Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 512
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

2 firsts and a 3rd.    Seems like too much.   

Lions made out well there 

Holy coooow  

Posted Images

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So FWIW...while the overall #s are similar at a high level, there's this

Goff................................................................................................Stafford

image.thumb.png.6ba250353e3700110fd127e18ec9fa73.pngimage.thumb.png.87a222b4eac338f1d2c5442878903a32.png

Make of it what you will

 

One was under contract and has years ahead of him.  The other is at the tail end off his career.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Chaos said:

How could that work given the saints cap situation? 


restructure a few guys, and cut a couple others. 
 

if you can send taysom to Houston in the package it’d be a huge win. 
 

Brees could officially retire after June 1 also as a zero impact to the roster but big cap swing option 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Groin said:

Well...

 

Honestly, man, Bledsoe was on a team who surged, and was competitive in a SB, and later pulled the team out of the fire to get to the SB in the 2001-2 season.  Until his injury, his numbers were decent in that era of football.

 

But at the end of the day my comparison is apt.  The Rams essentially bet the farm on Stafford, and we've all seen this here before (twice: first with Robosack and then with Bledsoe).  For their sake I hope that they can win a SB with Stafford, but time will tell.  Personally, I feel like giving up first rounders (for an old QB) is a horrible mistake in an era where football moves so quickly, but maybe the Rams have become a binge and purge squad.  Who can say?

 

This is essentially my take on both points (Bledsoe and Stafford)

 

I wish the Rams well, but I'm not a fan of trading 2 1st round draft picks for a 32 yr old QB who has had the snot sacked out of him for more than a decade, trying his best to make something happen.

 

I know Tom Brady has played for a decade longer than that, but Brady has taken an average of 25 sacks per year.  Except for his 2nd season when he played only 3 games, Stafford has averaged 39 sacks per season.

 

He's tougher than leather, but a lot of his injuries read to me like things that add up in your 20s and hand you a bill as your 30s wear on 

 

 

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the most lopsided trade I've seen since....the Hopkins deal (ok that was only 10 months ago, but this trade is pretty darn bad). 

 

If I'm rating how good Stafford and Goff are, I'd say that Stafford is the 10th best QB in the league and Goff is closer to 15th. I think both of them are closer to being average than they are to being elite. I don't see either of these guys ever winning a superbowl (maybe they could catch fire in the playoffs like Eli Manning). 

 

The Rams are giving up 2x firsts and 1x third for a slight upgrade at QB. A soon to be 33 year old QB that has a lot of wear and tear on his body. It's insane. It's the worst QB trade since Carson Palmer 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Clyde Smith said:

Lions will probably fumble their draft picks with duds and busts anyway lol.

 

Actually, they hired the Rams director of college of scouting as the GM. Lions actually might be in a good spot for once. Goff, 7th pick and three 3rds. That is a good way to start

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

This is the most lopsided trade I've seen since....the Hopkins deal (ok that was only 10 months ago, but this trade is pretty darn bad). 

 

If I'm rating how good Stafford and Goff are, I'd say that Stafford is the 10th best QB in the league and Goff is closer to 15th. I think both of them are closer to being average than they are to being elite. I don't see either of these guys ever winning a superbowl (maybe they could catch fire in the playoffs like Eli Manning). 

 

The Rams are giving up 2x firsts and 1x third for a slight upgrade at QB. A soon to be 33 year old QB that has a lot of wear and tear on his body. It's insane. It's the worst QB trade since Carson Palmer 

 

 

You realise that there is an element of a salary dump at work  as well right?

 

The price the Rams are paying is inflated because Goff's guaranteed money is terrible...

 

As I said upthread... Im curious to see how Stafford goes with the Rams ( I expect them to be better), and Goff goes with the Lions ( I expect them to be worse..) but time will tell...

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

You realise that there is an element of a salary dump at work  as well right?

 

The price the Rams are paying is inflated because Goff's guaranteed money is terrible...

 

As I said upthread... Im curious to see how Stafford goes with the Rams ( I expect them to be better), and Goff goes with the Lions ( I expect them to be worse..) but time will tell...

 

 

 

I disagree that it would require draft capital from the Rams to trade Goff away. Sure, he's a bit overpaid, but I hardly think that contract is a detriment to the point that the Rams would need to pay someone to take him on.  He has the 10th highest cap hit for QB in 2021, and I said in my original post that I think he's the ~15th best QB. There's not enough of a gap there for the Rams to have to unload picks to trade him away. As far as guaranteed money goes....who cares? Unless the owner is a cheapskate I don't see how that is more important than the cap hit 

 

I agree that the Rams will be better with Stafford (but still not good enough to contend for a SB). Is it really worthwhile to trade 2x1sts+ for a guy that's a slight upgrade?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I disagree that it would require draft capital from the Rams to trade Goff away. Sure, he's a bit overpaid, but I hardly think that contract is a detriment to the point that the Rams would need to pay someone to take him on.  He has the 10th highest cap hit for QB in 2021, and I said in my original post that I think he's the ~15th best QB. There's not enough of a gap there for the Rams to have to unload picks to trade him away. As far as guaranteed money goes....who cares? Unless the owner is a cheapskate I don't see how that is more important than the cap hit 

 

I agree that the Rams will be better with Stafford (but still not good enough to contend for a SB). Is it really worthwhile to trade 2x1sts+ for a guy that's a slight upgrade?

 

Do the Rams have a better chance of winning the SB in 2021 with Stafford ( then Goff )?

 

Vegas seems to think so as they have reduced their odds from 18/1 to 13/1...

 

There is no doubt that McVay has an ego you couldnt jump over, but he has delivered some results since he has been in the coaching role at the Rams.. I think we would all agree that he is not an idiot, however he has all his chips in now and his window for success is only 2-3 years.. 29 other teams ( at least ) arent going to win the Superbowl either in that time frame...

 

Look .. I dont have a dog in this fight so I dont really care what happens ( provided on how it might effect the BIlls) ... but I just think its interesting to see if Stafford really has been a victim of circumstances of playing at a badly coached and managed team this past 10 years and if he was in a better situation he can show us all something. more... thats what I am interested in seeing...

 

 

 

 

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So FWIW...while the overall #s are similar at a high level, there's this

Goff................................................................................................Stafford

image.thumb.png.6ba250353e3700110fd127e18ec9fa73.pngimage.thumb.png.87a222b4eac338f1d2c5442878903a32.png

Make of it what you will

To me, the numbers look pretty similar.  I just take issue with the knee-jerk assumption that LA just got a massive upgrade at the position.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mannc said:

To me, the numbers look pretty similar.  I just take issue with the knee-jerk assumption that LA just got a massive upgrade at the position.


Well... as you said yesterday... the Rams coach and management think they have got an upgrade.... and their jobs actually depend on it unlike as scrubs here...

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:


Well... as you said yesterday... the Rams coach and management think they have got an upgrade.... and their jobs actually depend on it unlike as scrubs here...

I can only see it two ways. The Rams think they will win a SB with this trade or they just dislike Goff so much they would throw a lot of assets into moving him. 

 

I think when hindsight comes around a lot of people will know this was not a good trade. 

Edited by Lfod
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So FWIW...while the overall #s are similar at a high level, there's this

Goff................................................................................................Stafford

image.thumb.png.6ba250353e3700110fd127e18ec9fa73.pngimage.thumb.png.87a222b4eac338f1d2c5442878903a32.png

Make of it what you will


 

This is exactly what I was saying.  The Lions were built for attacking the deep outsides with their WRs and the intermediate middle with the TE and that was Staffords strengths.  That also leads to longer developing plays and more sacks.  It also tends to hinder the outside zone rushing attacks with quick passes off from that.

 

The Rams have a quick passing attack - lots of run/pass options with roll outs and either getting the ball to the TE or the RB to one side or hitting a crossing receiver going against the flow around 8-12 yards down field.

 

I will be very interested to see will McVay adjust his offense to try and fit what Stafford has traditionally done best.  I do not think they have the players for that as Detroit has had exceptional WRs with speed and size to attack the outside thirds of the field 15-20 yards downfield and Kupp and Woods are more crossing route type receivers.  
 

Can Stafford adjust and does he have enough mobility to consistently make run/pass option reads and quickly diagnose and make reads and throws as well as Goff did in the short areas and behind the LOS?

 

How good is the OLine really for the Rams? They scheme up protections because of play action, roll-outs, and quick read passes.  If Stafford is more of a traditional QB dropping back and holding on to the ball - ala his Detroit days - will the OL hold up or will teams knowing better where he stand be able to pressure him more than they did Goff.

 

The final piece that I think will be very interesting is where you really project these guys stats to be.  Unless Detroit revamps their offense (and I suspect they will) that is a terrible fit for Goff, but I think you will see Detroit become more of a running - short passing team.  
 

Where does Stafford go?  The Rams throw even more than Detroit, but lots of short passes for short gains.  in one less game Goff completed 30 more passes on 20 more attempts, but had less yards.  Does Staffords aggressive throws help open things up or does his decreased completion percentage have an impact.  Does the Rams rushing attack around the end zone limit his TD throws and he is closer to Goff’s 20. 
 

I think they will get a more consistent QB game over game and I think Stafford is marginally better.  I think McVay needs to adjust to Stafford and the team needs to adjust and I do not think they have the cap room or the ability to get new players - so it is going to have to meld.  
 

The biggest issue to me is the Rams did not get a ton of cap room in this deal - especially with some of Stafford’s bonuses due shortly and losing draft picks for essentially the next 3 years just hurts their ability to find cheap replacement level players.  I don’t think Stafford makes them the best team in their division, let alone the NFC, but they are top 3-4.  They got a slight improvement at a cost of 2 #1’s and a 3, but more than the cost they got older and less athletic.  
 

Tampa made that work - but brought in a boat load of new/former weapons to help Brady because of their cap space.  The Rams have to figure it out with the players they got or maybe even with less players due to the cap.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

For me - if I was the GM of the Rams, I would have been working with Miami and Houston to try and move Tua to LA, Goff to Houston, and Watson to Miami.  
 

I think between Miami and LA - Houston could have gotten 3 or 4 first round picks and Tua is a better fit to McVay’s offense and you get huge Cap savings in LA to help reload.

 

Miami gets Watson and retains their own first round picks, but gives up the Houston picks.  Tua then goes to the Rams for Goff and another 1st going back for salary dump and maybe the Rams save a 1st or have to sweeten the deal.  
 

I think that would have helped all 3 teams long term and would have been a much better use of resources than the Stafford deal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the total draft picks the LA Rams spent on Goff were the original trade up from 15 to 1...2 firsts 2 seconds and 2 thirds.

 

To unload him cost another 2 firsts and a third

 

Total tally 4 firsts 2 seconds and 3 thirds...yikes ;)

  • Shocked 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

well, im going to keep up my star player design crusade, and say this is a smart move for the rams.  they scheme to get super stars in as many positions as possible (important positions anyhow).  they fill in the rest as needed, and use their stars as a weapon/focal point.  i like that model, and i think our bills can make like 3 moves and have as many stars as anyone else and win our chip.

 

i think goff is actually a solid qb, but as is often said here the greatest ability is availability.  goff is physically slight, and small dings take him out, stafford is a hoss and has played at a high level while legit hurt (shout out to physically small beez, who balled on a broken leg.  he's just a different breed).

 

as hapless showed, stafford is also a legit deep ball threat, goff is simply not. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

For me - if I was the GM of the Rams, I would have been working with Miami and Houston to try and move Tua to LA, Goff to Houston, and Watson to Miami.  
 

I think between Miami and LA - Houston could have gotten 3 or 4 first round picks and Tua is a better fit to McVay’s offense and you get huge Cap savings in LA to help reload.

 

Miami gets Watson and retains their own first round picks, but gives up the Houston picks.  Tua then goes to the Rams for Goff and another 1st going back for salary dump and maybe the Rams save a 1st or have to sweeten the deal.  
 

I think that would have helped all 3 teams long term and would have been a much better use of resources than the Stafford deal.

With this deal, I see the Rams as having a 1-year window, and if it doesn’t work out, they may find themselves in a Houston-like situation, without a Deshaun Watson to bail them out, and Detroit may end up with a very high draft pick or two, courtesy of this trade.

 

Sure, the Rams have a very good defense, but Aaron Donald is going to be 30, they really don’t have a lot of explosive weapons on offense, and they are in a tough division that’s going to get tougher, as SF gets healthy and Kyler Murray develops in Arizona.  And of course the Rams will have very little draft capital with which to improve things.  
 

It seems to me they are putting a lot of chips in on the idea that Stafford is going to break out at age 33, even though his weapons are arguably less dangerous than what he had in Detroit this year.  With SF getting healthy, and probably improving their QB situation, it’s hard to see the Rams even winning their division, much less making a Super Bowl.  If it doesn’t pan out in 2021, I could see things going south in a hurry there.

Edited by mannc
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting wrinkle to this that nobody seems to be talking about: Detroit’s GM turned down a better offer from Carolina (a top 10 pick) to do his old team a favor (he was just hired away from the Rams a few weeks ago).

 

Maybe he ultimately just wanted to do Stafford a solid and was okay with the Rams package but it’s clearly worse than the #8 overall pick in this years draft. This was not a case of Detroit getting the best value they could for their asset and it just so happened to benefit the GM’s old bosses. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Big Turk changed the title to Lions turned down #9 overall and Drew Lock from Denver in exchange for Stafford for Rams offer

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...