whatdrought Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, cle23 said: Because they played prevent defense for the entire second half. Most teams would in that situation. Like I said in a previous post, I think it's stupid when teams do that. Keep playing the way you were playing to get where you were. But a vast majority of teams with a 28-point lead will soften up and trade yards for time off the clock. Prevent means you aren’t as aggressive - not that you let the other team back in the game. The browns offense gained 4 yards in the third as the Steelers scored twice. If they don’t kick on 4th and 1 (which was horrible, and representative of the Steelers implosion) it could have gone differently. Not saying it would have - but it could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree it is a real challenge. I am glad I am no longer a journalist because separating the reliable from the fake in a world where everyone has a platform but only some have a responsibility and a professional code is one of the challenges of our times. That’s what I mean. The system was setup pre social media instant news and it was much more reliable. I guess my issue is more I think the entire news system needs a bit of new structure and guidelines on how to operate. But the tricky part is social media needs structure and accountability in all this too. And that’s probably not gonna happen in our lifetimes if ever. Good reporters are actually punished for ethical reporting because it won’t generate the same clicks/views as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Are we still discussing JJ Watt here or did the mods move the thread ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I couldn't see any way for Pittsburgh to win that game. They were outplayed everywhere. https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401220394 go back and look at this. 35-10 first half. - browns lead. 3rd Quarter: Steelers: 156 yards, 14 points. Browns: 31 yards, 0 points. Start of 4th: 35-23. Steelers kick on 4th and 1, huge surrender kick. The browns gash the exhausted Steelers defense. Not saying it would happen- but what if the Steelers go (as everyone wanted them to) and get that yard? Based on the 3rd quarter, they probably score. 35-30. It’s a big what if, obviously. But seeing no route to the Steelers wining? Come on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, whatdrought said: It’s a big what if, obviously. But seeing no route to the Steelers wining? Come on now. The Browns would have just given it to Chubb and ran all over them. The Browns were better all over the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 36 minutes ago, cle23 said: If it was Buffalo playing that way it would have been Buffalo "making plays and forcing turnovers." Cleveland obviously needs to improve on defense mostly, but they were opportunistic with turnovers all year. It was a two score game late because like most other teams up that big they played a lot more prevent defense. I think it's stupid that teams do that but it's the nature of the game. I’m just calling it how I saw it. Don’t put words in my mouth, because you don’t know what I would have said had that been Buffalo. I likely would’ve said the same thing I’m saying now - it was more the other team imploding than Buffalo doing anything special. I have no ill will towards the Browns, I like Stefanski, so much so that I talked all my Browns fan friends off a ledge when he was hired. They thought it was awful and wanted someone else. I said if he did a solid enough job he’d be a COTY contender. He’s done a good job building a culture there, but he has a lot of strong personalities that are more “me than we.” It’s an uphill battle, I had some ties inside the locker room at one point it’s exactly that... a lot of strong individual personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cle23 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, whatdrought said: Prevent means you aren’t as aggressive - not that you let the other team back in the game. The browns offense gained 4 yards in the third as the Steelers scored twice. If they don’t kick on 4th and 1 (which was horrible, and representative of the Steelers implosion) it could have gone differently. Not saying it would have - but it could have. Prevent defense is designed to trade time on the clock for yardage by preventing big pkays. You obviously don't want them to score but with a 28 point lead if you can milk 5-7 minutes off the clock and they end up scoring that's a net gain. The ticket is the offense having to continue to milk the clock and hopefully at least score field goals as well. It seems nobody is taking into account either that Cleveland was missing its head coach and had a brand new offensive play caller for this game. The offense did struggle in the third quarter but very rarely do teams stay hot on offense for an entire game. Cleveland is by no means a perfect team. Their offense has the potential to be very very good especially with the running game. The defense has a lot of room for improvement but already has cornerstone pieces with Garrett and Ward. They were also missing an early second round safety and their number to corner for the entire season. They also installed completely new offensive and defensive systems in a season with no off season. the team struggled the first half of the Year while learning the system on the fly, but look at the differences towards the end of the year especially on offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, HOUSE said: Are we still discussing JJ Watt here or did the mods move the thread ? It's a Browns thread now. Get with the program. Edited February 16, 2021 by Johnnycage46 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, cle23 said: Cleveland is by no means a perfect team. Their offense has the potential to be very very good especially with the running game. The defense has a lot of room for improvement but already has cornerstone pieces with Garrett and Ward. They were also missing an early second round safety and their number to corner for the entire season. They also installed completely new offensive and defensive systems in a season with no off season. the team struggled the first half of the Year while learning the system on the fly, but look at the differences towards the end of the year especially on offense Yes, they have elite pieces. I’m still not sold on Baker as anything more than Ryan Tannehill, but that isn’t an insult. I personally just don’t feel like he can flat out win a football game week in and week out on his own if he needs to. Not many QBs can - I still think he can win a Super Bowl in the right scenario. The important thing will be if they can take the next step against (on paper) a more difficult schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I really don't understand why we can't all agree on some very basic points here... The Titans, Browns, Steelers, and Packers all suck... The Bills...JJ Watt or not, are going to win the SB next year because they quite literally have the son of Zeus playing QB for them... Do facts not matter any longer? It's science folks... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Not one national sports show (that I've heard) has mentioned anything about JJ Watt being interested in...or being a fit in Buffalo. It's the offseason and Buffalo appears to be irrelevant nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, whatdrought said: That’s not a dominate win. Dominant is the word you are looking for. Dominant. Dominance. Predominant. Why people want to take the "n" out of that word I don't know but I would argue that it WAS a dominant win. Not as dominant as the Chiefs over the Bills because the Bills couldn't get off the mat for 2 full quarters, but dominant nonetheless. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: The Browns would have just given it to Chubb and ran all over them. The Browns were better all over the field. Again, I appeal to the statistics... as a whole, with the exception of about 6 horrible plays by the Steelers, I’m not sure that argument holds validity. I’m not box score scouting here either. I watched the game. Take away 1 or two of the turnovers and that game has a huge variance of potential outcomes. Obviously teams are payed to make plays and capitalize when the other team makes mistakes. The browns did that and won an important game. I’m not taking away from them at all, and I do think they’re the better team right now. That being said - my initial assertion in this thread was that their win was due in large part to the implosion of the Steelers. I define the implosion as 5 turnovers, one for a score, and a couple of boneheaded coaching decisions. Outside of those damning errors, it’s hard to see that the Browns played that much better than the Steelers. 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: The Browns would have just given it to Chubb and ran all over them. The Browns were better all over the field. Also, the browns ran for 127 yards while holding a lead the entire game... that’s not shabby, but don’t act like they were having a record breaking running day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, cle23 said: Prevent defense is designed to trade time on the clock for yardage by preventing big pkays. You obviously don't want them to score but with a 28 point lead if you can milk 5-7 minutes off the clock and they end up scoring that's a net gain. The ticket is the offense having to continue to milk the clock and hopefully at least score field goals as well. It seems nobody is taking into account either that Cleveland was missing its head coach and had a brand new offensive play caller for this game. The offense did struggle in the third quarter but very rarely do teams stay hot on offense for an entire game. Cleveland is by no means a perfect team. Their offense has the potential to be very very good especially with the running game. The defense has a lot of room for improvement but already has cornerstone pieces with Garrett and Ward. They were also missing an early second round safety and their number to corner for the entire season. They also installed completely new offensive and defensive systems in a season with no off season. the team struggled the first half of the Year while learning the system on the fly, but look at the differences towards the end of the year especially on offense. Right, but when your prevent defense let’s them back in the game you’ve done something wrong. Just like the Bills did against the Rams in week 3. Again, the Steelers had the ball at midfield at the end of the third down 12 points having just scored back to back and having forced the browns off the field three straight times. If the Steelers score instead of punting it’s a different game. Again- a huge if and it doesn’t matter cause it didn’t happen. This is the point: The Browns win can be directly associated with 5-6 mistakes made by the Steelers. Some of them were good plays by the browns (the tipped interception, and the first interception was a good catch, but more or a terrible throw), but several of them were just horrible plays by the Steelers. The fumble to start the game, the interception where Ben just threw it to the air and the browns guy was there. The decision to punt. The dropped pick six late in the game. all of this works together to create what I would define as an implosion by the Steelers, which is where this digression began. Edited February 16, 2021 by whatdrought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, zow2 said: Not one national sports show (that I've heard) has mentioned anything about JJ Watt being interested in...or being a fit in Buffalo. It's the offseason and Buffalo appears to be irrelevant nationally. If you have a defensive football system that doesn't fit JJ Watt, then you're actually a soccer team, and you're playing a 4-4-2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, zow2 said: Not one national sports show (that I've heard) has mentioned anything about JJ Watt being interested in...or being a fit in Buffalo. It's the offseason and Buffalo appears to be irrelevant nationally. NFL Network now saying Bills one of 4 teams "in the mix" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, zow2 said: Not one national sports show (that I've heard) has mentioned anything about JJ Watt being interested in...or being a fit in Buffalo. It's the offseason and Buffalo appears to be irrelevant nationally. I’ve heard several say he would be a fit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordong Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: NFL Network now saying Bills one of 4 teams "in the mix" I just saw that he was fair market value.....only depending on what that means 1 hour ago, zow2 said: Not one national sports show (that I've heard) has mentioned anything about JJ Watt being interested in...or being a fit in Buffalo. It's the offseason and Buffalo appears to be irrelevant nationally. Don't know what your are looking at but bills have been on this list since the day He got released (ESPN) sooo there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 IMO, the unfortunate aspect of the Cleveland comment is to let contending teams know "Watt wants to be paid". The discount angle is just part of his schtick, he wants money while playing on a winning, relevant, team. GB, Pitt, or the Bills would need to match a Cleveland type offer for consideration, which, in my guess, now puts it up to 15-17 million. IMO, the odds of the Bills getting him have dropped considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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