Feliciano: "I don't see myself going anywhere else. I see myself as a Bill next year."

[NewEra]

14 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

No doubt. We can’t have A+ talents at every position. Feliciano is not the problem, probably a B to B+ player. He’s a big fat angry SOB and Allen loves him. Wont cost a ton.

I think he’s a B player of he’s making 3 mill a year.  If he’s making 7-8 mill a year, he’s a D player and waste of cap

[Victory Formation]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think he’s a B player of he’s making 3 mill a year.  If he’s making 7-8 mill a year, he’s a D player and waste of cap

Seems grossly negligent to not put a quality line in front of your budding franchise QB. Especially when he likes the player in question. Did we not learn from Kansas City?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think he’s a B player of he’s making 3 mill a year.  If he’s making 7-8 mill a year, he’s a D player and waste of cap

 

I don't quite understand your change in the grading of the player according to how much he's paid.  The player's skill is the same?

 

What I think is a better way to put it is that the Bills got good value from Feliciano for the past two years at $4M/yr.  That's paying him like the #14-#15 paid guard in the league and the #20 paid center.   He's probably a bit better than a mid-pack player overall, and he's got versatility and attitude, so the value was good.

 

But if we start paying him $8M/yr, that's paying him like a top-10 guard.  And I'm not sure he's a top-10 guard overall. (It would be paying him like a mid-pack Center, which could be a fair evaluation - but we need to aim better than a mid-pack center to contend!!!!).

 

Now - the unknown piece for me is how much the off-season surgery and the pec tear impacted the level of his play this season.  I thought he played better last season.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

Seems grossly negligent to not put a quality line in front of your budding franchise QB. Especially when he likes the player in question. Did we not learn from Kansas City?

Is this serious?  Did you see Feliciano play vs KC?  
 

OL IS important and it’s the reason that I say his play at 3M is a B, but a D @ his perceived “market value”....felecianos play is not worth 7-8 mill a year.  It’s an overpay and we’d be talking about this next year after a Chris Jones clobbers him again.  He’s one of the reason our offense was so bad vs KC.  What am I missing here?
 

 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't quite understand your change in the grading of the player according to how much he's paid.  The player's skill is the same?

 

What I think is a better way to put it is that the Bills got good value from Feliciano for the past two years at $4M/yr.  That's paying him like the #14-#15 paid guard in the league and the #20 paid center.   He's probably a bit better than a mid-pack player overall, and he's got versatility and attitude, so the value was good.

 

But if we start paying him $8M/yr, that's paying him like a top-10 guard.  And I'm not sure he's a top-10 guard overall. (It would be paying him like a mid-pack Center, which could be a fair evaluation - but we need to aim better than a mid-pack center to contend!!!!).

 

Now - the unknown piece for me is how much the off-season surgery and the pec tear impacted the level of his play this season.  I thought he played better last season.

I use cap hit + performance in grading players we’re about to resign/sign.  That’s where my grade comes from. 

Feliciano is not a 7-8M player imo.  He’s a 4Mish player imo.  Him at a 7-8M cap hit + performance has a negative effect on our team imo, as we’re overpaying him based on his performance, hence the low grade.  
A 3M cap hit + his performance makes more sense because we can than allocate that extra 4-5M on another player than can hopefully make up for his average contribution.  

 

i believe that if we pay him his “market value” that we’ll regret resigning him after we lose in the AFCCG to KC next year 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Also, I think Feliciano may be "Stirring the Pot" a bit.  As one of the responses said: "Wow theyre is no chill in Jon, he just posted himself at center".

 

 

During the bye week, he posted this:

 

Note the little "devil" after "where I wanna be". 

Feliciano wasn't shy in interviews at that point about wanting to play center, although he was also very best-behaved about saying "I don't care, I'll play wherever the team needs me, RG, LG, Center".

 

Then there's the bit about thumbs-up'ing Daboll in the coaches' booth after a run play in the Ravens game.

 

On the one hand, nothing wrong with expressing a preference, but also being willing to fill any role you're asked to help the team.  On the other hand, the team just dealt with the follow-on from signing Quinton Spain to good money with some guarantees, then having him apparently act up in some way when positional football decisions on the line didn't shake out as he wished. 

 

Wondering how the FO and coaches feel about this.

He might just be reminding the FO and coaches of his versatility, and that he is worth re-signing, that and knowing someone wants your job, cough, cough, Morse... might just be a motivational factor for that individual, just sayin

 

Go Bills!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

He might just be reminding the FO and coaches of his versatility, and that he is worth re-signing, that and knowing someone wants your job, cough, cough, Morse... might just be a motivational factor for that individual, just sayin

 

Go Bills!!!

 

He might!  Though I doubt the FO and coaches need reminding since that's the first or second thing they mention about him.

 

I'm sure Feliciano doing well enough at center to earn a 3rd start while Morse was "healthy" sent a message.

[Don Otreply]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He might!  Though I doubt the FO and coaches need reminding since that's the first or second thing they mention about him.

 

I'm sure Feliciano doing well enough at center to earn a 3rd start while Morse was "healthy" sent a message.

I agree with that, but I suspect it’s more along the lines of advocating for oneself, because if he doesn’t advocate for himself who is  going to? Can’t just sit back and rely on an agent, It also helps with the backup plan to advertise to other teams on the unlikely chance he were to not be re-signed, because those teams are always looking as well. 

[Victory Formation]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Is this serious?  Did you see Feliciano play vs KC?  
 

OL IS important and it’s the reason that I say his play at 3M is a B, but a D @ his perceived “market value”....felecianos play is not worth 7-8 mill a year.  It’s an overpay and we’d be talking about this next year after a Chris Jones clobbers him again.  He’s one of the reason our offense was so bad vs KC.  What am I missing here?
 

 

He was good all year, struggled one game against a premier player.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

He was good all year, struggled one game against a premier player.

I don’t agree that he only had one bad game.  And that premier player will be back again next year and we’ll

likely have to play them 2 times if we plan on making the SB. 
 

the bad game that he had was an all time stinker and directly led to us not being able to run our offense.  He then made a fool of himself as he gave me flashbacks of Afa and Sika.  
 

I love his attitude. I don’t think he’s worth close to 7-8M a year and I hope we don’t pay him that much.  Imo, his real worth is being able to play multiple positions and the persona in the locker room.  I don’t feel

he and Morse should be playing side by side and they’re so different in how they attack the game 

jmo

 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Also, I think Feliciano may be "Stirring the Pot" a bit.  As one of the responses said: "Wow theyre is no chill in Jon, he just posted himself at center".

 

 

During the bye week, he posted this:

 

Note the little "devil" after "where I wanna be". 

Feliciano wasn't shy in interviews at that point about wanting to play center, although he was also very best-behaved about saying "I don't care, I'll play wherever the team needs me, RG, LG, Center".

 

Then there's the bit about thumbs-up'ing Daboll in the coaches' booth after a run play in the Ravens game.

 

On the one hand, nothing wrong with expressing a preference, but also being willing to fill any role you're asked to help the team.  On the other hand, the team just dealt with the follow-on from signing Quinton Spain to good money with some guarantees, then having him apparently act up in some way when positional football decisions on the line didn't shake out as he wished. 

 

Wondering how the FO and coaches feel about this.

Good business savvy on Jons part or over the top ? Your opinion .

I think this guy brings much more to the Bills than statistics.

He fits. and i think his flexibility has made him a better player overall.
 If he goes to center this season ? That leaves hole at guard .
 and the Offense is a different game to call for Daboll.
Not a fan of Ford yet. No to Winters. Ike Boettger is serviceable and seems to be improving generally speakin

Yes to Feliciano and I want to see been make a smart deal for both. thinking he could move to center when we move on from Morse ???
 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Good business savvy on Jons part or over the top ? Your opinion .

 

It's not my opinion that counts, but as I pointed out in the post to which you're responding: how the FO and coaches feel about it.

 

Again as I pointed out in the post to which you're responding:

Quote

the team just dealt with the follow-on from signing Quinton Spain to good money with some guarantees, then having him apparently act up in some way when positional football decisions on the line didn't shake out as he wished.

 

Did I mention that I pointed these things out in the post to which you're responding?

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Good business savvy on Jons part or over the top ? Your opinion .

I think this guy brings much more to the Bills than statistics.

He fits. and i think his flexibility has made him a better player overall.
 If he goes to center this season ? That leaves hole at guard .
 and the Offense is a different game to call for Daboll.
Not a fan of Ford yet. No to Winters. Ike Boettger is serviceable and seems to be improving generally speakin

Yes to Feliciano and I want to see Beane make a smart deal for both. thinking he could move to center when we move on from Morse ???
 

 

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not my opinion that counts, but as I pointed out in the post to which you're responding: how the FO and coaches feel about it.

 

Again as I pointed out in the post to which you're responding:

 

Did I mention that I pointed these things out in the post to which you're responding?

I realize they are two different things. I wondered of your opinion of his "antics"

[Cheektowaga Chad]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I still don't get the "cut Morse" drum so many are beating.

 

Morse is one of the better pass protecting centers in the league and a good technician in the run game (not a mauler).  As has been pointed out, if they really need the money they could try to restructure him and save almost as much.

 

Feliciano's best strength is that he's a versatile, durable interior OLman who can backup either side or center at an acceptable level of play against most DL.

 

By cutting Morse and slotting Feliciano in at center, we remove a good pass blocker (our primary offensive focus), don't save much money and <$2M over a restructuring, replace him with a lesser pass blocker (again, our primary offensive focus), and eliminate Feliciano's best strength (versatility).  Yeah, Beane, let's get Right On That!

I don't necessarily get it myself but I get why its brought up - saves a little cash and Feliciano is a fan favorite

 

I think its worth noting that the bills love flexibility when it comes to offensive linemen, morse is the only linemen that only plays one position

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I don’t agree that he only had one bad game.  And that premier player will be back again next year and we’ll

likely have to play them 2 times if we plan on making the SB. 
 

the bad game that he had was an all time stinker and directly led to us not being able to run our offense.  He then made a fool of himself as he gave me flashbacks of Afa and Sika.  
 

I love his attitude. I don’t think he’s worth close to 7-8M a year and I hope we don’t pay him that much.  Imo, his real worth is being able to play multiple positions and the persona in the locker room.  I don’t feel

he and Morse should be playing side by side and they’re so different in how they attack the game 

jmo

 

Better than Spain was. Probably a top 25-30 guard in the NFL. Not elite but slightly above average. Way better than $3M, that’s less than John Miller made last year. Feliciano is way better than Miller. Find an elite guard in the draft and we have two above average guards locked up for the next 2-3 years.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I realize they are two different things. I wondered of your opinion of his "antics"

 

Ah, OK wasn't clear it was a question, sorry. 

 

I don't know that I have an opinion, really.  The little devil on the pic of him at center during the bye week was a bit of a chain-yank I thought, but he followed it up by making clear it was a non-issue to him: wherever the team thought he was needed, he'd play.  The team probably liked it if they were trying to light a fire under Morse.

 

I think given the past history with Spain, before the Bills sign him to a long term contract if they do, they need to have a frank talk and clarify the role they see him in and make sure he and the team are on the same page.  Because if he really sees himself as a Center-in-waiting and the team sees him as a Utility Infielder, that could be trouble.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Good business savvy on Jons part or over the top ? Your opinion .

I think this guy brings much more to the Bills than statistics.

He fits. and i think his flexibility has made him a better player overall.
 If he goes to center this season ? That leaves hole at guard .
 and the Offense is a different game to call for Daboll.
Not a fan of Ford yet. No to Winters. Ike Boettger is serviceable and seems to be improving generally speakin

Yes to Feliciano and I want to see been make a smart deal for both. thinking he could move to center when we move on from Morse ???
 

If he goes to center, it leaves 2 holes at guard and backup center

25 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Better than Spain was. Probably a top 25-30 guard in the NFL. Not elite but slightly above average. Way better than $3M, that’s less than John Miller made last year. Feliciano is way better than Miller. Find an elite guard in the draft and we have two above average guards locked up for the next 2-3 years.

Better than spain was means what?  He’s better than a guy we cut on a whim?  
just because the bengals overpaid John Miller 3M doesn’t make Feliciano worth more than 3M.  I’ll give him 4M.  More than that and I think it’s an overlay.  Jmo

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Better than spain was means what?  He’s better than a guy we cut on a whim?  
just because the bengals overpaid John Miller 3M doesn’t make Feliciano worth more than 3M.  I’ll give him 4M.  More than that and I think it’s an overlay.  Jmo

Even a slightly below average retread gets $5M. Any FA making less than that is likely a bottom of the barrel, backup lineman who will likely be a camp body at best. Feliciano can play guard and he can also play center, that versatility is extremely valuable.
 

Outside of being handled by Chris Jones, which I will absolutely admit, he got handled, but outside of that he looked like a quality lineman. Not an All Pro, but a respectable lineman to put in front of Josh. Not elite, but solid. I see no need to make a hole there, won’t find a better free agent for the money and we only have so many draft picks, which we would be wise to spend a 2nd or 3rd on a few linemen as is anyways. 
 

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Even a slightly below average retread gets $5M. Any FA making less than that is likely a bottom of the barrel, backup lineman who will likely be a camp body at best. Feliciano can play guard and he can also play center, that versatility is extremely valuable.
 

Outside of being handled by Chris Jones, which I will absolutely admit, he got handled, but outside of that he looked like a quality lineman. Not an All Pro, but a respectable lineman to put in front of Josh. Not elite, but solid. I see no need to make a hole there, won’t find a better free agent for the money and we only have so many draft picks, which we would be wise to spend a 2nd or 3rd on a few linemen as is anyways. 
 

My point exactly. 
 

I think he’s an average to slightly below average retread that holds the majority of his value in being able to play 2 positions and run blocking. I believe that he’s a BELOW AVERAGE pass blocker....for a team that passes 70% of the time.  

 

You disagree.  Fine by me

[Victory Formation]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

My point exactly. 
 

I think he’s an average to slightly below average retread that holds the majority of his value in being able to play 2 positions and run blocking. I believe that he’s a BELOW AVERAGE pass blocker....for a team that passes 70% of the time.  

 

You disagree.  Fine by me

Agree to disagree is fine by me. I’m sure we’ll likely agree in some other thread on some other random topic, no love lost. I just think you’re salty over the Chiefs game. Chris Jones is what he is, probably the best DT in the NFL not named Aaron Donald.