SoCal Deek Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Bob in Mich said: Yes, there is argument there. What you are describing, the Red Mirage, was discussed at length in today’s hearing. It is a phenomena that is well known - early returns will favor republicans and when the mail in ballots are counted, the Dems will gain ground. Trump was warned to expect this to happen. He deliberately ignored the warning and begun to claim this was suspicious. It was expected Again we agree. The optics were horrible. With everything else the Dems tried to remove a sitting President from office, are you really surprised that anyone thought this was yet just another ‘trick’? You can love or hate Trump all you want, but what he endured from the establishment for four straight years was nothing short of appalling….and while there’s no way to know for sure, I’d take his Team back in the White House tomorrow morning over the current band of completely incompetent nitwits. As others have said: What a Mess! 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Why weren't the paramilitary groups armed? If they really planned to overturn the election results, wouldn't it have made sense for them to bring guns? Weapons are not needed in some coups. Research auto coup https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6zjigTxfQ4 Edited June 13, 2022 by Bob in Mich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Why weren't the paramilitary groups armed? If they really planned to overturn the election results, wouldn't it have made sense for them to bring guns? There were plenty of backpacks that were never searched and handguns may have been concealed. The mob went in and left without checks by law enforcement. So I don’t think we can assume that they weren’t armed. They chose to use tear gas, bear spray, steel clubs and other weapons. Reportedly, they had members outside of DC ready to bring in firearms if needed. DC also has severe laws regarding firearms that may have affected their decisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Andy1 said: There were plenty of backpacks that were never searched and handguns may have been concealed. The mob went in and left without checks by law enforcement. So I don’t think we can assume that they weren’t armed. They chose to use tear gas, bear spray, steel clubs and other weapons. Reportedly, they had members outside of DC ready to bring in firearms if needed. DC also has severe laws regarding firearms that may have affected their decisions. At some point the talking points get a little kooky. These guys are trying to take over the government of a nuclear super power…and they’re worried about DC’s severe fire arms laws? 😂😂😂😂😂 To quote The Big Guy: “Come On Man!” 1 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 44 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Oh pulease! I find sometimes folks can’t admit the truth because they are too far dug in for far too long. I believe your desire to maintain your position has cost you your reasoning skills. Like I have told you before, you are a nicer guy than most here but you still wear the orange robe of the cult. Trump tried to stay in power when he knew he had lost. He was trying to disenfranchise millions of Biden voters. Do you recall that conversation with Raffensperger of Georgia? How in the hell could any American justify that attempt ? That is at the core of our country. There is no equivalency to legal impeachment proceedings. Had Trump been convicted, his running mate, Pence would take over. And quit with the unjust scrutiny angle. Trump has brought scrutiny on himself Your limitation is that you don’t consider the perspective of others as a relevant factor in how they view this issue, Bob. I shared factual information from the former Attorney General of the United States, one you suggested folks listen to as a reliable source just a post earlier. You do not see any of that as being relevant as to how people view the events of 1/6, Bob, and that’s a blind spot for you. On the other hand, I do. I also understand your perspective and acknowledge your feelings about Trump, and understand you’ve completely dismissed as standard operating procedure the events to remove him from office under false pretense. Now, if the Jan 6 issue was a one and done, out of the blue event undertaken by Trump, absent rather political actions of the Dems for the prior 4 years, I’d probably be agreeing with you. Moral outrage, holy crap how can this happen, blah blah blah. In this case, it’s a suckers game. Georgia? Politics. It’s a dirty business. You know this. I know this. Why are we arguing about something we both know to be true? To be honest, it’s one reason people are largely disinterested in the story. In the end, Bob, I’m not justifying anything at all, it’s simply that my rational, reasoned analysis leads me to conclude that this is the way the game is played. Again, wish it wasn’t, but it is. I will say, also, that in spite of your attempt at mockery, I get a lot of compliments when I wear orange. Something about my personal color wheel, hybrid skin tone and that autumn somehow just works on me. Other colors on my wheel are blue, red, sea foam green, anything in the purple family, magenta and steel granite metallic if that’s still a thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 38 minutes ago, Andy1 said: There were plenty of backpacks that were never searched and handguns may have been concealed. The mob went in and left without checks by law enforcement. So I don’t think we can assume that they weren’t armed. They chose to use tear gas, bear spray, steel clubs and other weapons. Reportedly, they had members outside of DC ready to bring in firearms if needed. DC also has severe laws regarding firearms that may have affected their decisions. my back pack had water and gummi bears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Your limitation is that you don’t consider the perspective of others as a relevant factor in how they view this issue, Bob. I shared factual information from the former Attorney General of the United States, one you suggested folks listen to as a reliable source just a post earlier. You do not see any of that as being relevant as to how people view the events of 1/6, Bob, and that’s a blind spot for you. On the other hand, I do. I also understand your perspective and acknowledge your feelings about Trump, and understand you’ve completely dismissed as standard operating procedure the events to remove him from office under false pretense. Now, if the Jan 6 issue was a one and done, out of the blue event undertaken by Trump, absent rather political actions of the Dems for the prior 4 years, I’d probably be agreeing with you. Moral outrage, holy crap how can this happen, blah blah blah. In this case, it’s a suckers game. Georgia? Politics. It’s a dirty business. You know this. I know this. Why are we arguing about something we both know to be true? To be honest, it’s one reason people are largely disinterested in the story. In the end, Bob, I’m not justifying anything at all, it’s simply that my rational, reasoned analysis leads me to conclude that this is the way the game is played. Again, wish it wasn’t, but it is. I will say, also, that in spite of your attempt at mockery, I get a lot of compliments when I wear orange. Something about my personal color wheel, hybrid skin tone and that autumn somehow just works on me. Other colors on my wheel are blue, red, sea foam green, anything in the purple family, magenta and steel granite metallic if that’s still a thing. Lenny, seriously? False pretense? He committed the acts that he was accused of at the impeachments and an unbiased jury would have had to convict him in both impeachment trials. And don’t claim Bill Barr as anything special. He was a complete Trump toadie his whole term but when things began to turn illegal he wisely bailed out. Barr is no one I trust. Having him under oath for these hearings made him significantly more trustworthy though Also, you seem to be all over the place when talking ‘political dirty tricks’. On one hand the pee tape talk (arguably a dirty trick) crippled Trump and that was unacceptably unfair in your eyes. On the other hand, if Trump can finagle 12,000 votes out of thin air, well that is just the game and how it is played. I would hope for more ethics all around here too but you are inconsistent here. There are political dirty tricks and there are acts way beyond a trick to the point it becomes a crime. Trump’s attempts to retain the office started out in the legal arena but when successive attempts failed he took things into the criminal realm, imo. To claim he was setting things up for the next election cycle has to be called ludicrous. Sorry Len but your blind spots have eclipsed mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 21 minutes ago, Beach said: my back pack had water and gummi bears. That's a lot of water and gummies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: That's a lot of water and gummies gummi bears. 3 of us there. all day event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 Another big part of all this is the profiting off of ignorance. $250 million raised to "fight the fraud: was actully just passed around. Such a big part of GOP politics today in so many ways. Pump up the ignorant with total lies, and get them to send money to "fight for them." 1 minute ago, Beach said: gummi bears. 3 of us there. all day event. Ya, ok. 1 hour ago, Tenhigh said: Maybe if you drop the cult talk you'll get a more reasonable response, Bob. Just a thought. Ginni Thomas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 29 minutes ago, Beach said: my back pack had water and gummi bears. Wait…gunny bears? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: At some point the talking points get a little kooky. These guys are trying to take over the government of a nuclear super power…and they’re worried about DC’s severe fire arms laws? 😂😂😂😂😂 To quote The Big Guy: “Come On Man!” It's amazing, no? No weapons were brought because they wanted to perform an "auto-coup." Or they were worried about gun laws...but not laws about overthrowing a government. And they were so intent on overthrowing the government and stopping the certification process...that they didn't see it to completion and ran home before suppertime. IThe gyrations that need to be undertaken to continue with the "insurrection" fantasy... Edited June 14, 2022 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 What a mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) Why would peaceful protesters need bear spray, tear gas, steel clubs, zip tie handcuffs? Just wondering. That’s not what I would normally pack when I go to see DC. Edited June 14, 2022 by Andy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 33 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Lenny, seriously? False pretense? He committed the acts that he was accused of at the impeachments and an unbiased jury would have had to convict him in both impeachment trials. And don’t claim Bill Barr as anything special. He was a complete Trump toadie his whole term but when things began to turn illegal he wisely bailed out. Barr is no one I trust. Having him under oath for these hearings made him significantly more trustworthy though Also, you seem to be all over the place when talking ‘political dirty tricks’. On one hand the pee tape talk (arguably a dirty trick) crippled Trump and that was unacceptably unfair in your eyes. On the other hand, if Trump can finagle 12,000 votes out of thin air, well that is just the game and how it is played. I would hope for more ethics all around here too but you are inconsistent here. There are political dirty tricks and there are acts way beyond a trick to the point it becomes a crime. Trump’s attempts to retain the office started out in the legal arena but when successive attempts failed he took things into the criminal realm, imo. To claim he was setting things up for the next election cycle has to be called ludicrous. Sorry Len but your blind spots have eclipsed mine I’m all over the place? Me? You went from suggesting people listen to William Barr for clarity to completely disregarding what he has said to referring to him as a Trump Toady in 3 posts. To make things slightly more confusing, you then doubled back to suggesting the guy you cited as reliable, then cited as completely unreliable, reverted back to reliable when what he says aligns with your bias, with a parting shot that you don’t trust what he says. Next up, unsubstantiated and somewhat wild accusations of criminality, alleged criminality and some mythical “jury” that would “convict” him. Given that the hearings are not encumbered by the normal rules of criminal court, I’m not sure what you’re going on about here? Honestly, Bob, if our criminal system worked like some of these political tribunals, where evidence could be withheld, leaked, ignored and the prosecutor had complete control over the process, I’d be surprised if the conviction rate wasn’t 100%. Plus, I think that scenario has played out, historically, in certain places and reasonable people think a system rigged in that fashion is not in the public interest. You’re rapidly becoming the Kama Sutra of this subject Bob. You started out fine, pedestrian really, but with each page that turns, the positions you take are more and more difficult and a struggle to maintain. You should have your heart checked, Bob. What I’m saying is simple. Stop the Steal is political campaigning in line with Russiagate. Sad, but true. Oh, and yes, I most definitely agree that if Trump prevailed in any of his court challenges, he would have contested the Biden presidency. That would not have been the first time that happened, and it’s not the first time it failed. I also believe that had the Dems been able to remove Trump from office mid-term—-one way or the other—-they would have done so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Andy1 said: There were plenty of backpacks that were never searched and handguns may have been concealed. The mob went in and left without checks by law enforcement. So I don’t think we can assume that they weren’t armed. They chose to use tear gas, bear spray, steel clubs and other weapons. Reportedly, they had members outside of DC ready to bring in firearms if needed. DC also has severe laws regarding firearms that may have affected their decisions. If they were willing to commit treason punishable by death they probably were not afraid of a misdemeanor gun rap. Who brings pepper spray to the death of democracy? 2 hours ago, Tenhigh said: Maybe if you drop the cult talk you'll get a more reasonable response, Bob. Just a thought. @Nineforty, what is eye roll-worthy of my post? Don't you agree that acting civil goes a long way in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Bob in Mich said: Yes, there is argument there. What you are describing, the Red Mirage, was discussed at length in today’s hearing. It is a phenomena that is well known - early returns will favor republicans and when the mail in ballots are counted, the Dems will gain ground. Trump was warned to expect this to happen. He deliberately ignored the warning and begun to claim this was suspicious. It was expected The Red Mirage was discussed in the media for months leading up to the election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bob in Mich said: Weapons are not needed in some coups. Research auto coup https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6zjigTxfQ4 Who is this guy? I watched the whole thing waiting to hear him explain why it was a dissident coup or whatever and he never did. He rambled on for 11 minutes about how it's not even up for discussion. Everybody says it is. If you don't think so its cuz you just watch movies and are uninformed. Edited June 14, 2022 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 6 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Who is this guy? I watched the whole thing waiting to hear him explain why it was a dissident coup or whatever and he never did. He rambled on for 11 minutes about how it's not even up for discussion. Everybody says it is. If you don't think so its cuz you just watch movies and are uninformed. Why, this is Beau of course. Beau has a YouTube channel and comments on current news events. Of course I don’t agree sometimes but he has pretty good content. I think his background is military or military intelligence His point was that unquestionably it was a coup. The classification within coups seems debatable. To those less educated in coups, it may not appear to be a coup because it did not look like coups that one has seen in movies. That is because tanks and guns, like in the movie military coups, are unnecessary to retain power in this type of coup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 The hypocrisy is staggering. ”Blue lives matter”… except for the lives of capitol police. “Law and order”… except to right a wrong. ”The Constitution is paramount”… except when Your Guy loses under its rules. Advisor after advisor testifying that the fraud claims were bogus, but Trump “wasn’t interested in the facts.” This was an attempted coup by a psychotic narcissist. And Fascist News Channel is hardly covering any of it. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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