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Super Bowl Game Thread: Kansas City at Tampa Bay 6:30 Eastern on CBS


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1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You know that I don't blame officiating..........and the officiating was terrible simply because the league entirely changed how they were calling plays in the secondary to the great detriment of the grabby, chippy Chiefs..........but I think KC compounded the issue by losing their composure.   They expended a lot on their outrage and looked gas after halftime.  For the first time, the Chiefs really paid for having a unit full of low character individuals.     

Excellent point ... but the Bucs have an inordinate number of low character individuals too!

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The Kansas city fan base deserves this game. 

Chiefs fans in a nutshell 

Watch LaVonte David and see why you dont pay Milano 14 million. They are on completely different levels. 

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1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Just to be clear, i was talking about last year (see my edit of that post if you’re interested). The larger point is that they have a TON of physical talent.

Yeah , I noticed that. They bailed Brady out a ton this year too but tonight just had the upper hand from the get. Winfield Jr is gonna be a good one!!

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3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You know that I don't blame officiating..........and the officiating was terrible simply because the league entirely changed how they were calling plays in the secondary to the great detriment of the grabby, chippy Chiefs..........but I think KC compounded the issue by losing their composure.   They expended a lot on their outrage and looked gas after halftime.  For the first time, the Chiefs really paid for having a unit full of low character individuals.     

 

Exactly - or to word it a bit differently, objectively the refs in the first half correctly identified and penalized fouls - but the Chiefs have been committing similar fouls without penalty including 2 weeks ago.

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2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Excellent point ... but the Bucs have an inordinate number of low character individuals too!

And a few are FAs....hoping McBeane change their process approach and bring them in. 

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4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly - or to word it a bit differently, objectively the refs in the first half correctly identified and penalized fouls - but the Chiefs have been committing similar fouls without penalty including 2 weeks ago.

The one thing I’ll push back against is the PI in the end zone. Brady threw that away (it hit the wall well beyond the EZ) and wasn’t remotely catchable. It’s not even really arguable, and it was a huge play.

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16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In 2019, they were #2 overall according to Football Outsiders’ defensive DVOA metric despite giving up a TON of points. The reason? Jameis Winston not only set a record for pick sixes, he threw picks and fumbled in his own end at a crazily high rate (and along with 30 picks Winston had a ton of fumbles too—12 total) . Most of those turnovers that occurred in their own end turned into points for the other team, and it wasn’t the Bucs’ D’s fault. Bottom line—Winston was terrible, and it had a huge impact on TB’s defensive numbers.

 

Exactly.  Tampa Bay has had a very good D last year.  They were consistently put in a bad spot by their offense.

 

Tom Brady didn't sign with Tampa Bay because they were rebuilding, he signed there because he thought he could be the "missing link" to take them to a championship.  And he was right!

 

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The one thing I’ll push back against is the PI in the end zone. Brady threw that away (it hit the wall well beyond the EZ) and wasn’t remotely catchable. It’s not even really arguable, and it was a huge play.

 

I agree - I said above in response to @Ya Digg? that I thought that one PI call was "a bit iffy" which was understatement on my part.  But in general, I thought the refs were calling legit penalties, it just took KC by surprise because 2 weeks ago the same plays were NOT penalties, including an unsportsmanlike on Chris Jones.

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Imagine how many 30 yd sacks and hot garbage plays Mahomes would have had if you put him on the Bills of Josh's rookie year.  There is zero doubt his whole trajectory would have gone very very differently.

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3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly.  Tampa Bay has had a very good D last year.  They were consistently put in a bad spot by their offense.

 

Tom Brady didn't sign with Tampa Bay because they were rebuilding, he signed there because he thought he could be the "missing link" to take them to a championship.  And he was right!

 

 

I agree - I said above in response to @Ya Digg? that I thought that one PI call was "a bit iffy" which was understatement on my part.  But in general, I thought the refs were calling legit penalties, it just took KC by surprise because 2 weeks ago the same plays were NOT penalties, including an unsportsmanlike on Chris Jones.

Agreed, but with regard to Jones, it’s on the refs to pay attention to attempts to aggro him given the history. Christ, Feliciano did it, and Jensen tonight was even more blatant. He retaliated, but the refs have to do better. I have no love for Chris Jones, but I do expect SB refs to have informed situational awareness.

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5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Some of the credit for the Bucs' win should go to the Chiefs' O-line, and their RT in particular. 

 

I honestly can't remember a game where I've seen so much immediate pressure as I did tonight. And I've been a Bills fan for 50 years...:lol:

 

If that was not Mahomes back there, or someone with similar mobility, they could have had 20 sacks! It was insane...B-)

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1 minute ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

I honestly can't remember a game where I've seen so much immediate pressure as I did tonight. And I've been a Bills fan for 50 years...:lol:

 

If that was not Mahomes back there, or someone with similar mobility, they could have had 20 sacks! It was insane...B-)

Agreed. A normal qb would have been sacked 12 times. KC went in with a garbage o-line, and it showed. Eric Fisher takes heat because of how high he was drafted but he is genuinely good. The replacement tonight (Remmers) was a matador, as was the RT replacement.

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29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly - or to word it a bit differently, objectively the refs in the first half correctly identified and penalized fouls - but the Chiefs have been committing similar fouls without penalty including 2 weeks ago.

The refs missed many offensive holding calls on the chiefs as well

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16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. A normal qb would have been sacked 12 times. KC went in with a garbage o-line, and it showed. Eric Fisher takes heat because of how high he was drafted but he is genuinely good. The replacement tonight (Remmers) was a matador, as was the RT replacement.

 

The other reason those tackles looked like suck is KC could not give them a lot of help because TB's interior DTs have to be double teamed. I think Suh is a POS, but a good article on the value of interior DT's that can stop the run and pressure the passer.

 

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/defense-interior-importance-against-kansas-city-sblv-media-day-ndamukong-suh

 

"Mahomes has the second-best completion percentage against the blitz in 2020, including the postseason, at 68.4%. His 9.5 yards per attempt, 15-0 touchdown to interception ratio and 135.3 passer rating against the blitz rank first. Yeah, Mahomes has a 135.3 passer rating when he sees five or more guys in his face.

 

And the Bucs know that. Even back in Week 12, they only blitzed Mahomes on 17% of his dropbacks, which was the lowest rate in a game under Bowles since he arrived in 2019.

 

But while Mahomes is good against the blitz – he's not as good against pressure. Again, making the distinction between blitzing and pressure. They are not one in the same. Under pressure, Mahomes has a completion percentage of just 48.0%. His passing yards per attempt goes down to 6.3. He's got a 5-1 touchdown to interception rate and his passer rating is down from 116.4 when not facing pressure to 78.7 when he is. Ten of Mahomes' 25 interceptions since 2018 have come against pressure.

 

So clearly, you need to pressure him. But maybe not blitz him…

 

Which is again why a four-man rush that can generate pressure will be so crucial against the Chiefs. The good news is that said four-man rush will now also be helped by nose tackle Vita Vea, who returned against the Packers after a 15-week absence due to a broken ankle. He played 46% of the team's defensive snaps in his first game back and had his presence felt, especially against the run, and in a couple of those sacks stolen by JPP and Barrett. The Bucs are simply a better team with Vea on the field and the Next Gen Stats back that up.

 

Against the run when Vea is on the field the Bucs give up an average of just 2.7 yards per carry. When he isn't, it jumps up to 3.9 yards per carry. Against the pass, the Bucs had a 32.7% quarterback pressure rate and a 10.5% sack rate in 153 dropbacks with Vea on the field. Without Vea, the Bucs have a 26.0% quarterback pressure rate and a 5.9% sack rate. That's a huge difference."

 

 

 

Edited by WideNine
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3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The refs missed many offensive holding calls on the chiefs as well

 

This game, or vs. us?

 

Overall, the league has been calling a lot less offensive holding this season.  But yeah, they were taking it to the extreme.

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26 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed, but with regard to Jones, it’s on the refs to pay attention to attempts to aggro him given the history. Christ, Feliciano did it, and Jensen tonight was even more blatant. He retaliated, but the refs have to do better. I have no love for Chris Jones, but I do expect SB refs to have informed situational awareness.

Feliciano did what? 

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3 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

The other reason those tackles looked like suck is KC could not give them a lot of help because TB's interior DTs have to be double teamed. I think Suh is a POS, but a good article on the value of interior DT's that can stop the run and pressure the passer.

 

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/defense-interior-importance-against-kansas-city-sblv-media-day-ndamukong-suh

 

"Mahomes has the second-best completion percentage against the blitz in 2020, including the postseason, at 68.4%. His 9.5 yards per attempt, 15-0 touchdown to interception ratio and 135.3 passer rating against the blitz rank first. Yeah, Mahomes has a 135.3 passer rating when he sees five or more guys in his face.

 

And the Bucs know that. Even back in Week 12, they only blitzed Mahomes on 17% of his dropbacks, which was the lowest rate in a game under Bowles since he arrived in 2019.

 

But while Mahomes is good against the blitz – he's not as good against pressure. Again, making the distinction between blitzing and pressure. They are not one in the same. Under pressure, Mahomes has a completion percentage of just 48.0%. His passing yards per attempt goes down to 6.3. He's got a 5-1 touchdown to interception rate and his passer rating is down from 116.4 when not facing pressure to 78.7 when he is. Ten of Mahomes' 25 interceptions since 2018 have come against pressure.

 

So clearly, you need to pressure him. But maybe not blitz him…

 

Which is again why a four-man rush that can generate pressure will be so crucial against the Chiefs. The good news is that said four-man rush will now also be helped by nose tackle Vita Vea, who returned against the Packers after a 15-week absence due to a broken ankle. He played 46% of the team's defensive snaps in his first game back and had his presence felt, especially against the run, and in a couple of those sacks stolen by JPP and Barrett. The Bucs are simply a better team with Vea on the field and the Next Gen Stats back that up.

 

Against the run when Vea is on the field the Bucs give up an average of just 2.7 yards per carry. When he isn't, it jumps up to 3.9 yards per carry. Against the pass, the Bucs had a 32.7% quarterback pressure rate and a 10.5% sack rate in 153 dropbacks with Vea on the field. Without Vea, the Bucs have a 26.0% quarterback pressure rate and a 5.9% sack rate. That's a huge difference."

 

 

 

Great post. Going back to his Miami days when he regularly stoned the Bills o-linemen, I have long felt that Suh had shockingly become one of the most underrated players in the league. He is a force out there—still extremely difficult to handle one on one.

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16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. A normal qb would have been sacked 12 times. KC went in with a garbage o-line, and it showed. Eric Fisher takes heat because of how high he was drafted but he is genuinely good. The replacement tonight (Remmers) was a matador, as was the RT replacement.

 

 

Mike Remmers might have cemented his place as the career worst performer in SB history IMO.     Between single handedly costing the Panthers a SB with his work against Von Miller and the absolutely atrocious job he did today.......just unbelievable.   I don't know whether to feel sorry for the guy or for us having to watch such a terrible player greatly impact two SB's now.    

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13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This game, or vs. us?

 

Overall, the league has been calling a lot less offensive holding this season.  But yeah, they were taking it to the extreme.

He had a sneaky-dirty hit after the whistle on the bills’ first possession that set Jones off, and then he later delivered what looked to be a kidney punch (judging from the video) that caused jones to retaliate. I don’t fault feliciano - they were trying to get to the SB and the book was out that you could aggro jones  into doing something stupid. He had been ejected earlier in the season for retaliating. On that play, the refs just missed the retaliation, but it was an ejectable offense.

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