So a super fast, physical, and aggressive front 7 is the key...

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Oh God, please do not draft a RB!

 

Get one off the waiver wire; they are everywhere.

 

who do you suggest?   

[WideNine]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:35 PM, turftoe said:

Devin White is the benchmark for all NFL MLBs. Instincts way beyond Edmunds, who plays tentatively. Our DL was way better last year. Our interior OL needs a lot of help. We are a long ways from being a SB contender. So glad we didn't make the SB this year. We would have been smashed.

 

He is also 22 and still pretty young so Tampa needs to stay patient - some day he will play up to his potential 😈

 

 

Edmunds is an anomaly to me. His stats seem to be on par with many LBs so are we just more focused on his negative plays? My eyes say he is often out of position, rarely tackles for a loss or breaks up passes, had a poor year, and is not much of a game changer on the field; However, how much the injuries and shoddy d-line play this year factored into the slip in his play and how he was being used I can't say.

 

He played through a painful injury this year and the guys in front of him struggled, so I think it is fair to see if he turns his play around next year.

 

PFF graded Edmunds at 59.4 in 2019, and worse this year at 47.9. Coaches and players have a say in pro-bowl voting so I have to think they are seeing things that we are missing. My biggest issue with Edmunds is that he seems to be getting worse or just not improving much especially in pass coverage. That being said, he and White surprisingly have some similar pass defense numbers and PFF actually grades White's overall play lower at 43.4, so again maybe some of it is how each player is being used.

 

One of Edmunds more glaring flaws to me has been the whiffed tackles, but looking at the pro-football DB on missed tackles and it is a bit surprising where he ranks compared to others - look at Jerry Hughes...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/defense_advanced.htm

 

White is often used closer to the line and plays man coverage on TEs. Frazier has Edmunds often in a shallow middle zone about 8 yards (or deeper) I assume to play center field and defend against short passes and to make stops on dumps and runs. Most of the time I feel like he is just there to tackle guys only after they make the yards they need or more.

 

One area that White did clearly excel over Edmunds is effectiveness on the blitz:

Edmunds on 72 blitzes had: 

0-hurries, 1-QB knockdown, 2-sacks, 3-pressures

 

White on 91 blitzes had: 

3-hurries, 8-QB knockdowns, 9-sacks, 20-pressures

 

 

Edmunds stat lines do kind of explain why this year it really did not feel like he was trending upwards and taking another step in his development:

 

2018: 2 INTs, 2 FF, 12  passes defended, 93 Tgts, 635 Yds, 78.5 completion %, 8.7 Yds/Cmp, 80 solo tackles, 41 assisted tackles (121 total)

2019:  1 INTs, 0 FF, 9 passes defended, 52 Tgts, 266 Yds, 65.4 completion %, 7.8 Yds/Cmp, 66 solo tackles, 49 assisted tackles (115 total)

2020: 0 INTs, 0 FF, 3 passes defended, 64 Tgts, 543 Yds, 67.2 completion %, 12.6 Yds/Cmp, 77 solo tackles, 42 assisted tackles (119 total)

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by WideNine

[turftoe]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

He is also 22 and still pretty young so Tampa needs to stay patient - some day he will play up to his potential 😈

 

 

Edmunds is an anomaly to me. His stats seem to be on par with many LBs so are we just more focused on his negative plays? My eyes say he is often out of position, rarely tackles for a loss or breaks up passes, had a poor year, and is not much of a game changer on the field; However, how much the injuries and shoddy d-line play this year factored into the slip in his play and how he was being used I can't say.

 

He played through a painful injury this year and the guys in front of him struggled, so I think it is fair to see if he turns his play around next year.

 

PFF graded Edmunds at 59.4 in 2019, and worse this year at 47.9. Coaches and players have a say in pro-bowl voting so I have to think they are seeing things that we are missing. My biggest issue with Edmunds is that he seems to be getting worse or just not improving much especially in pass coverage. That being said, he and White surprisingly have some similar pass defense numbers and PFF actually grades White's overall play lower at 43.4, so again maybe some of it is how each player is being used.

 

One of Edmunds more glaring flaws to me has been the whiffed tackles, but looking at the pro-football DB on missed tackles and it is a bit surprising where he ranks compared to others - look at Jerry Hughes...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/defense_advanced.htm

 

White is often used closer to the line and plays man coverage on TEs. Frazier has Edmunds often in a shallow middle zone about 8 yards (or deeper) I assume to play center field and defend against short passes and to make stops on dumps and runs. Most of the time I feel like he is just there to tackle guys only after they make the yards they need or more.

 

One area that White did clearly excel over Edmunds is effectiveness on the blitz:

Edmunds on 72 blitzes had: 

0-hurries, 1-QB knockdown, 2-sacks, 3-pressures

 

White on 91 blitzes had: 

3-hurries, 8-QB knockdowns, 9-sacks, 20-pressures

 

 

Edmunds stat lines do kind of explains why this year it really did not feel like he was trending upwards and taking another step in his development:

 

2018: 2 INTs, 2 FF, 12  passes defended, 93 Tgts, 635 Yds, 78.5 completion %, 8.7 Yds/Cmp, 80 solo tackles, 41 assisted tackles (121 total)

2019:  1 INTs, 0 FF, 9 passes defended, 52 Tgts, 266 Yds, 65.4 completion %, 7.8 Yds/Cmp, 66 solo tackles, 49 assisted tackles (115 total)

2020: 0 INTs, 0 FF, 3 passes defended, 64 Tgts, 543 Yds, 67.2 completion %, 12.6 Yds/Cmp, 77 solo tackles, 42 assisted tackles (119 total)

 

 

 

Good information. Maybe some of it is the way Frazier plays him but you could see in college how White was a difference maker and had great instincts. Seems like Edmunds is around the ball at the end of the play and gets credit for tackles, just not creating the big play. I think he would be a better 3-4OLB but I could be wrong. He is not Luke Kueckly, who I think was the goal.

Edited February 10, 2021 by turftoe

[Georgia Bill]

On 2/7/2021 at 11:24 PM, Da webster guy said:

Get pressure with FOUR, win a Lombardi.

 

Bucs just shut down Rogers and Mahomes back to back, both have great skill position players around them, but it doesn't matter if you can't pocket pass.  

 

We have the franchise QB, and a two year window before Josh kills our cap space.  Sell out now for a nasty front four, get er done Beane Machine!

Great idea but with the limit in cap space, I don't think we have enough buying power...  

[Georgia Bill]

On 2/9/2021 at 7:39 AM, Niagara Dude said:

 

Sorry these two below are both free agents,  i would take either one and that would upgrade the play making at the LB position. Barrett seem like the better pass rusher and David seems like the better at covering backs & TE'S.  As for Fournette,  just a name i threw out there and the main point being is we need to bring in someone new as our #1 RB .  Singletary is both slow and too small,  not a good combination to have.  He game is all about trying to juke out defenders and  that may work in college but not happening in the NFL. Moss i would keep around as a solid #2 RB

 

Shaquil Barrett

OLB

 

 

Lavonte David

OLB

 

I bet there are a lot forums for AFC teams talking about how they need to get Lavonte David now, because everybody recognizes the Kelce problem.  His price might end up being higher than we can afford.

[97bills]

I hate it but this defense has a lot of holes the hole front 7 is average against good teams and terrible against great teams. I think being realistic if we can get help on the edge and a linebacker I will be happy. People that think we can fix the hole defense in one season are wishful thinking 

[97bills]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:34 PM, Aussie Joe said:

We need pass rush as the biggest priority in my view 

Been the biggest need for a while 

On 2/7/2021 at 9:46 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Fournette ran like that cause it's the SB. If you think he's running like that weeks 2-16, then you're the type of GM his agent wants to talk to. BUYER BEWAREEEEEEE. Hes a Dareus on offense

I agree 💯 dude has been in the NFL and hasn’t done nothing 

[97bills]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:42 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

I think push from the middle is needed more. Hughes and AJ can bend the corners. Need push from middle to prevent the step up. 

Good lord enough with Hughes he has 9 sacks in two years. And please don’t give me oh but he gets pressure because he doesn’t I’ve seen him go up against backups and he gets the same production

[97bills]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:29 PM, DrPJax said:

Not sure about this arriving sooner than expected. Too many teams , like TB , have shown with the right moves you can turn things around in a season. I mean the browns , fins , both made great progress this season. The browns look better on D and they have a better running game than we do.  We have josh,  diggs who bailed us out. Beane has been a master on the O with finding our QB, good receivers in FA & the draft.  However , he has also missed on tight end , our rbs appear avg at best , our interior o line was a mess except for Morse who was still solid.

 

Beane has missed significantly on the d  ( Murphy, Addison, really all the FA on d.  Norman ?  Wallace as our second corner.  Epenesa is marginal, esp given rushing the qb is supposedly an easy thing for rookies to pick up ,   Our lbs looked best when Klein got hot , but then he was benched and never used appropriately after Milano got back. ). and look how we got beaten by KC and how TB beat them; pressure on the qb and stopping the run while also pressing the tight ends and receivers from KC.  We play 7-8 yards off receivers all year except against Denver and Pittsburgh I believe. TB managed with pressure and also playing physical to neutralize Kelce and hill and mahomes had his worst game as a pro.  Beane and Mcd better learn from this blueprint.  Need to run more next year , just like TB did to keep the d s honest. Get out of zones dropping corners so far off and dropping the lbs ( esp edmunds who almost always drops 7-9 yards off the Los on any passing down ) so we quit giving up unimpeded routes to tight ends and crossing Wes and backs.    The d scheme tonight for TB was amazing.  Tb didn’t panic when they didn’t score right away either. Stuck to mixing in the run. It wasn’t even a gsme tomignt just like the afc championship game. We can turn this around tho with good draft , better coaching along the lines , and fixing the run game while we begin rebuilding our d front 7. 

Yea it was killing me every time Tony romo said that’s there all night when kelce was open 8 yards in the middle of the field 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, 97bills said:

Good lord enough with Hughes he has 9 sacks in two years. And please don’t give me oh but he gets pressure because he doesn’t I’ve seen him go up against backups and he gets the same production

But PFF says....

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, 97bills said:

Good lord enough with Hughes he has 9 sacks in two years. And please don’t give me oh but he gets pressure because he doesn’t I’ve seen him go up against backups and he gets the same production

You must be a casual. Hughes does so much more that doesn't end up on the stat sheets. Hughes is a baller. Watch the tape. 

 

I understand the numbers are a bit weak but he consistently causes chaos for offenses. He's a helluva player. No chance he isn't starting next year.  

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, 97bills said:

Good lord enough with Hughes he has 9 sacks in two years. And please don’t give me oh but he gets pressure because he doesn’t I’ve seen him go up against backups and he gets the same production

We all love what Jerry's meant to this team but he'll be 33 soon. And 3 of the last 4 years he's had 4 sacks. What's even more concerning is how few TFL he's had these last 2 seasons. If he's our best pass rusher we're in deep $#!&......

[97bills]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We all love what Jerry's meant to this team but he'll be 33 soon. And 3 of the last 4 years he's had 4 sacks. What's even more concerning is how few TFL he's had these last 2 seasons. If he's our best pass rusher we're in deep $#!&......

Tell that to the guy who just posted me lol I said same thing 

[97bills]

12 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

You must be a casual. Hughes does so much more that doesn't end up on the stat sheets. Hughes is a baller. Watch the tape. 

 

I understand the numbers are a bit weak but he consistently causes chaos for offenses. He's a helluva player. No chance he isn't starting next year.  

I’m 43 and haven’t miss a game in 30 years you must be watching red zone or something jerry Hughes is a ghost in big games and on a regular basics. If his back next year and getting must of the Reps were in trouble just like this year. He didn’t even sniff mahomes or Philip rivers and causes chaos just stop if you think that about him I bet if you seen T.j watt play you would have a heart attack

 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

If we get rid of Frazier, calling the defense and just let McDermott, call the plays we turn into the 85 Bears averaging 4 sacks a game unlike Frazier, who's defense averages a half a sack a game.  

 

I can not believe people don't see this there is disagreement on the playbook people if you don't believe me go to youtube watch old games from the previous years going back to when Mcdermott, took over. How does Jerry Hughes, go from smoking cigarettes going through the motions in one game then the next looking like Bruce Smith?  McDermott's defense would be legendary in Buffalo but he constantly goes back to Frazier calling plays  is hurting this team putting priorities into the defense and not helping Josh and the Offense continue to excel.  

[WideNine]

18 hours ago, 97bills said:

Good lord enough with Hughes he has 9 sacks in two years. And please don’t give me oh but he gets pressure because he doesn’t I’ve seen him go up against backups and he gets the same production

 

I am kind of in this camp as Hughes does get pressure, but sacrifices gap integrity and containing the edges.

 

It comes at the cost of a lot of missed tackles.

 

Still, not exactly a depth position on this team. Epenesa and Johnson may come on with more reps and time in the system.

 

Having some veteran presence in the rotation will be needed as our youngsters grow into their roles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WideNine]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:56 PM, gobills404 said:

Kelce had 15 more yards and the Chiefs RBs had 2.2 more yards per carry today against Lavonte David and Devin White than they did against the Bills. Our LBs were not the problem.

 

Yes and no. Correlation is not causation. KC had plenty of success against us in just about every facet and from goal line to goal line.

 

Tampa's LBs and front 4 matched up better pressuring, disrupting,, covering, and attacking KC's offensive scheme especially whenever they got near the red zone.

 

What yards they gained getting close to the red zone is less relevant than what happened each time they were knocking on the door.

 

KC drives:

1st half

Punt

FG

Punt

Punt

FG

 

2nd half

FG

INT

TOD

TOD

INT

 

I would not lay a lot of the blame on our LBs, we need a LB that can match up better on TEs, but the crux of the issue starts up front from the NT out.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by WideNine