The Patrick Mahomes Super Bowl Debate

[JohnNord]

After weeks of hearing how Patrick Mahomes is the “Michael Jordan” of the NFL, some in the media are now going out of their way to prop up his performance in the Super Bowl - despite the bad numbers and meager scoring output.

 

 

Yet earlier today, one of the most respect film analysts Gregg Cosell, actually used film study to show that Mahomes didn’t play his best game.  In the full podcast Tucker noted that so many wanted to blame the OL without acknowledging that Mahomes wasn’t as sharp as he’s been in the past.  

 

 

My opinion, is that while Mahomes made some incredible plays it was still probably his worst game as a pro.  I wouldn’t say he was the reason he lost, but you can add him to the long list of Chiefs who didn’t deliver.  
 

I do feel that the media is contorting to try to prop him up.  I find that kind of bizarre.  The crazy thing is that against the Bills everyone said “oh look how he’s moving he’s showing NO effects from turf toe.”  Then when he was losing they said “that turf toe is really affecting his throws tonight.”

 

The Chiefs fanbase is especially banging this drum hard.   
 

Where do you fall on this debate and do you think there’s a Pro-Mahomes narrative some are trying to push?

[Johnnycage46]

I would tend to trust Cosell over Mina Kimes, personally.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Michael Jordan didn't even make it to the NBA finals until his 7th year...........he had more than a few fails in the lead up........and never won a championship when he didn't have the healthier and more talented team.

 

That's not to detract from Jordan but the notion that he was infallible is far from correct.    2 SB appearances and 3 title games in 3 years as a starting QB in the NFL is pretty amazing.

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I would tend to trust Cosell over Mina Kimes, personally.

Mina Kimes...legends say if you listen closely you can still hear the echoes of her shriek when the Bills drafted Josh Allen on the wind.

[4_kidd_4]

I read somewhere that Michael Jordan is the Michael Jordan of Michael Jordans.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Mahommes was hurt and it affected his movement in the pocket.   He played ok just not super-human. The line was the main issue pure and simple. I will add Kelce had three drops in the SB in a season where he had only 1 in 16 games.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Where do you fall on this debate and do you think there’s a Pro-Mahomes narrative some are trying to push?

 

I go with My Quarterback, Josh Allen.  After the playoff loss to the Texans, the narrative "Josh Allen Melted Down" emerged.  Some renegades pointed out that without some bad play from other sections of the team, maybe the Bills don't cede 19 unanswered points starting in the 3Q.

 

Josh Allen said "teams usually go the way their QB goes and I didn't play well enough"

 

Is it fair to say the loss wasn't all on Patrick Mahomes?  Absolutely.  There were a lot of things wrong including a jailbreak OL and some puzzling lack of adjustments.

Is it fair to say like Geoff Schwartz does "The Chiefs offense had failures on Sunday against the Bucs but it wasn’t because of Patrick Mahomes."?

 

Nopenope.  Teams usually go the way their QB goes and he didn't play well enough.

[Mat68]

Allen played better vs Kc than Mahomes played in the Superbowl.  Every great throw Mahomes made after running around was in triple coverage through a defenders hands, slightly tipping the ball and resulting in the miss play of the WR.  It is overblown.  Allen gets killed for the same thing Mahomes gets praise for.

 

[Rico]

Pictures speak louder than words.

[Maybe Someday]

4 minutes ago, Rico said:

Pictures speak louder than words.

Better be careful posting this...you might have an angry thin skinned QB Producer coming after you. 

[MJS]

Maybe he didn't play his best game, but he certainly was not the reason the offense struggled. Anyone claiming that is correct.

 

But there were a number of throws from Mahomes that had me saying "that wasn't a great throw" and a few times he bailed from the pocket needlessly, or retreated backwards when he should have stepped up in the pocket.

 

And there were a number if WOW plays he made too.

 

But certainly, he did not get enough help and his failings were largely a result of the failings of everyone else around him, because the constant pressure got in his head.

[reddogblitz]

It was a team loss.  All are equally responsible.

[JGMcD2]

17 minutes ago, MJS said:

Maybe he didn't play his best game, but he certainly was not the reason the offense struggled. Anyone claiming that is correct.

 

But there were a number of throws from Mahomes that had me saying "that wasn't a great throw" and a few times he bailed from the pocket needlessly, or retreated backwards when he should have stepped up in the pocket.

 

And there were a number if WOW plays he made too.

 

But certainly, he did not get enough help and his failings were largely a result of the failings of everyone else around him, because the constant pressure got in his head.

I agree with all of this. 
 

I just find the distortion of the events by the media funny depending on the player.
 

You mean to tell me that if the line sucks and your skill players don’t make plays, the QB isn’t going to look as good as he would when the line blocks and your skill players make plays? color me surprised. 
 

Someone should’ve told that to the media when Josh was getting chased around his first two years in the league with little blocking and his best weapons were Robert Foster and John Brown. Sure, he made some bonehead plays, but it was never always all on him. 

[Success]

It was a bad game for him, by any standard. But in that bad game, he had 2-3 plays that seemed superhuman - the kind of plays that almost no one else can make.

 

I still wonder about a couple of those throws.  Did he really aim them to hit the guy in the helmet? Even he probably only makes those 1 out of 10x.

 

[Motorin']

39 minutes ago, Rico said:

Pictures speak louder than words.

 

That was immediately after he made the diving 30 yard throw on 4th down that hit his RB in the face only to go incomplete. 

 

It was probably his worst day as a pro, but you can't knock his effort. 

[Zerovoltz]

I think Mahomes didn't play one of his better games....he, along with the offense as a whole....kept trying to go downfield....when the underneath was there for the taking..runs were there to be had.

 

I've said before....that line you saw in the Super Bowl...was bad...it was the worst line KC has fielded since Mahomes has been QB...but I'd tell you that because KC has won with Mahoems, playing with bad lines before....they clearly thought this wasn't different than those times....but it was...and they didn't adjust....at all..not even at halftime.  They were SURE they could keep running our deep route offense, because even with line problems...Mahomes just runs around and finds someone anyhow.....that works if he had half way stay moving WHILE STILL looking downfield....there is a big difference when the rush is inisde and out and you can't do it.  Mahomes also, when the line is playing bad.....start to assume every play it will be bad and not step up into the pocket....agian,  things that they've gotten away with this whole time....

 

......the team, coaches...Mahomes himself....didn't want to admit they were the team that had to adapt to someone else....we've been teh team that you had to adapt to.  Arrogance.

 

This game doens't change who Mahomes is or what he can do, or what he will continue to do.  His overall body of work speaks plenty for his abilities...he needs niether propped up, nor knocked down for Sunday.  KC needs to understand that Mahomes is mortal...football.....beleive it or not....is still a team game....I think they will understand that lesson going forward and Mahomes is going to still be the same Mahomes, whoever you think that is.

[HappyDays]

I really do think Mahomes and Allen are very similar QBs right now, with the same strengths and flaws. Both failed to take available check down options in their playoff losses. Both tend to bail from the pocket a little early. Neither was the primary reason their teams lost but they weren't without blame. I think Allen did even better at getting the offense back into the game against the Chiefs, the problem is the defense was so bad it didn't matter. Mahomes couldn't get them into the endzone even in garbage time. Poor pass protection was obviously the bigger culprit in both losses.

Edited February 11, 2021 by HappyDays

[TheBrownBear]

He wasn't good in the Super Bowl, but he was basically GOAT levels in the three years leading up to that game.  I'm pretty sure that's why the media is giving him a bit of a pass.  And the fact that his line sucked and his receivers did very little to help him.

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I really do think Mahomes and Allen are very similar QBs right now, with the same strengths and flaws. Both failed to take available check down options in their playoff losses. Both tend to bail from the pocket a little early. Neither was the primary reason their teams lost but they weren't without blame. I think Allen did even better at getting the offense back into the game against the Chiefs, the problem is the defense was so bad it didn't matter. Mahomes couldn't get them into the endzone even in garbage time. Poor pass protection was obviously the bigger culprit in both losses.

 

Josh is where Mahomes was two years ago.   He's the better athlete, but Mahomes still has a slight edge in the poise and accuracy department.  Though Josh is closing ground quick.

[Chicken Boo]

What I don't understand is why they didn't use their RBs more, like they did with Damien Williams all of last post season?

 

He's still the best RB on the roster, btw.

[GunnerBill]

I think Mahomes played poorly. Yes his protection sucked. Yes his weapons did not play well but he played poorly. One of the things that definitely showed up the 2nd half of this year, and I talked about this before the AFCCG is Mahomes has at times got outside the structure of the offense too much. I think both in the Miami game and the New Orleans game that they won it showed up. Too much trying to force the big play rather than take the play that is there. He was great in the AFCCG but that flaw resurfaced when things went wrong in the Superbowl. He has had so much success playing back yard football that I think at times he is a bit addicted to it. Reid and Beineimy needs to remind him that often simplicity is beauty. There were chances to move the ball on Sunday that he didn't take and it was a major contributor to the loss.