Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Houston

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I truly don't care, and I'm going to treat this as a test of whether this can actually happen in today's NFL. It's not as novel as people think: we have the example of Carson Palmer, who was willing to sit out for a season. He pulled it off. 

 

Rules changed. No longer are fine waivers allowed.   

[starrymessenger]

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The price undermines the outcome.  What is a young top-five starting QB worth?  5 first round picks?  What happens to that QB's career once he gets to a team that just stripped itself of assets in order to acquire him?  And on the other side, what happens to the credibility and efficacy of the franchise managers who trade him away?  Their players and fanbase turn on them instantly and they may never get that trust back.

 

It seems to me that it is in the interests of both parties NOT to do a trade...

 

Hello Coach. I respectfully disagree. Unless there are factors interfering with the operation of a fair and open market, of which I think there are none in this case, agreement on equivalent value pretty much resolves the equities satisfactorily for all concerned. I don’t see how any of the constituencies you mention are well served if, for example, Watson sits out or is a malcontent, especially Houston’s management and fans. 

And if Watson goes to a team with lots of draft capital like Miami, the Dolphin immediately challenge the Bills for the AFCE title, and for the forseeable future. Haven’t checked their message board but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is sentiment in favour of a trade there. 

If what you say were true then people would never get divorced because, you know, the children. IMO sometimes everybody is best served by turning the page and starting over.

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The Texans have been around for 19 seasons and try as they might to fill that QB position with an elite player they have only had a little over 3 seasons of having an elite QB play.

 

You can say that it is in the "interests" of both parties to trade Watson..........but that's only true if they get his value in return.

 

If it took them 16 years to get an elite QB.........how many first round picks is that worth with the reality that it could easily take 16 more of them to get his replacement worth?

 

Short of getting back a franchise QB in return.........for which there are neither logical trade matches nor any reason to believe that Watson would waive his no trade clause for........its ABSOLUTLEY not in the best interest of the Texans to trade him.

 

It's also a terrible precedent for the league.    It's an unthinkable scenario, really.   Literally no different than if Josh Allen suddenly decided he was just plain homesick living 3000 miles from his family farm and demanded to be traded to his hometown 49ers.   If that starts happening the NFL will have to change it's rules to make the league much more run-centric to maintain competitive balance.   Which is bad for both the league AND the elite QB's.  

Franchise QBs are very hard to find. But that just speaks to the compensation that would be required to achieve a fair deal.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Would you rather have Jordan Love, Sam Darnold and 5 1st round picks in the next 2 seasons, or a malcontent version of Watson? 

 

 

No question,  Watson.

 

I like Darnold's potential but Watson is literally GREAT.   The chances of Darnold becoming that good are remarkably low.    5 first round picks is mathematically likely to yield you 2.5 very good players and 2.5 duds.   When you don't have an elite QB you need A LOT more than 2-3 good players.    And if you use one of those first round picks on a QB.......odds of getting just a "franchise" QB are historically around 15%.    The math is very much against the Texans getting commensurate value in the long run.  

 

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No question,  Watson.

 

I like Darnold's potential but Watson is literally GREAT.   The chances of Darnold becoming that good are remarkably low.    5 first round picks is mathematically likely to yield you 2.5 very good players and 2.5 duds.   When you don't have an elite QB you need A LOT more than 2-3 good players.    And if you use one of those first round picks on a QB.......odds of getting just a "franchise" QB are historically around 15%.    The math is very much against the Texans getting commensurate value in the long run.  

 

 

Yeah, that makes some sense.

 

The preacher is in a tough spot, because that team is horrible and will continue to be horrible with a ridiculous HC hire and no draft picks. What free agent is going to want to go there under these conditions? You just went 4-12 with Watson. 

 

There's not much to work with in Houston. He could cash in on Watson and get back a whole bunch of talent and picks. Or use some of the picks to trade for rostered players on other teams uninvolved with the Watson trade. 

 

 

[colin]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s the point. The NFL is the only sport without guarantee contracts. The Texans can Watson any time they want and won’t have to pay him.  It’s not like Harden (no respect for that situation) quitting on his team, showing up out of shape, & forcing a trade. Watson had maybe the best season of his career after they made one of the worst trades in nfl history, 

 

It’s funny that there wasn’t a lot of complaints when Eli and Elway forced trades before a they took a snap. Stafford just did the same thing and I don’t remember many people questioning him. There are only a few guy who have the power to do that in the nfl. The owners have far more power than the players. 

 

 

Elway and EIl asked for trades before signing a contract, there was that OT who dallas took mad late who basically said that's the team he wants to play for, kinda lame but not after signing.  Peters wanted more money from us after signing a contract, and we traded him (and what a mistake that was).  Stafford signed a while back, and that's also lame.

 

and you are just way off on the contracts.  nfl contracts aren't insane like other sports, but there is plenty guaranteed (like the hundo or so for watson).

 

i can see the ax you have to grind here, and it sucks.  players are already on the big side, if they get fully too big it hurts the game and makes it suck for fans, which is what i am and all that i care about.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So what about the billionaire owner who would cut Watson for no money going forward in a second if he gets hurt and valuable to them?

 

Fans who take the owner’s side in nfl contract disputes are strange.  In football, you always take the money when you can. It’s too risky not to. But Watson has done everything right and that team has become a joke. 

 

Errrr....what?  First off, most NFL veteran salaries are fully guaranteed for injury, so if Watson gets hurt his salary is guaranteed for the next season.

 

Second, Watson's $156M extension contained $79.8M of fully guaranteed money, period - his full signing bonus and his salary and roster bonuses through 2022 - plus an additional $37M for 2023 vest to fully guaranteed at the start of the 2022 New Year. 

 

So whatever may be in the billionaire owner's Scrooge-like little heart for intentions, it grew 3 sizes in actual contractual obligations and financial commitment the day he inked the contract with Watson.

 

Very strange take.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

 

Check it out (from Wikipedia): 

"On July 26, 2011 a video posted on NFL.com showed a press conference held by Mike Brown, the president of the Bengals, stating that he did not expect Palmer to return to the Bengals for the 2011 season, the organization wished him well, and that there were no plans to trade him. When asked why he would not trade Carson, Mike Brown answered: 'Carson signed a contract. He made a commitment. He gave his word. We relied on his word. We relied on his commitment. We expected him to perform here. He's going to walk away from his commitment. We aren't going to reward him for doing it.'"

 

They traded him two and half months later for a first round pick. 

 

First round pick and a conditional second that could have become a second first, but that's a nit.

 

Worth noting that the trade occurred mid-season and that, in the meantime, the Bengals had drafted Andy Dalton who led them to a 6-2 start. 

So the Bengals were like "OK, we got a guy, you can Go now Carson".

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Yeah, that makes some sense.

 

The preacher is in a tough spot, because that team is horrible and will continue to be horrible with a ridiculous HC hire and no draft picks. What free agent is going to want to go there under these conditions? You just went 4-12 with Watson. 

 

There's not much to work with in Houston. He could cash in on Watson and get back a whole bunch of talent and picks. Or use some of the picks to trade for rostered players on other teams uninvolved with the Watson trade. 

 

 

 

 

The kicker is that they are cap strapped.    It's complicated for them to even take on good veterans in trade to offset their risk.   I saw a trade in the most recent TDN mock draft had a trade with the Dolphins kicking in Xavien Howard.   The Texans can't take Howard.......he has a $12M+ cap hit.   Miami would have to convert huge money to signing bonus before they trade him to make it work.   And his value in Houston would be diminished by being in a re-build.    A trade can be worked but almost any way you look at it the Texans get jacked.   They are just plain better off letting him sort thru his feelings and hoping he comes back or kicking the trade down the road a year where they can actually ACCEPT some of the things they would be offered.

 

[Doc]

I doubt this is little more than seeing how bad a state the Texans are in and will be for years and wanting out to a better situation.  I think asking to be involved in the GM search, knowing it was a ridiculous demand, and all the "I can't take that the team is being run by a Jesus freak" were a means to that end.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

I doubt this is little more than seeing how bad a state the Texans are in and will be for years and wanting out to a better situation.  I think asking to be involved in the GM search, knowing it was a ridiculous demand, and all the "I can't take that the team is being run by a Jesus freak" were a means to that end.

 

 

Yeah I do believe that the coup that his buddy James Harden pulled off really motivated Watson to try to do the same.    Harden didn't have any leverage but he was still able to get it done.    I find it impossible to believe that Watson, and more obviously, his agency didn't see the impending state of the franchise when they signed that contract this summer.   At the time they probably thought that 2020 would be competitive and then they might have to take a step back and re-load in 2021.   It doesn't take long to turn around NFL teams but this offseason was not going to be kind to the Texans either way.   As bad as the Texans state is right now they could easily be back in ascend-mode with Watson in 2022 and frankly he's not going to be playing with a bunch of bums on offense, they would still be fun to watch on that side of the ball.  

 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

Do you think if we offered Allen straight up for Watson that Houston would take it? 

 

That's a dumb question.  The Bills wouldn't trade Josh, much less straight up, much much less for Watson.  You know, playoff record...

[SCBills]

5 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

Do you think if we offered Allen straight up for Watson that Houston would take it? 

Booooo

Change your screen name to NOTABillsfan

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 It’s funny that there wasn’t a lot of complaints when Eli and Elway forced trades before a they took a snap. Stafford just did the same thing and I don’t remember many people questioning him. There are only a few guy who have the power to do that in the nfl. The owners have far more power than the players. 

And glad to see the years have changed you from being a Richard head, never change. 😉

 

Stafford is a terrible example. He's been in Detroit for like 10 years. Maybe even more. And it is a mutual break up between Stafford and the Lions.

 

I do recall people giving Eli grief over the Manning's forcing a trade. 

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Stafford is a terrible example. He's been in Detroit for like 10 years. Maybe even more. And it is a mutual break up between Stafford and the Lions.

 

I do recall people giving Eli grief over the Manning's forcing a trade. 

 

I'm interested to see what Stafford can do in LA.  I was never overly impressed with him and think that a good QB will raise a team, and franchise, around him.

 

And yes, people gave Eli a ton of ***** for what he did.

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The kicker is that they are cap strapped.    It's complicated for them to even take on good veterans in trade to offset their risk.   I saw a trade in the most recent TDN mock draft had a trade with the Dolphins kicking in Xavien Howard.   The Texans can't take Howard.......he has a $12M+ cap hit.   Miami would have to convert huge money to signing bonus before they trade him to make it work.   And his value in Houston would be diminished by being in a re-build.    A trade can be worked but almost any way you look at it the Texans get jacked.   They are just plain better off letting him sort thru his feelings and hoping he comes back or kicking the trade down the road a year where they can actually ACCEPT some of the things they would be offered.

 

 

That is actually a good point about the benefit of kicking the trade can down the road for a year. Do what I think they had to do anyway which is eat a lot of the bad contracts they have this year, wait until 2022 when take Watson out and have almost the whole cap to work with and then see if you can get the right mix of players and picks back and you already have a top 3 pick of your own at that point. I doubt very much Watson loses significant value through sitting out a year.

[Bangarang]

18 hours ago, Rico said:

I don’t want to throw Watson under the bus just yet, but it looks like he may be turning out to be another Kaep.

In what way?

[Rico]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

In what way?

Misfit.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is actually a good point about the benefit of kicking the trade can down the road for a year. Do what I think they had to do anyway which is eat a lot of the bad contracts they have this year, wait until 2022 when take Watson out and have almost the whole cap to work with and then see if you can get the right mix of players and picks back and you already have a top 3 pick of your own at that point. I doubt very much Watson loses significant value through sitting out a year.

 

 

The appetite for teams that want Watson can only grow over the next year if he sits out,  IMO.

 

Maybe the value of what those teams can trade in draft capital changes for the lesser......but ultimately I think the OVERALL value(picks + players) won't be any less.  

 

This isn't a generational draft, IMO.   Having the 2nd or 3rd pick isn't likely to provide a talent they couldn't acquire next year.

 

A trade right now only throws a whole lotta' miscellaneous weight on a rudderless ship.

 

If Watson doesn't play then maybe Culley should just go Jauron ball and try to fix his locker room and get the right kind of attitude installed in it and THEN the Texans might actually have an idea of what they even want and need to go forward.

 

Maybe in that time they even actually find a team that can trade them a young franchise QB+ for their elite QB.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The appetite for teams that want Watson can only grow over the next year if he sits out,  IMO.

 

Maybe the value of what those teams can trade in draft capital changes for the lesser......but ultimately I think the OVERALL value(picks + players) won't be any less.  

 

This isn't a generational draft, IMO.   Having the 2nd or 3rd pick isn't likely to provide a talent they couldn't acquire next year.

 

A trade right now only throws a whole lotta' miscellaneous weight on a rudderless ship.

 

If Watson doesn't play then maybe Culley should just go Jauron ball and try to fix his locker room and get the right kind of attitude installed in it and THEN the Texans might actually have an idea of what they even want and need to go forward.

 

Maybe in that time they even actually find a team that can trade them a young franchise QB+ for their elite QB.  

 

Yeah, and getting the 1st overall from the Jags isn't happening.  That's why talk of Miami having the 3rd overall and another 1st rounder later don't sway the Texans into rushing and trading him, versus letting him simma down nah ands maybe come back to them.

[TheFunPolice]

Culley and the televangelist are both embarrassing hires for the Texans. They have put themselves in this position.

 

Watson wanted Bienemy, so hiring the guy who was thought of as a top-notch coaching prospect (however he interviews) AT LEAST gets the preacher some good PR and makes Watson happy. 

 

Instead, they made the most ridiculous hire they could in a guy who at age 65 has never even been a coordinator, and wasn't a serious candidate anywhere. they HAD to know how this was going to go. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by TheFunPolice