The Great Tremaine Edmunds Debate

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It has nothing to do with being mature and hard working. That’s not the age argument. Players his age are experiencing these growing pains while still in college. He’s had to endure them while in the NFL. He was able to lean on his size and speed in college, he can’t do that in the pros. 
 

The big knocks on him coming out were that he was able to get away with a lot in college because he was genetically superior. The other was that he needed to put on more size to shed blocks. There’s been some growth but not a lot... is it completely out of the realm to believe he’s still growing and adjusting to his body at 22? 
 

I really don’t know how you can discount the fact that he’s spending formative years in the NFL while most do it in college. What do you think the result is if you dump a bunch of 20 year old players into the NFL?

 

 

 

As Scott pointed out, Devin White is the same age, and has one less year in the NFL.  He's not struggling with "growing pains".

 

Also, Edmunds played at 250 lbs in college, his current weight.  He stopped growing. How long will he continue to "adjust to his body"?

[JGMcD2]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Devin White is the same age as Edmunds and that guy is what a stud MLB looks like. 

17 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Devin White is actually a few months older (semantics) and drafted a year later. He was also selected in the top 5 because he was considered a pretty elite and close to finished product. 
 

Funny enough, his first two seasons aren’t all that different than Tremaine’s. 

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

As Scott pointed out, Devin White is the same age, and has one less year in the NFL.  He's not struggling with "growing pains".

 

Also, Edmunds played at 250 lbs in college, his current weight.  He stopped growing. How long will he continue to "adjust to his body"?

 

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

Devin White is actually a few months older (semantics) and drafted a year later. He was also selected in the top 5 because he was considered a pretty elite and close to finished product. 
 

Funny enough, his first two seasons aren’t all that different than Tremaine’s. 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

He needs to get better at reading the play pre-snap. When he does that, he will be able to trust his instincts and use his physicality to dominate. 
 

right now you can see there is some confusion after the snap. It’s really blatant during play action when teams get him to commit to the LoS and throw around him over the middle.

 

His timing on run plays needs to get better too. He’s either too patient or commits too soon which allows for those bigger gains. he needs to see the gap sorta like a RB does and hit it like a RB would. 
 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

48 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

And he consistantly gets voted to the Pro Bowl by his peers because he has cool dreads.

 

 

He gets voted to the Pro Bowl because he plays a devalued position and there simply aren't many good MLB's in the AFC.

 

I mean........name ANY Chiefs linebacker?

 

They are the favorites in the Super Bowl and their LB's are JAG's.

 

If you are going to put big chips into the MLB position he needs to be a playmaking machine..........otherwise it's a waste.

 

 

[wppete]

Convert him to DE. convert Ed Oliver to MLB. 👍

[Richard Noggin]

14 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

His love and pro bowl appearances have more to do with his draft status than on field performance. That is pure fact. 

 

I'm not sure you know what that word (fact) means. But I kind of agree with you.

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If you are going to put big chips into the MLB position he needs to be a playmaking machine..........otherwise it's a waste.

Agreed on the MLB point. With that being said, aren’t you the one who takes swipes at Beane because he doesn’t do a good enough job of finding elite players and drafting guys with elite traits like Metcalf? 
 

I feel like he made an attempt here and the results have been mixed. Any reason why it’s bad that he made an attempt at this type of player with elite traits? 
 

Also, it’s been like 24 hours and you still haven’t told me which playoff teams have a better cap situation than Buffalo. Waiting on that one because I’m genuinely curious. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by JGMcD2

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Edmunds is such a frustrating player...I feel that if he were a mid round pick, we would be looking to upgrade...but because he was a first round pick we are stuck with him, and will likely pay him top dollar...unfortunately...👎

Exactly, Bills fans are with Edmunds where I did not want to be with Josh Allen at the end of year 3, before the season started.

 

The problem with Edmunds is that because of his physical talent and because of the issues at DL, we still don’t know exactly what we have on him at MLB.  That means that Brandon Beane is going to take a leap of faith about his option.  My guess is that he picks it up, especially because he was a first round pick that the Bills traded up for.

 

 

[TailgateChef]

1 hour ago, Frat-Train said:

He’s like the new Star Wars trilogy, by Disney...  Starts pretty cool, but then Suddenly pulls hard to the left in WTF’s-ville.  Here’s hoping he can find his mandalorian and restore a little confidence in fans hearts.

Well done.

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Devin White is actually a few months older (semantics) and drafted a year later. He was also selected in the top 5 because he was considered a pretty elite and close to finished product. 
 

Funny enough, his first two seasons aren’t all that different than Tremaine’s. 

 

 

 

 

So White is a better player right now, at the same age....with fewer "lifetime repetitions"?  lol ok.

 

And Edmunds was absolutely considered "elite" coming out of college. He was a consensus 1st rounder and he was considered in the top 2 LBs by SI, ESPN, Mayock... 

[JohnNord]

33 minutes ago, 97bills said:

I agree with you and yes he has a bunch of tackles but never a big 3 and 1 hit in the backfield to me his just average but I hope he comes around 

He had 1 stop against San Francisco on 4th and goal.  It was a really nice goal line stand that he made.

 

Outside of that hit, it’s hard to remember another one 

[billsfan89]

Edumonds is a solid player. When he gets good DT play in front of him he can be really impactful. But he still has flaws and I worry about his man to man coverage ability.

 

Hoping with Star in front of him in 2021 and him having yet another year under his belt he can take a step up. He has all the physical tools to be an elite player. But he needs to improve his instincts and coverage ability.

[JohnNord]

12 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Devin White is actually a few months older (semantics) and drafted a year later. He was also selected in the top 5 because he was considered a pretty elite and close to finished product. 
 

Funny enough, his first two seasons aren’t all that different than Tremaine’s. 

 

 

I’ll disagree about the first two seasons.  White seems to have made a much bigger impact, at least in season2, than Edmunds did in any of his first 3

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Edumonds is a solid player. When he gets good DT play in front of him he can be really impactful. But he still has flaws and I worry about his man to man coverage ability.

 

Hoping with Star in front of him in 2021 and him having yet another year under his belt he can take a step up. He has all the physical tools to be an elite player. But he needs to improve his instincts and coverage ability.

The concern there is that the Bills defense was still gashed with Star and Edmunds in the lineup in 2019.  I do think Star will help but I don’t think he suddenly solves all the problems and play at MLB is a big issue.  Edmunds needs to get better

[JGMcD2]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So White is a better player right now, at the same age....with fewer "lifetime repetitions"?  lol ok.

 

And Edmunds was absolutely considered "elite" coming out of college. He was a consensus 1st rounder and he was considered in the top 2 LBs by SI, ESPN, Mayock... 

They have the same amount of repetitions. It’s just that White’s age 20 season was at LSU while Tremaine’s was in the NFL. 
 

I’m not really privy to the things that White went back to school to work on and what Tremaine has worked on, but I would venture to guess that White was able to focus on his deficiencies in a comfortable environment as a returning player at LSU while Edmunds was adjusting to being a professional player and working on his deficiencies. One guy had a little more on their plate. 
 

Edmunds was considered to have elite traits, but was still seen a development prospect with the ability to develop into an elite player. He fell to 16 for a reason, if he was closer to a finished product with his skill set he’s likely going higher, maybe Top 5 like White? I said pretty elite AND close to finished product for a reason. Both were important to the overall statement. 
 

It’s no longer worth discussing because you will absolutely never move off any of your points as you’ve made very clear before. It’s a waste of my time. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by JGMcD2

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ll disagree about the first two seasons.  White seems to have made a much bigger impact, at least in season2, than Edmunds did in any of his first 3

The concern there is that the Bills defense was still gashed with Star and Edmunds in the lineup in 2019.  I do think Star will help but I don’t think he suddenly solves all the problems and play at MLB is a big issue.  Edmunds needs to get better

 

The Bills rushing defense did slump in the middle of 2019 but both Star and Edumonds picked up their play. I think if Star plays like his latter half of 2019 form and Edumonds progresses a bit more I think the run defense will be strong enough.

[JohnNord]

35 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

He was also the 22-year-old captain of a top three defense (and the middle linebacker of a top three defense in his rookie season) in 2019 (and 2018). This was a weird pandemic year with no pre-season to get ready (which might just impact a team with mostly new players on the D-line and of course the loss of the mountain in the middle), he played a good portion of the season with a shoulder injury that clearly impaired him (and yet people here are calling him soft). He was playing much better after it healed, even if he made some bad plays. Yes, the Pro Bowl can be laughable, but a lot of that has to do with (1) players making it on reputation and (2) starters not wanting to play so 4th alternates wind up in Hawaii. First off, I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure most of Edmunds' votes came from players and coaches, not fans, so what "rep" is he coasting on? Maybe the players and coaches see things some fans don't. Also, he was voted 1st team this year. 

 

I'm not saying I think he's perfect, or that I don't see some plays that make me shake my head sometimes, but this attitude many here seem to have that he's been a total disappointment feels insane to me. I'm not in favor of extending him right away, but I am excited to see what happens behind a better DL with hopefully Star (or a similar 1T) back, with a normal season, in which (hopefully) he is not hurt.

 

Also, we were 13-3 and a game away from the Super Bowl. Edmunds was a key player on a defense that was dominant two out of his three years (every year where there wasn't a pandemic--limited pre-season and practice does mean something). Why are a good portion of the threads on this site so damn negative. I mean, the week after was one thing, but we're acting like this was a 3-13 team. 

 

I've always felt a bit weird about the phrase Bills Mafia, but I love that it was formed to try to promote fan positivity towards the players. When they attacked Stevie Johnson, the fans had his back. I'm not saying we shouldn't critique players, but some people seem to make it their mission and engage in hyperbole to tear players down. Does anybody here REALLY think Tremaine is terrible?! In any case, ultimately it's up to McD and so far they have given us pretty good reason to trust the damn process.

I don’t think “terrible” is the word but I think that most feel that Edmunds is average to below-average at times.

 

That’s fine but not when you traded multiple draft picks to take him in the first round.  And not when you had so many crowing about his athleticism.  
 

I don’t think you can say that the jury isn’t out on Edmunds.  He has a long way to go

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Bills rushing defense did slump in the middle of 2019 but both Star and Edumonds picked up their play. I think if Star plays like his latter half of 2019 form and Edumonds progresses a bit more I think the run defense will be strong enough.

I’m not as confident but we’ll see

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

They have the same amount of repetitions. It’s just that White’s age 20 season was at LSU while Tremaine’s was in the NFL. 
 

I’m not really privy to the things that White went back to school to work on and what Tremaine has worked on, but I would venture to guess that White was able to focus on his deficiencies in a comfortable environment as a returning player at LSU while Edmunds was adjusting to being a professional player and working on his deficiencies. One guy had a little more on their plate. 
 

Edmunds was considered to have elite traits, but was still seen a development prospect with the ability to develop into an elite player. He fell to 16 for a reason, if he was closer to a finished product with his skill set he’s likely going higher, maybe Top 5 like White? I said pretty elite AND close to finished product for a reason. Both were important to the overall statement. 
 

It’s no longer worth discussing because you will absolutely never move off any of your points as you’ve made very clear before. It’s a waste of my time. 

You should know what you have in a development prospect after 3 years.  Quarterback is the toughest position in the NFL and we are pretty certain we know what we have in our developmental QB.

 

Time is running out for Edmunds....tick....tick....tick

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

That’s fine but not when you traded multiple draft picks to take him in the first round.  And not when you had so many crowing about his athleticism.  

They traded a 1st and 3rd to move up in the 1st and got a 5th back as well. It didn’t set the franchise back. I’d say it was pretty reasonable to move up from 22 to 16. 
 

I don’t understand the issue with drafting the player with elite physical traits? I mean people routinely have been bashing Beane for not being aggressive enough and taking players with elite traits, but when he does it and it doesn’t work it was dumb to draft a player with elite traits? 
 

Which one do we want people? Because we can’t flip flop what we B word and moan about. 

[Southern_Bills]

Edmunds is a good player, great? Maybe not yet. 

 

Here's the real question, how do you get better at the position? I would say that's hard to do on the fly. 

 

I would keep Edmunds and get some help in front of him. We are trying to fix something that is no where near the weakest point of our team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I do find it frightening that Edmunds looked a whole lot better with Milano back. Obviously, teammates matter especially on defense. But Edmunds was supposed to be All-Pro level. Not sure he’ll ever reach that if he needs a decent LBer next him to play well.

 

Alert the Media: Football is a team sport, and players depend upon their teammates Doing Their Job to work in concert and make plays.