NewEra Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Why let him test FA? Cut Addison, Quentin Jefferson, Vernon Butler and John Brown. That's nearly $40 million in cap space and actually goes over when you count the final cap figure. That's your Matt Milano and JJ Watt money right there. If the contracts are structured right, they can still have $15-20 million in cap space. No, it’s not. Take into account dead cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Nonsense. There are not that many cover LBs as good as Milano in the league period, much less third round and below. Which is the very reason he seems likely to get big money. This is a money-related decision. If COVID hadn't nose-dived the cap, we would have kept him, and it's still possible we might. It'll hurt the team to lose him, but cap constraints force teams to try to find the least bad way to distribute scarce funds. Milano may end up leaving, but Beane already said that they want him and they've told Milano that. They want him because they're a lot better with him on the field. But the cap limit isn't a voluntary thing. If he goes, it'll reduce the effectiveness of this D. 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: First, no, that's not nearly $40 million. You're leaving out dead cap entirely. Second, if they cut three DLs, they will only have to bring in another one or two in FA to replace the ones they don't replace in the draft in the first two rounds or so, and that will chew up money. And third, there are presently about 40 - 45 guys on the roster who stand a chance of being on the final 53. We will have to spend more money on guys like a #2 QB whether it's Barkley or not, on a punter whether it's Bojo or not and on and on. And fourth, our draft class will cost about $6 to $7 mill. There seem to be about 50 posts saying this same thing each day - just cut the same list of guys and we'll be swimming in it - as if it's a new idea or makes sense. And it's just not true. They've got cap troubles. They will absolutely cut and/or re-negotiate most of those guys you mentioned, but when they do so, their troubles will not be over. I agree with all of this. what confuses me though, not regarding your posts, but rather what I see on the field: where was Milano in coverage vs KC? Scheme problem I assume? My only recollection of him the entire game, was blitzing and coming up short. I agree, he’s one of the better coverage LBs in the game....but where a was he in the AFCCG? I certainly didn’t see him make his presence felt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) You make him a nice offer to stay, but if he wants big money let him walk. I have no doubt some team will overpay for him. While Matt is a decent LB he’s far from a transformational one. Easily replaceable with a draft pick who isn’t injured half the season. Edited February 20, 2021 by SoCal Deek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Nonsense. There are not that many cover LBs as good as Milano in the league period, much less third round and below. Which is the very reason he seems likely to get big money. This is a money-related decision. If COVID hadn't nose-dived the cap, we would have kept him, and it's still possible we might. It'll hurt the team to lose him, but cap constraints force teams to try to find the least bad way to distribute scarce funds. Milano may end up leaving, but Beane already said that they want him and they've told Milano that. They want him because they're a lot better with him on the field. But the cap limit isn't a voluntary thing. If he goes, it'll reduce the effectiveness of this D. While I do agree, I would rather put that money towards the Dline, which would affect the QB more, thus get by with a lesser player at LB if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 35 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You make him a nice offer to stay, but if he wants big money let him walk. I have no doubt some team will overpay for him. While Matt is a decent LB he’s far from a transformational one. Easily replaceable with a draft pick who isn’t injured half the season. He's not a transformational one? And yet the team was transformed when he came back, they really were. Transformational is exactly the right word to highlight what Matt Milano does for this team. He makes the whole defense a lot better. Transformational, precisely. Now, is he a Khalil Mack, a Von Miller or a Za'Darius Smith? No. But he's transformational. And the idea that he's easily replaceable is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 10 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Why let him test FA? Cut Addison, Quentin Jefferson, Vernon Butler and John Brown. That's nearly $40 million in cap space and actually goes over when you count the final cap figure. That's your Matt Milano and JJ Watt money right there. If the contracts are structured right, they can still have $15-20 million in cap space. Where are you getting your calculation of $40M in cap space? If you use a site like "Overthecap" or "spotrack", You need to look at the cap savings in pink on the far right - not the total cap figure. There is an error in Q Jefferson's contract. When I do this for the 4 players you mention, I get a figure of $27M, not $40M Please remember that if you cut a DE, 2 DL, and a WR and sign a DE, you have three holes to fill, which will also cost cap. Those guys were on the team because they filled a need of a team that won 15 games last season, not just for shucks and giggles. Then there is free agency....in addition to Matt Milano, free agents the Bills may wish to retain include (grouped by position) Jon Feliciano Daryl Williams Ike Boettger (RFA) Isaiah McKenzie Dean Marlowe Levi Wallace (RFA) Corey Bojorquez Andre Roberts Andre Smith (RFA) Taiwan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Nonsense. There are not that many cover LBs as good as Milano in the league period, much less third round and below. Which is the very reason he seems likely to get big money. This is a money-related decision. If COVID hadn't nose-dived the cap, we would have kept him, and it's still possible we might. It'll hurt the team to lose him, but cap constraints force teams to try to find the least bad way to distribute scarce funds. Milano may end up leaving, but Beane already said that they want him and they've told Milano that. They want him because they're a lot better with him on the field. But the cap limit isn't a voluntary thing. If he goes, it'll reduce the effectiveness of this D. I agree that he’s valuable and in an ideal cap year he’s a priority. But there are very good coverage LBs in the draft. Jabril Cox, Baron Browning, the kid from ND whose name I won’t attempt, Pete Werner, etc to name a few Edited February 20, 2021 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said: While I do agree, I would rather put that money towards the Dline, which would affect the QB more, thus get by with a lesser player at LB if need be. I want us to draft a pass rusher, myself. Or bring in one. Other than that, Matt Milano would be my #1 priority. But fair enough that people have different priorities. We're going to be sacrificing players we would rather not. That's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: I want us to draft a pass rusher, myself. Or bring in one. Other than that, Matt Milano would be my #1 priority. But fair enough that people have different priorities. We're going to be sacrificing players we would rather not. That's the way it is. Believe me, it's not that I don't like him. But like you said different priorities. I personally have non pass rushing LBers further down my list than others but if there was a way to keep Matt, trust me I'm on board. I just don't see it right now with DE, 1tech, retaining D Williams, CB, OG, RB, and TE all also on the "to do" list as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: I agree that he’s valuable and in an ideal cap year he’s a priority. But there are very good coverage LBs in the draft. Jabril Cox, Baron Browning, the kid from ND whose name I won’t attempt, Pete Werner, etc to name a few Fair enough. Some of those guys will probably work out. Not all of the ones that do, though, will be as good as Matt Milano. The guy I was replying to said we could easily replace him in the 3rd. Will Jabril Cox be in the 3rd where we pick? Bron Browning? And for the ones who will be available, will they be as good as Milano, or close? If we're lucky, there may be one guy who would satisfy the rules Beane Bandit laid down, "you find guys like him in the 3rd round every year for way less money." You don't. If you're very lucky, there's one. And he's not likely to make the difference early that Milano made this year when he was in. You hit the button on the nose, though, when you say, "in an ideal cap year..." Yeah, again, we're going to lose guys we'd rather keep, and not be able to bring in guys we'd like to bring in. IMO losing Milano would hurt. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The fact that Beane is giving up this early on signing Milano hopefully points to plans to bring in somebody on defense he thinks will have a greater impact than Milano. If it’s Kirksey and shuffling the deck on the D Line, I think most will be unhappy. If a difference maker is brought in on the D-Line, I think most will understand letting Milano walk. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: The fact that Beane is giving up this early on signing Milano hopefully points to plans to bring in somebody on defense he thinks will have a greater impact than Milano. If it’s Kirksey and shuffling the deck on the D Line, I think most will be unhappy. If a difference maker is brought in on the D-Line, I think most will understand letting Milano walk. Keep in mind that Beane has free agency issues in other areas of the team, most notably OL but also ST. So "giving up on Milano" may be a sign that Beane's priorities are elsewhere. Keep in mind that, while people like to quote the 12-1 record when Milano played, they typically don't mention how many snaps he played. This is Milano's snap count from this past season: In 2019 Milano played 100% of the snaps in every game except one in which he went out injured, and the final, meaningless game; he also played 30-40% ST snaps. I disagree with people who think Milano is JAG. I think he's a difference maker and will be a serious loss to the team. But the fact is, we had to learn how to live without him this past season as he missed 6 games and only played (or could have played) the majority of the snaps in 4 of the 10 games he played in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Keep in mind that Beane has free agency issues in other areas of the team, most notably OL but also ST. So "giving up on Milano" may be a sign that Beane's priorities are elsewhere. Keep in mind that, while people like to quote the 12-1 record when Milano played, they typically don't mention how many snaps he played. This is Milano's snap count from this past season: In 2019 Milano played 100% of the snaps in every game except one in which he went out injured, and the final, meaningless game; he also played 30-40% ST snaps. I disagree with people who think Milano is JAG. I think he's a difference maker and will be a serious loss to the team. But the fact is, we had to learn how to live without him this past season as he missed 6 games and only played (or could have played) the majority of the snaps in 4 of the 10 games he played in. And the defense did begin to turn around without him. He's a huge part of the Bills defense but it's a position we can fill rather easily if the Bills want to spend on the position this offseason. I'm not sure what type of resources Beane and McDermott want to spend replacing Milano. If they choose to spend a high draft pick or decent amount of cap space then replacing his production won't be difficult. IMO I would try to sign a cheaper veteran and spend assets on DL and CB on defense. See if we can make it work. Edited February 20, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Milano makes sense on a team not paying a QB anytime soon. One that has the cap space to load up on talent everywhere and wants to pay an above average, though not elite, linebacker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: He's not a transformational one? And yet the team was transformed when he came back, they really were. Transformational is exactly the right word to highlight what Matt Milano does for this team. He makes the whole defense a lot better. Transformational, precisely. Now, is he a Khalil Mack, a Von Miller or a Za'Darius Smith? No. But he's transformational. And the idea that he's easily replaceable is ridiculous. Well we’ll just disagree then. He plays decent in pass coverage in McDs defense but isn’t a big asset against the run or in rushing the passer. I really like Milano but I’m not breaking the bank to build my defense around his talents. This is of course all just hypothetical blather since we have no idea what he’d be offered to leave. What’s something worth? Answer: What somebody is willing to pay for it. Edited February 20, 2021 by SoCal Deek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpen65 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Milano is a big loss without a doubt. He is a difference maker. Depressing to lose him because, like Shaq and Phillips, there's no amount of sugar coating that can get around the fact that when you lose play makers on defense the defense gets worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Milano is a bit of a mystery to me. When I watched him play, he seemed like a good LB, certainly not a great one. Yet the stats clearly show - and my eyeballs agree - the Bills are a much better D when he plays than when he doesn't. Not entirely understanding why this is true, but respecting the fact of the matter, I'm not happy that he's going to 'test' free agency and probably wear a different uni next year. This is very bad news for Bills fans everywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichRiderBills Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) I don't think Milano is a big loss. He's a solid playmaking coverage LB, undersized. He's a good player, but guys like him are not who you break the bank for. Teams that have broken the bank for his type of player/position almost have always regretted it. I would not bet my life on him getting the giant contract he hopes. A 6'0 225 pound OLB does not fit into most defenses in the NFL...maybe more than past years, but still not many. The proof is in the season; we looked ok without him when they settled in, especially when Klein had a few games under his belt to get acclimated. Our woes when Milano was gone early had just as much to do with the lack of stout guys in the front. We fill more depth there w/ scheme fit guys and we will be ok. I'm more worried about who is playing in front, and who we get in the LORAX role. Edited February 20, 2021 by RichRiderBills 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Where are you getting your calculation of $40M in cap space? If you use a site like "Overthecap" or "spotrack", You need to look at the cap savings in pink on the far right - not the total cap figure. There is an error in Q Jefferson's contract. When I do this for the 4 players you mention, I get a figure of $27M, not $40M Please remember that if you cut a DE, 2 DL, and a WR and sign a DE, you have three holes to fill, which will also cost cap. Those guys were on the team because they filled a need of a team that won 15 games last season, not just for shucks and giggles. Then there is free agency....in addition to Matt Milano, free agents the Bills may wish to retain include (grouped by position) Jon Feliciano Daryl Williams Ike Boettger (RFA) Isaiah McKenzie Dean Marlowe Levi Wallace (RFA) Corey Bojorquez Andre Roberts Andre Smith (RFA) Taiwan Jones I was counting the cap figures from their actual cap hits. Those guys all count anywhere from $8 million to $10 million in cap space. John Brown has a $9 million dollar cap hit, Addison is $10 million. I think Butler was around $8 million and Jefferson around $9 also. That's roughly $36 million on the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 4 hours ago, NewEra said: No, it’s not. Take into account dead cap. I didn't think dead cap counted on Salary cap space. Isn't that money that's already been paid out to the player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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