Any doubt the Tampa running game wasn’t the difference?

[First Round Bust]

it was a great game plan by Bucs...the O and D lines were terrific...Coach Arians put it into the hands of his coords and they delivered:

 

the strong run and short passes with some screens were outstanding...the long ball was thrown very effectively to get PI calls moreso than the big play.

 

145 yards rushing and 201 passing - no garbage-time stats to skew the analysis:

 

fournette had 16 carries for 89 yards long was 27 and ronald jones had  12 for 61 long was 16

 but

look at the passing game

gronk led them with 7 targets - led with 6 catches and led with 67 yards and led with 2 TDs

next was

fournette with 4 catches for 46 yards (brown was second in targets with 6)

Evans had one catch for 31 - one target

and

Godwin had 2 catches for 9 - 4 targets

 

5 total targets for the star WRs the entire Super Bowl !?!?!  Brown (3rd receiver) did have 5 catches with 6 targets

 

I hope Daboll is watching this over and over to beat the blitzes KC killed us with.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by First Round Bust
sp

[DrPJax]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I think the difference was Tampa’s defensive line and linebackers, but I do think that the running game and the screen game helped open things up for sure

Spot on!  Hab been saying for weeks to watch the lbs, esp white.  He is aggressive, fast, plays pass and run well.  Hey, he can even make big plays like an int he took away from Kelce in the endzone. Compare his play to edmunds , who is at least one year aged of white experience wise in the NFL, and you see how disappointing Edmunds really is. White makes plays all over the field and hits hard; Edmunds usually makes plays all over the field, but it’s usually in our defensive backfield or.after a 20-30 yard play given up on third and 15 as the opposition gets a first down. Can’t shake the multiple Images of him getting blown out of plays as he is so upright , hitting wrong gaps, standing in the end zone after getting driven back on run plays inside our 5 , and.he is such a “ pretty boy” adjusting his uniform ( brusshing himself off , adjusting a towel, guy never looks dirty cuz he never drives anyone to the ground, he places them down gently😂)diving to grab an ARM tackle that most backs break ( Man, you know all this is true and you can usually see all of that in just one game,,maybe even one drive on a good day!😂😈!), and then looks to slap 5 with a near buddy who also didn’t make the tackle until they had given up the fist down on a third and long play!   
 

Your point is spot on too about getting to mahomes with just 4 down lineman, as he was running for his life all night ! Spinning and turning his back to the LOS , running 20-30 yards backwards as kc was trapping him.  ( he is a little better than josh at not ticking a sack tho and had some amazing off balance throws last night to avoid losses). He was missing two starting tackles I believe , but our d line looked so slow at times this year, who thinks we pressure mahomes like TB DID?  NO TDS VS US GIVING UP A TD ON ALL BUT ONE POSSESSION !    I will say this, I am even more impressed now. after seeing a truly good TB defense, that somehow Mcd managed 15 WINS given the lack of impact players, good edge rushers on this roster!  
 

So the blueprint to defeat KC, who had been unstoppable, is not trying to out score them or lessen the damage with soft drop back zones while mahomes sits back with no pressure picking you apart!  Who knew!?   It’s the old get pressure in his face, make him uncomfortable, hitting Kelce and hill and the others with physical db, safety , LB play , AND  have a BALANCED O with good, timely runs that set up your play action ( which Josh just so happens is amazing at) !  This drove home how we were so OUT COACHED in the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game; we did NONE OF THOSE THINGS ( relied on soft d, went the entire season with Daboll NEVER consistently developing a run game), and it proved the SAME game plan employed in SB 25 by Parcels, worked again against the best O in football 30  years later in the same city !  Thank God we lost 2 weeks prior , or we would have been humiliated once again by BRADY en route to a 5 th SB LOSS!   Love Mcd as a human, great, genuine man, but we have a huge talent gap in our front D 7 , that needs addressed before we can be SERIOUS SB  contenders.   TB did it with BA in 2 years; next year is year 5 ( time speeding by!) with Mcd , so I hope he and his staff went to school last night! 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

I think the Bucs D was more of an impact than the rushing game. But they did run the ball very well, which made the play action eat Chiefs up many times. I mean Brady already is one of the best at PA, but when he has a strong running game, ***** makes it so simple for him. Like he's just having fun and toying with the D.

 

But anyway, we knew the Bucs would have to score points to keep up with the Chiefs, (or so we thought). In which case I'd say the Bucs D was more of the reason they won more than anything else.

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

It is not that complicated, Eric Fischer's injury completely compromised the Chiefs O-line which led to Mahomes being under pressure constantly and KC not being able to do much on offense. KC was always going to have to put up points and without their key O-line player it all collapsed. 

 

Boom!

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Pressing X on this one!

[JohnNord]

42 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Spot on!  Hab been saying for weeks to watch the lbs, esp white.  He is aggressive, fast, plays pass and run well.  Hey, he can even make big plays like an int he took away from Kelce in the endzone. Compare his play to edmunds , who is at least one year aged of white experience wise in the NFL, and you see how disappointing Edmunds really is. White makes plays all over the field and hits hard; Edmunds usually makes plays all over the field, but it’s usually in our defensive backfield or.after a 20-30 yard play given up on third and 15 as the opposition gets a first down. Can’t shake the multiple Images of him getting blown out of plays as he is so upright , hitting wrong gaps, standing in the end zone after getting driven back on run plays inside our 5 , and.he is such a “ pretty boy” adjusting his uniform ( brusshing himself off , adjusting a towel, guy never looks dirty cuz he never drives anyone to the ground, he places them down gently😂)diving to grab an ARM tackle that most backs break ( Man, you know all this is true and you can usually see all of that in just one game,,maybe even one drive on a good day!😂😈!), and then looks to slap 5 with a near buddy who also didn’t make the tackle until they had given up the fist down on a third and long play!   
 

Your point is spot on too about getting to mahomes with just 4 down lineman, as he was running for his life all night ! Spinning and turning his back to the LOS , running 20-30 yards backwards as kc was trapping him.  ( he is a little better than josh at not ticking a sack tho and had some amazing off balance throws last night to avoid losses). He was missing two starting tackles I believe , but our d line looked so slow at times this year, who thinks we pressure mahomes like TB DID?  NO TDS VS US GIVING UP A TD ON ALL BUT ONE POSSESSION !    I will say this, I am even more impressed now. after seeing a truly good TB defense, that somehow Mcd managed 15 WINS given the lack of impact players, good edge rushers on this roster!  
 

So the blueprint to defeat KC, who had been unstoppable, is not trying to out score them or lessen the damage with soft drop back zones while mahomes sits back with no pressure picking you apart!  Who knew!?   It’s the old get pressure in his face, make him uncomfortable, hitting Kelce and hill and the others with physical db, safety , LB play , AND  have a BALANCED O with good, timely runs that set up your play action ( which Josh just so happens is amazing at) !  This drove home how we were so OUT COACHED in the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game; we did NONE OF THOSE THINGS ( relied on soft d, went the entire season with Daboll NEVER consistently developing a run game), and it proved the SAME game plan employed in SB 25 by Parcels, worked again against the best O in football 30  years later in the same city !  Thank God we lost 2 weeks prior , or we would have been humiliated once again by BRADY en route to a 5 th SB LOSS!   Love Mcd as a human, great, genuine man, but we have a huge talent gap in our front D 7 , that needs addressed before we can be SERIOUS SB  contenders.   TB did it with BA in 2 years; next year is year 5 ( time speeding by!) with Mcd , so I hope he and his staff went to school last night! 

Edmunds seems to be the player that is dividing the Bills fan base.  Some feel that he just needs a better defensive line to keep the linebackers off of him.  
 

I’m very skeptical however.  I don’t think he was deserving of a Pro Bowl at all this season.  After 3 years, he just doesn’t seem to be anything more capable that an athletic JAG at MLB.  Very few impact plays over his first 3 seasons.  

 

Hopefully I’m wrong - because we don’t really have a choice next season.  He’ll be there, but I’m not very optimistic that he’ll suddenly become a different player.  He’s not very good IMO
 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, First Round Bust said:

it was a great game plan by Bucs...the O and D lines were terrific...Coach Arians put it into the hands of his coords and they delivered:

 

the strong run and short passes with some screens were outstanding...the long ball was thrown very effectively to get PI calls moreso than the big play.

 

145 yards rushing and 201 passing - no garbage-time stats to skew the analysis:

 

fournette had 16 carries for 89 yards long was 27 and ronald jones had  12 for 61 long was 16

 but

look at the passing game

gronk led them with 7 targets - led with 6 catches and led with 67 yards and led with 2 TDs

next was

fournette with 4 catches for 46 yards (brown was second in targets with 6)

Evans had one catch for 31 - one target

and

Godwin had 2 catches for 9 - 4 targets

 

5 total targets for the star WRs the entire Super Bowl !?!?!  Brown (3rd receiver) did have 5 catches with 6 targets

 

I hope Daboll is watching this over and over to beat the blitzes KC killed us with.

 

 

 

 

The great game plan by Bowles was literally a Frazier gameplan lol im just so baffled that im hearing about how brilliant Bowles was last night he just let his front 4 go out and play.  What did they blitz like twice? They played with two high safeties all game.  Daboll needs another receiver or a reliable tight end if he's gonna run the offense he likes brown and davis got single covered easily with some holding assistance of course lol then they could just bring defensive backs on blitzes from all over the field.  Either that or rework the entire offensive line to get more proficient at running the football which will be difficult to do because we have so many holes on defense 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, DrPJax said:

Spot on!  Hab been saying for weeks to watch the lbs, esp white.  He is aggressive, fast, plays pass and run well.  Hey, he can even make big plays like an int he took away from Kelce in the endzone. Compare his play to edmunds , who is at least one year aged of white experience wise in the NFL, and you see how disappointing Edmunds really is. White makes plays all over the field and hits hard; Edmunds usually makes plays all over the field, but it’s usually in our defensive backfield or.after a 20-30 yard play given up on third and 15 as the opposition gets a first down. Can’t shake the multiple Images of him getting blown out of plays as he is so upright , hitting wrong gaps, standing in the end zone after getting driven back on run plays inside our 5 , and.he is such a “ pretty boy” adjusting his uniform ( brusshing himself off , adjusting a towel, guy never looks dirty cuz he never drives anyone to the ground, he places them down gently😂)diving to grab an ARM tackle that most backs break ( Man, you know all this is true and you can usually see all of that in just one game,,maybe even one drive on a good day!😂😈!), and then looks to slap 5 with a near buddy who also didn’t make the tackle until they had given up the fist down on a third and long play!   
 

Your point is spot on too about getting to mahomes with just 4 down lineman, as he was running for his life all night ! Spinning and turning his back to the LOS , running 20-30 yards backwards as kc was trapping him.  ( he is a little better than josh at not ticking a sack tho and had some amazing off balance throws last night to avoid losses). He was missing two starting tackles I believe , but our d line looked so slow at times this year, who thinks we pressure mahomes like TB DID?  NO TDS VS US GIVING UP A TD ON ALL BUT ONE POSSESSION !    I will say this, I am even more impressed now. after seeing a truly good TB defense, that somehow Mcd managed 15 WINS given the lack of impact players, good edge rushers on this roster!  
 

So the blueprint to defeat KC, who had been unstoppable, is not trying to out score them or lessen the damage with soft drop back zones while mahomes sits back with no pressure picking you apart!  Who knew!?   It’s the old get pressure in his face, make him uncomfortable, hitting Kelce and hill and the others with physical db, safety , LB play , AND  have a BALANCED O with good, timely runs that set up your play action ( which Josh just so happens is amazing at) !  This drove home how we were so OUT COACHED in the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game; we did NONE OF THOSE THINGS ( relied on soft d, went the entire season with Daboll NEVER consistently developing a run game), and it proved the SAME game plan employed in SB 25 by Parcels, worked again against the best O in football 30  years later in the same city !  Thank God we lost 2 weeks prior , or we would have been humiliated once again by BRADY en route to a 5 th SB LOSS!   Love Mcd as a human, great, genuine man, but we have a huge talent gap in our front D 7 , that needs addressed before we can be SERIOUS SB  contenders.   TB did it with BA in 2 years; next year is year 5 ( time speeding by!) with Mcd , so I hope he and his staff went to school last night! 

Lol the genius Todd Bowles defensive game plan that stopped the mighty chiefs was literally Frazier's gameplan 🤣 it was a very soft cover 2 and let your front four go out and make plays.   Their guys just got home and ours didn't...they had a huge assist from us injuring fisher.  Im sure we go out and draft/sign some pass rushers and let some other pieces go.  Im sure we expected more out of the guys we signed and that is the area that is the primary offseason focus

Edited February 8, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Fredo G.]

5 hours ago, Cray51 said:

I'd say the RB's were 4th or 5th in the grand scheme of things:

 

1) Buc's Dline pressure all game (and a depleted o-line for the Chiefs)

2) Mahomes lack of accuracy at the beginning of the game (potentially due to injury)

3) Double high safeties by the bucs on 82% of plays to limit Hill and shrink the field

4) Gronk being the go-to on 3rd and short and the redzone killer

5) RB play to drain the clock towards the end of the game

6) Ref's calling the Chiefs physical style by the book

7) Buc's home game vibe

 

There are 10-12 factors that played into this game - and I dont really believe the RB play was a factor until the second half (it was 21-6 at half)

Chiefs had a lot of drops, uncharacteristically...

[djp14150]

7 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I know it’s been said in here multiple times and we can talk about the Chiefs finally starting to get called for their very aggressive style. The ability to run the ball for the Bucs was the big difference in the game. 
 Spags ran the same base defense against the Bucs but their backs made them pay...seems like Daboll had no confidence the Bills could run the ball at all. 

 

it really wasn’t.

 

they ran something around 20 for 80 in the first half.  They had a couple long runs in the second half.

 

 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

TB Trenches.. That's where games are won and lost... TB Trenches were better.. both sides...  Their defense dominated not because of scheme... everyone agrees you double Kelce and Hill... They Dominated cause their front 4 got home often.... KC injuries on the O'Line finally caught up to them. and they are in cap hell this year and next year.   Good thing for KC is they have long contracts in all key areas of the field.  Their offensive line is going to get worse before it gets better

[machine gun kelly]

It was a lot of things.

 

Bucs pressure with 4-5

Bucs ability to run when needed

Solid O Line

 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

Obviously not. The defense was, did you even watch?

So the Tampa running backs didn’t have 150 yards rushing go figure

41 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

it really wasn’t.

 

they ran something around 20 for 80 in the first half.  They had a couple long runs in the second half.

 

 

 

 

So Fournette didn’t score when KC was tired from 27 yards out go figure 

[Augie]

34 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

TB Trenches.. That's where games are won and lost... TB Trenches were better.. both sides...  Their defense dominated not because of scheme... everyone agrees you double Kelce and Hill... They Dominated cause their front 4 got home often.... KC injuries on the O'Line finally caught up to them. and they are in cap hell this year and next year.   Good thing for KC is they have long contracts in all key areas of the field.  Their offensive line is going to get worse before it gets better

 

Win the trenches, win the game. 

[JoshAllin]

Stopped watching after halftime, from what I saw TB D looked in control and brady was hitting his targets, saw the run get stuffed a few times early on in gl. Not sure what happend in the 2nd half but game looked in control already

[FireChans]

Bucs rush attack was 28th in yards and 25 in YPA this season.

 

Is this the worst take of all time?

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Edmunds seems to be the player that is dividing the Bills fan base.  Some feel that he just needs a better defensive line to keep the linebackers off of him.  
 

I’m very skeptical however.  I don’t think he was deserving of a Pro Bowl at all this season.  After 3 years, he just doesn’t seem to be anything more capable that an athletic JAG at MLB.  Very few impact plays over his first 3 seasons.  

 

Hopefully I’m wrong - because we don’t really have a choice next season.  He’ll be there, but I’m not very optimistic that he’ll suddenly become a different player.  He’s not very good IMO
 

 

We saw 2 amazing LBs last night running around making KC miserable. White and David are worlds better than Edmunds & Milano.  Tremaine's flaws are obvious. Maybe a change of scenery on the outside would do him good.  Unfortunately I think Matt will want more than he's worth. I want a front 7 like Tampa. It will be up to Brandon to build that.

[JerseyBills]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don't know. I don't think it was a matter of couldn't based on players. It was scheme and commitment. 

 

Daboll's job this offseason is figuring out how to mesh the run game to the passing game. Bills offense reminded me of the old Mike Martz lead Rams teams. Just throw a run in there for the heck of it. 

You mean those Rams teams with HOF RB Marshall Faulk....

Ya, idk if I agree with that statement.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

You mean those Rams teams with HOF RB Marshall Faulk....

Ya, idk if I agree with that statement.  

Mike Martz turned into a play caller that was heavily criticized for not running. Pass pass pass. Look it up. 

[Rochesterfan]

15 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

You're correct but It felt like they didn't try because even when they were on fire in the pass game,  we still couldn't run with our backs so Dabol put em on the back burner until late in games when we had a comfortable lead

True. 

And the time he had was because KC feared the run game.  With us , they showed zero respect for ours, rightfully so and can basically have the front 4 just focus on getting to the QB. Last night they had to respect TBs run game,  making the front 4 less effective pass rushing 

 

I would really like to examine this.  I don’t think Brady had much time most of the first half.  The difference is Brady has learned to take quick check downs to RBs and TEs.  The part of the Game Josh still needs to improve on.  I think Brady was content most of the game getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less and just hitting the open player for 3-5 yards and moving on.

 

I really think the running game had little impact, but the formations had a bigger impact.  It was not that TB could run the ball because they were not very effective in the first half.  It was that they could bring in 12 personnel with 2 TEs and a RB to force KC into a base defense and get the LBs on the field.  Then attack the LBs with the quick passing game that kept the chains moving.