrell Casey came over from Tennessee last year but then suffered a serious injury and now could well be a cap casualty. Even if he isn’t they need help on the defensive line. Tufele sat out 2020 but notched 10 sacks as an interior rusher over the previous two seasons.

 

41 Detroit Lions – Wyatt Davis, Guard, Ohio State

Davis suffered an ankle injury late in the year that could affect his stock but he is a really solid interior offensive line prospect. Dan Campbell feels like a build up front type of guy and this would be a good pick.

 

42 New York Giants – Terrace Marshall, Wide Receiver, LSU

Having missed out on the three receivers at the top of the draft the Giants have to strike for one in round 2. They need a number 1 outside type and Terrace Marshall, while needing refinement, fits that bill the best of the guys left.

 

43 San Francisco 49ers – Kelvin Joseph, Cornerback, Kentucky

Basically after Quarterback there is no more pressing need for the 49ers than corner. All of their corners are free agents. Joseph’s college career did not go to plan after he transferred out of LSU but he is flying up draft boards as people start to dig into his tape. He led the SEC in interceptions in 2020.

 

44 Dallas Cowboys – Asante Samuel Jr, Cornerback, Florida State

So we had the edge run, then the offensive tackle run and now it is the corners flying off the board. Samuel is fast but isn’t the best tackler in the world and can get grabby in coverage. That said he fills a major need in Dallas.

 

45 Jacksonville Jaguars – Pat Freiermuth, Tight End, Penn State

The Jaguars feel like they have been trying to find a tight end forever. Josh Oliver who they took two years ago has been permanently hurt. Darrell Bevell’s scheme requires a guy who can catch and block and while Freiermuth’s blocking needs work I see potential for development there.

 

46 New England Patriots – Elijah Moore, Wide Receiver, Ole Miss

If the 49ers did land a QB in round 1 I’d expect New England to offer this pick to bring Jimmy G back to Boston. But if that doesn’t happen the Patriots need speed. New England might be the slowest team in the NFL and in 2021 you can be as fundamentally sound and as scheme flexible as you like and still lose to speed. Moore could play as a slot in this system which has always featured a slot guy and be a game breaker from that position.

 

47 Los Angeles Chargers – Creed Humphrey, Center, Oklahoma

The Chargers double dip on the offensive line to make sure that they are protecting the franchise in Justin Herbert who got hit too much as a rookie and towards the end of the season did display a few bad habits with his footwork that was a result of the rush. Mike Pouncey retired at center so a replacement is needed either through free agency or, in this case, the draft. 

 

48 Las Vegas Raiders – Jevon Holland, Safety, Oregon

The Raiders have spent multiple high picks on trying to sort their issues in the secondary without getting it done. Bringing Gus Bradley in a defensive coordinator might help, I think he is an upgrade on Paul Gunther and Jevon Holland could plays the “Earl Thomas role” in this scheme.

 

49 Arizona Cardinals – Chaz Surratt, Linebacker, North Carolina

The Cardinals have multiple free agents at the linebacker spot. Wouldn’t hurt to add an injection of youth into that unit and Surratt plays an aggressive pursuit style and attacks the line of scrimmage in a way that I think Vance Joseph will admire.

 

50 Miami Dolphins – Trey Smith, Guard, Tennessee

The Dolphins oline did take a step forward last year and Solomon Kindley was one of the steals of the draft. But the other guard spot was manned by former Giants bust Ereck Flowers. Smith helps keep the pocket clean for Tua.

 

51 Washington Football Team – Rashod Bateman, Wide Receiver, Minnesota

Other than Quarterback the big needs for the Football Team are left tackle, which they resolved in round 1, corner and wide receiver. I have them taking Bateman here who is a tough, physical, route runner who goes across the middle and compliments Terry McLaurin perfectly.

 

52 Chicago Bears – Joe Tryon, Edge Rusher, Washington

How is Ryan Pace still in a job? Not content with passing on Mahomes and Watson for Trubisky he last year gave Robert Quinn, age 30, a 5 year $70m contract. That was predictable disaster in 13 starts he had 2 sacks. They can’t get out of that deal until after 2021 but drafting Joe Tryon this year to get him in house and ready to takeover would be smart. So Pace won’t do it, obviously.

 

53 Tennessee Titans – Rondale Moore, Wide Receiver, Purdue

Corey Davis is a free agent, Adam Humphries’s career is in doubt and their receiving Tight End Jonnu Smith is also a free agent. The Titans need to add weapons to AJ Brown. Moore’s production the last two years has not matched his amazing freshman season, but he is a viable option in the 2nd round.

 

54 Indianapolis Colts – Aaron Robinson, Cornerback, UCF

The Colts have needed corner help for a while. Xavier Rhodes had something of a bounce back as a free agent after his run in Minnesota ended poorly, but that was a 1 year deal. Robinson is a guy who could really excel in the slot, but has a chance to be a success on the boundary.

 

55 Pittsburgh Steelers – James Hudson, Offensive Tackle, Cincinnati

The Steelers’ oline has been a real strength over the past 5 years. However, it has started to creak. To make matters worse Pouncey has retired and left tackle Alejandro Villanueva is a free agent. They need to start to getting younger and Hudson should help kick start their moribund run game.

 

56 Seattle Seahawks – Ifeatu Melifonwu, Cornerback, Syracuse

I have concerns about Melifonwu but this starts to be range where he could come off the board. Both of the Seahawks’ starting corners are free agents and Melifonwu fits that long, athletic profile that Seattle has traditionally looked for.

 

57 Los Angeles Rams – Baron Browning, Linebacker, Ohio State

The Rams roster really doesn’t have too many holes for a team that never has a first round pick. However, while Micah Kiser has been a nice story at linebacker he is a below average starter and it is even worse next to him at the other inside spot. Browning is an attempt to upgrade.

 

58 Baltimore Ravens – Jayson Oweh, Edge Rusher, Penn State

Matt Judon and Yannick Ngakoue are free agents as are their two backups. Oweh is a nice scheme fits as an outside rush linebacker in the Ravens’ 3-4.

 

59 Cleveland Browns – Patrick Jones, Edge Rusher, Pittsburgh

Cleveland has to keep stacking talented defenders to improve on that side of the ball. Secondary is more of a need here but Jones is the value and would replace the departing Olivier Vernon.

 

60 New Orleans Saints – Mac Jones, Quarterback, Alabama

I really have no feeling on what the Saints will do at Quarterback, but they are tight to the cap and only have Tysom Hill (who is not a long term answer) on the roster. Jones is not unlike Drew Brees in style. Pocket Quarterback, fiercely competitive and a good not great arm. Maybe Payton thinks he can develop that?

 

61 Buffalo Bills – Dillon Radunz, Offensive Tackle, North Dakota State

This is great value for Radunz and the Bills have two key free agents on the offensive line. He started at left tackle in college but I think he projects better as a right tackle or even at guard in the NFL. Nasty run blocker, which is a definite need.

 

62 Green Bay Packers – Teven Jenkins, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma State

This is a really good tackle class and another one goes here to Green Bay who released right tackle Rick Wagner on Friday after one season with the team. Jenkins slides right into that spot.

 

63 Kansas City Chiefs – D’Wayne Eskridge, Wide Receiver, Western Michigan

Brett Veach has been honest about his draft priorities while he has Mahomes – weapons and protection. I have them addressing the latter in round 1 so here I give them Eskridge. Watkins and Robinson are free agents so enter a small, skillfull, gadget player who runs a 4.33.

 

64 Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Javonte Williams, Running Back, North Carolina

Tampa has a lot of free agents to bring back and not much cap room to do it so I find it unlikely that Leonard Fournette or Lesean McCoy returns. While they would still have Ronald Jones he is also a free agent after 2021 so time to restock the running back room.

 

If Beane can find a partner, I could see trading back for a 2nd and 3rd, and Newsome being one of the two 2nd rounders. 

[stinky finger]

28 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Give up," when applied to a trade, refers to everything you have to surrender to get what you're trading for. If you trade a 1st and a 3rd for a higher first, you're giving up the first and the third.

 

Which they won't do this year. Too many needs and too little cap money to solve many needs by FA.

 

It always cracks me up when people try to spin a trade as if it's two separate trades, like, "See, what we'll do is we'll trade first rounders."

 

"Oh, well, that's terrific. we'll be thrilled to do that."

 

"Yeah, but wait, this is actually two trades. The first part of the trade is the swap. But then as a second trade, we'll give you nothing, and you will give us a third. So when it comes to the phrase 'give up,' we'll only be giving up a 3rd." 

 

"Um, what? You mean you don't want to give us the lower 1st?"

 

"No, we'll want the lower 1st and the 3rd."

 

"OK, we are willing to give up a 1st and a 3rd."

 

"No, we want to do two separate trades, a swap of the 1sts and then a separate trade ... the 3rd rounder for nothing."

 

"Um, what the frack are you talking about?"

 

That has no basis in reality, or any form of linguistics . The trade you're suggesting is that one side gives up a higher 1st and the other side gives up a lower 1st and a 3rd. Pretending otherwise is spin, and frankly it's ineffective spin. 

 

I get it, I get it.

 

sheesh - you seem frustrated 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but we're trying to go from good team to championship team. We have enough contributors. Plus this year it's more difficult than ever to scout mid to late round players. You're betting on guys with limited college tape, no combine, limited player visits and pro days. Versus trading up for an x factor like Toney or Owusu-Koramoah where you know they can make game changing plays on day one. No amount of extra contributors would have beaten the Chiefs last year.

 

 

No, we need - desperately - to bring in four or five guys in the draft who are real contributors, this year. You don't trade away your third in a year like this.

 

Your fifth or sixth or seventh, maybe. But not your third.

 

A contributor is a guy who contributes, who adds something. If we'd had another contributor to rush the passer, or an extra contributor who was a CB with serious speed to allow us to play man-to-man effectively, or a few more things we could have used, that absolutely would have made us a tougher match for the Chiefs.

 

[Thurman#1]

35 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I tried to read what you wrote here but I couldn’t make heads or tails of it.

 

Let’s play the historic game. How many first round picks did the Bills give up for Sammy Watkins?

 

 

I understand. People get easily confused when they're trying to insist that a trade is actually two separate transactions, a swap and then a separate thing that they're giving away.

 

I'll be glad to teach you. First, we did not give up anything for Sammy Watkins. We picked Sammy Watkins in the draft.

 

Now, we did indeed trade up to get the 4th pick. With which we then picked Sammy. What did we give up to get the 4th pick?

 

Since "give up" is a synonym for "swap away," for "bestow," for "surrender," not to mention "cede," "yield," "hand over" and dozens more, there is only one correct answer here. Cleveland gave up the 2014 #4. And Buffalo gave up the 2014 #9 and the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115.

 

If you doubt for one instant that we gave up those three picks, all you have to do is to check whether we retained them after the trade. We did not. Because we had given them all up. Just as Cleveland gave up the 2014 #4.

 

No other picks were involved. There is only one possible correct answer here.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

23 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I get it, I get it.

 

sheesh - you seem frustrated 

 

 

 

Just precise.

 

If you get it, then fair enough. See you around the boards.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Big Blitz]

Nice job GB. 

 

God I love the off season almost as much as the actual season.  

 

Can't wait for draft day!!  

 

So nice to not have been one of those teams talking about the draft since December 5th.  Those teams have almost finished 3 months of draft talk.  

[pennstate10]

16 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Gunner, I do NOT agree with the following link (I am sold on Lawrence), but I think that Mac Jones will go in the first round. That said, if the draft were to go like yours, I would want the Bills to trade up and draft Mac in round 2. It would only be a few spots and would probably cost little. 

 

We will be in lots of trouble if Josh gets hurt. The value of qbs is HUGE these days and we could get a huge return for Mac if he played well in just a few games.

 

https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/19/former-nfl-coach-june-jones-has-mac-jones-ranked-over-trevor-lawrence/

 

Seriously?

 

this must be sarcasm, but I don't see the sarcasm font. 

 

This is truly ludacris. 

 

Bills need edge rusher, CB, probably OLB, OL.  Also a truly speedy WR would be good. 

 

and you think they should trade draft resources to go up and draft a backup QB?????

 

This is a win now team. If Allen is out they don't win the super bowl. So you maximize the team this year. Draft any position but a backup QB. It doesn't matter if you get a seconds round pick for him in 3-4 years. 

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I understand. People get easily confused when they're trying to insist that a trade is actually two separate transactions, a swap and then a separate thing that they're giving away.

 

I'll be glad to teach you. First, we did not give up anything for Sammy Watkins. We picked Sammy Watkins in the draft.

 

Now, we did indeed trade up to get the 4th pick. With which we then picked Sammy. What did we give up to get the 4th pick?

 

Since "give up" is a synonym for "swap away," for "bestow," for "surrender," not to mention "cede," "yield," "hand over" and dozens more, there is only one correct answer here. Cleveland gave up the 2014 #4. And Buffalo gave up the 2014 #9 and the 2015 #19 and the 2015 #115.

 

If you doubt for one instant that we gave up those three picks, all you have to do is to check whether we retained them after the trade. We did not. Because we had given them all up. Just as Cleveland gave up the 2014 #4.

 

No other picks were involved. There is only one possible correct answer here.

 

 

I like you. I hated when folks said it was 1 first and a fourth.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

So was the running backs for the ravens and the chiefs......and they fell to the second round

 

CEH went #32 actually... but he was the only running back in round 1 last year.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I like you. I hated when folks said it was 1 first and a fourth.

 

 

Glad we found something to agree on.

 

That "first we swapped firsts and then we gave them this," was nonsense, pretending one transaction was actually two. It was purely a move for spin, to make a trade that looked bad from instant one sound a bit better.

[Bill from NYC]

7 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

 

Seriously?

 

this must be sarcasm, but I don't see the sarcasm font. 

 

This is truly ludacris. 

 

Bills need edge rusher, CB, probably OLB, OL.  Also a truly speedy WR would be good. 

 

and you think they should trade draft resources to go up and draft a backup QB?????

 

This is a win now team. If Allen is out they don't win the super bowl. So you maximize the team this year. Draft any position but a backup QB. It doesn't matter if you get a seconds round pick for him in 3-4 years. 

Slow down Slugger!!! 😄 The suggestion was in reference to Gunner's mock draft, and Mac falling into the VERY LATE second round.

 

The Bills have a quarterback who likes to run, and is great at doing so. Running quarterbacks are taking a very large risk, but you already knew this. Or did you? If Josh ges hurt, wouldn't you want a solid backup? I don't know, maybe the coaches think that Fromm is capable. If not then yes, the Bills need a backup qb. Now, would I take one in round 1? No I would not. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Bill from NYC

[JMF2006]

15 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Slow down Slugger!!! 😄 The suggestion was in reference to Gunner's mock draft, and Mac falling into the VERY LATE second round.

 

The Bills have a quarterback who likes to run, and is great as doing so. Running quarterbacks are taking a very large risk, but you already kew this. Or did you? If Josh ges hurt, wouldn't you want a solid backup? I don't know, maybe the coaches think that Fromm is capable. If not then yes, the Bills need a backup qb. Now, would I take one in round 1? No I would not. 

 

The Bills will NOT be drafting a QB in rounds 1 ,2 ,3 or 4 they have way too many needs with a cap crunch.

 

I don't even think they go there with rounds 5 ,6 or 7.

 

Maybe an UDFA if they chose not to re-sign Matty B to get 4 for camp.

 

The Bills have saddled up their horse at QB and it's Josh

 

He has proven to be a tough and resilient competitor and short of a broken limb(God Forbidding) he is going to suit up as he did last year through 2 injuries.

Edited February 22, 2021 by JMF2006

[Bill from NYC]

11 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

The Bills have saddled up their horse at QB and it's Josh

 

He has proven to be a tough and resilient competitor and short of a broken limb(God Forbidding) he is going to suit up as he did last year through 2 injuries.

Josh is great. He is easily a top 5 QB in this league and still improving. I was thrilled the day he was drafted and have been since.

 

I am merely saying that having a good backup is a big asset to have, and very important imo.

 

Once again, maybe they think Fromm is the answer at #2, and he might be! 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Bill from NYC

[JMF2006]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Josh is great. He is easily a top 5 QB in this league and still improving. I was thrilled the day he was drafted and have been since.

 

I am merely saying that having a good backup is a big asset to have, and very important imo.

 

Once again, maybe they think Fromm is the answer at #2, and he might be! 

 

 

 

Don't count Davis Webb out of the mix.

 

He has a very similar skill set to Josh and  their physical stature is almost the same.

[eball]

As soon as I saw Gunner having the Bills draft a CB I thought to myself “how long before Bill from NYC is in this thread”.  It took two posts.  

 

Great stuff though.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, eball said:

As soon as I saw Gunner having the Bills draft a CB I thought to myself “how long before Bill from NYC is in this thread”.  It took two posts.  

 

Great stuff though.

 

The corner pick has definitely provoked debate..... I assure you it was not intended as a click bait move, although if it had of been it definitely worked! 🤣