Thurman#1 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) On 2/10/2021 at 3:33 AM, WideNine said: I think if you look over the history of SB wins you will find that it favors teams that have balanced efficiency on offense and have strong defenses - there are always statistical outliers. By offensive balance, I am not thinking 50/50 run/pass but the ability to successfully take what defenses are giving up - it's efficiency. If efficiency dictates calling more passes because that is what the defense is giving up, then you pass more. The key is effective efficiency. If a team keeps only 4 d-linemen and one LB in the box and you cannot run against it - you are not efficiently running and they can cheat towards coverage all day and take away your passing efficiency as well. Queue the fat lady. By strong defense I mean defenses that do not have to rob Peter to pay Paul. Defenses that do not have to sacrifice coverage to stop the run, or sacrifice stopping the run to effectively pressure and cover receivers. Our coaches did a good job this year maximizing our strengths and covering up for a lot of our weaknesses over the course of an injury-plagued season, but when playing the best teams you can't slap enough lipstick on the pig; They will always expose you. After the first six games our defense played well even against the good teams, doing very well against Arizona (minus the lucky INT), the Steelers, the Niners who were playing really well at that time ... Not good enough to beat KC, of course, but still very good. Despite some very real DL problems, particularly Lotulelei's optout and the lack of a pass rusher on the other side. A lot of the success that the Tampa defense had may well have come down to the Chiefs OL injuries. It would have been interesting to see what happened if they'd been healthy. I'm happier to see KC lose, though. Edited February 15, 2021 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: After the first six games our defense played well even against the good teams, doing very well against Arizona (minus the lucky INT), the Steelers, the Niners who were playing really well at that time ... A lot of the success that the Tampa defense had may well have come down to the Chiefs OL injuries. It would have been interesting to see what happened if they'd been healthy. I'm happier to see KC lose, though. I know they lost their starting LT and that did hurt them, but much of the pressure seemed to come right up the middle on them from guard to guard. I don't think those were guys they lost playing us. Tampa was more aggressive and yet felt that they could stop most of the runs with their front 4 and get pressure. We can't do that with our front 4, we have to go man and bring extra rushers to try to create pressure, but our guys playing man don't match up with the better skill guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, WideNine said: I know they lost their starting LT and that did hurt them, but much of the pressure seemed to come right up the middle on them from guard to guard. I don't think those were guys they lost playing us. Tampa was more aggressive and yet felt that they could stop most of the runs with their front 4 and get pressure. We can't do that with our front 4, we have to go man and bring extra rushers to try to create pressure, but our guys playing man don't match up with the better skill guys. The Chiefs had "an offensive line that was missing four starters — right guard Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, who opted out before the season, along with left guard Kelechi Osemele, right tackle Mitchell Schwartz and left tackle Eric Fisher, who were lost to injuries. Lucas Niang, a third-round offensive line draft pick from TCU, also opted out before the season." https://www.kshb.com/sports/road-to-repeat/chiefs-offensive-never-gets-untracked-in-super-bowl-lv-loss Their OL problems were huge in this game. And when your starting OTs are gone, it puts more pressure on your guards, and nobody can help them the way they could if the tackles weren't needing help with the outside rush. And for whatever reason, Mahomes was moving well against us, but limping and limited against the Bucs. That made a difference too, made it easier for the Bucs D. You say the Chiefs were stopping the run with their front four, and that's not true, it was their front seven. And we saw Mathieu make a bunch of tackles on run plays in that game. And we did that as well, though not as efficiently as the Bucs did. And again, losing Lotulelei was huge. The rest of our front four were smaller guys. People have screamed and moaned about Lotulelei for years here, because they didn't get his role in the defense. We saw this year how much it affected the LBs with Star not in there. I'm not saying our DL is OK and doesn't need work. Not at all. I am saying that we need another pass rusher, at least, and that getting Lotulelei back will help, and that the Bucs DL was in a much better situation with the extra tackle out and with Mahomes not as able to move. Edited February 15, 2021 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Looking at the Super Bowl games - in isolation - is nearly always greatly misleading. Individual games are deeply affected by matchups, but bad bounces, by the way the refs call pass interference, by stuff. The 2018 Patriots were the 21st ranked D. They were better than that, Belichick's always been a bend-but-don't-break guy, but they weren't great. And this year's Bucs were a very good defense but not elite. Not sensational at 6th. I don't especially buy Brady as the GOAT, it's not all that obvious how to compare guys like Unitas, like Otto Graham to modern guys, but he's certainly one of the best of all time. Unfortunately. Very glad to get him out of the division. I have a different perspective on Graham. He competed against 10-12 teams in his 10 year career and the players weren’t nearly as good. Similar to Bill Russell. Both all time greats, but I wouldn’t classify either as the greatest, even though they won championships at the highest rate. unitas played the majority of his career against 12-14 teams. 4 championships in 17 years. When I look at Brady play, he’s not the most talented QB to play the game. He’s not the “best QB I’ve ever seen”, but he’s the greatest qb ever based on winning. Whether or not this is true or not, idk, but I’ve always separated the greatest and the best I’ve ever seen. There isn’t a greatest player I’ve ever seen. The greatest is the player with the most accomplishments and most highly decorated. The best, is the most talented player I’ve ever seen. for example, I know most disagree with this statement, but in his prime, I view Adrian Peterson as the best RB I’ve ever seen. No one rb had his combination of power, speed and make you miss imo. Jim Brown, I suppose, but the defenders he was playing against pale in comparison to the players AD was against physically. Either way, I didn’t watch Jim Brown play, as I was born in 74, so he couldn’t be the “best I’ve ever seen”, because I didn’t really see him. Brady, isn’t the best QB I’ve ever seen, I think I’d give that distinction to Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers at their best. Maybe Montana. Mahomes has done stuff that puts him up there, but he needs more time. Allen has done things to make me think he could eventually be the best. Brady is the greatest imo, based on what he’s accomplished and I don’t think it’s even a debate anymore. Jmo of course. What Graham accomplished was special, but being that there were only 10-12 teams (and the players weren’t nearly as good) changes the dynamics of the situation. different strokes for different folks, but that’s how I see the greatest and best debate. Two different conversations. I realize many others disagree with this. 7 hours ago, WideNine said: I know they lost their starting LT and that did hurt them, but much of the pressure seemed to come right up the middle on them from guard to guard. I don't think those were guys they lost playing us. Tampa was more aggressive and yet felt that they could stop most of the runs with their front 4 and get pressure. We can't do that with our front 4, we have to go man and bring extra rushers to try to create pressure, but our guys playing man don't match up with the better skill guys. Shaq barrett had ELEVEN pressure.....rushing from the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) Quote Shaq barrett had ELEVEN pressure.....rushing from the end. Folks keep missing the point that your Ends get more pressure when the QB has no pocket to step up into. With Suh and Vea able to crush the pocket Mahomes had to escape and slide left and right, where they pressured and hemmed him in well. Suh they also moved outside on plays and he was dominant there too. Mahomes struggles the most against pressure sans blitz. He knows exactly where to go with the ball when teams send the extra rusher. TB was able to pressure with their front 4 and contain the gap runs, their secondary harassed Kelce and bracketed Hill. I do think Barrett had a heck of a game, and it is kind of crappy how the Bucs treated him...trying to franchise him as a linebacker when they were using him as a DE. I think he only signed a 1 year deal. Edited February 15, 2021 by WideNine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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