"Some in the league think Josh Allen has caught Patrick Mahomes", per PFT

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

 

This one only includes last season....I am still looking for where I found the 2018-2021 stat....but this illustrates the same point.

 

Yeah Mahomes was a monster last year. Lead the entire league in passer rating on 3rd and 10+ with a 122 rating. A little bit different story this year for Mahomes though where I think Allen over took him. I did hear someone say Mahomes lead the league in rushing first downs on 3rd and 10+ though or 3rd and 13+. So that could raise the QBR. But yeah, basically both QB's have been consistently very good on 3rd and long. Not a big surprise with their mobility and big arms.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Billl said:

Josh is inarguably more athletic than the guy who’s been drafted in both the MLB and NFL drafts?  Mahomes played shortstop and pitcher with a 95 MPH fastball in HS.  Did I miss Allen getting drafted by the NBA or something?  Josh is a hell of an athlete, but so is Patrick.

 

Throwing a fastball defines athleticism? Doesn't Allen also throw a 90+ mph fastball? Wasn’t he also a multi-sport athlete?

 

And honestly, I made athleticism a pretty broad category when I should have broken it down to a bunch of categories like size, strength, speed, elusiveness, etc.

[Doc]

Be honest.  Would anyone take the Bills' offensive players and coaches, minus Josh, over any of the Chefs' offensive players and coaches?  Diggs and maybe Chad Hall, but that's about it.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Doc

[Dr.Sack]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

These hypotheticals are so silly. Maybe if Mahomes is playing for the Bills, we are in the super bowl.  It’s stupid. 
 

What’s stupid is discounting the impact of coaching and supporting cast. The Bills roster is not there yet. We have work to do. This is not an indictment or our organization rather what we are building towards. 

[CincyBillsFan]

It's possible for multiple things to be true at the same time:

 

*  Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL. 

 

*  Allen is closing the gap fast and may catch Mahomes next season.

 

*  The Chiefs have more talent then the Bills.

 

*  If the Chiefs continue to be the better team then even if Allen catches up to Mahomes KC will go further in the playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Success]

Saying Allen caught Mahomes was probably a bit of a hot take, but looking at one game and saying that hot take was ridiculous is even more of a hot take.

 

The Bills had a bad game. It's weird to say, but it was UNBillsy - as in the "new" Billsy that we got used to in November & December.  That Billsy was about lighting it up on offense, making big plays on defense, and dictating the pace of games.

 

I mean, is it okay to acknowledge that injuries to Davis' ankle, Beasley's leg, Brown's knee and Diggs' oblique had a bit of an effect on that?  No excuse, but it's undeniable this slowed down the offense we were used to.  The Chiefs secondary is good - but not as good as at least 3 that we faced the previous 6-7 weeks, and I didn't see one of our receivers open all night.  They were blanketed.  Our O-line also had an uncharacteristically bad night after giving Allen great protection all season. That's something I can credit the Chiefs' pass rush for to an extent - but there were breakdowns that we weren't used to seeing.

 

So yes - the Chiefs were better and are better.  But some are making too much of it.   I just don't have that "how are we ever going to catch 'em" feeling.  We played as well as they did all season long.

 

[Billl]

Allen finished ahead of Mahomes in the MVP vote.  Seems legit.

[gobills404]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Be honest.  Would anyone take the Bills' offensive players and coaches, minus Josh, over any of the Chefs' offensive players and coaches?  Diggs and maybe Chad Hall, but that's about it.

I would also take Dawkins over Fisher and Morse over whoever their center is.

[Success]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

They beat us easily two times.... They are clearly the better team and better roster. 

 

Mahomes > Allen. Why is this thread still going? 

 

I said they were better.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Last year this was Allen vs Darnold. Amazing year for Allen. 

[Dr.Sack]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Last year this was Allen vs Darnold. Amazing year for Allen. 

The WR talent got much better, Allen is maturing.

[UKBillFan]

I’ll preface this by saying I love Josh as Quarterback but I guess the easy way to settle this, taking the heart and emotion out of it, is if the Chiefs lost their senses and offered a straight trade for Mahomes then I think most of us, albeit not overly happily, would accept it.

 

Hopefully next year, at the very least, it won’t be such an easy thing to consider.

[Johnnycage46]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They beat us easily two times.... They are clearly the better team and better roster. 

 

Mahomes > Allen. Why is this thread still going? 

 

It's probably still going, because people post in the thread and ask questions like "why is this thread still going?".  It kinda like keeps the thread going.

[PrimeTime101]

flip a coin and drop it will yas? lol

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 hours ago, Billl said:

Allen finished ahead of Mahomes in the MVP vote.  Seems legit.

 

Can't really tell if you are saying this in jest or not.

 

 Their 2020 seasons statistically were a wash. Really no significant difference in QBR or Passer Rating. And Allen was the obvious chose over Mahomes in terms of added value to his team relative to the supporting cast each player had. I'm glad at least a handful of voters gave Allen their first place votes.

[transplantbillsfan]

15 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They beat us easily two times.... They are clearly the better team and better roster. 

 

Mahomes > Allen. Why is this thread still going? 

 

The reason is because of the year Allen just had.  And football is a team sport.  "They beat us easily two times" really doesn't have anything to do with the individual discussion of Allen vs. Mahomes because the 2 are never on the field at the same time.

 

Despite the misinterpretation of me trying to say Allen is Mahomes's equal earlier, let me be clear:  Mahomes is better than Allen RIGHT NOW

 

But Allen is creeping closer and closer and even though I think Mahomes is better right now, statements like "they aren't even in the same ball park!" are just not true.

 

I do think this argument brings back the argument of whether we consider what a QB does on the ground when talking about "QB play."

 

As a passer, Mahomes is obviously better, though they ARE in the same ballpark.  You can see this in the fact that vs. common opponents (meaning both of them playing against the same defenses... probably the best way to compare them), Mahomes has a passer rating of 112 and Allen has a passer rating of 103.5.  And you can tell that Mahomes is the better passer right now.  He's composed and Allen still has some of that "sugar high Josh" that pops up into his passing game.  But Allen is still improving and it's not out of the question that Allen could be better by the end of next season.

 

But when you start thinking about what they were able to do on the ground in those common games--Allen rushed for 395 yards and 6 TDs and Mahomes rushed for 221 yards and 2 TDs--I think Allen creeps yet closer to Mahomes, with Mahomes still being better.

 

I think this thread is still going because the trajectory for Allen is going up.  I don't think Mahomes will get much/any better, especially once he starts losing some of his weapons (Hill & Kelce) in the next couple years.

 

Personally, I can't wait to see what Allen can do with the actual threat of a real running game from our RBs next year... because I'm really assuming that's going to be a big focus this offseason.

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

I’ll preface this by saying I love Josh as Quarterback but I guess the easy way to settle this, taking the heart and emotion out of it, is if the Chiefs lost their senses and offered a straight trade for Mahomes then I think most of us, albeit not overly happily, would accept it.

 

Hopefully next year, at the very least, it won’t be such an easy thing to consider.

 

I wouldn't accept it, honestly.  Even though Mahomes is better than Allen right now, there's no sign that Allen has plateaued.  I think Mahomes has, albeit at a very high level.

 

I would bet on Allen continuing to get better.  And his potential ceiling is, I believe, higher than where Mahomes is right now.

[Success]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I just don't understand why you feel Mahomes won't get any better but Allen almost certainly will..... hurts the posts credibility and validity. 

 

Why are Hill and Kelce going elsewhere? 

 

Seems logical & based on trends to me.

 

Allen has improved dramatically with each new season.  I can't really look at Mahomes over the past 3 years and say the same. Granted, he was at a higher level as soon as he started, but it seems pretty logical based on trends & trajectory that Allen will at least improve more going forward.

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I just don't understand why you feel Mahomes won't get any better but Allen almost certainly will..... hurts the posts credibility and validity. 

 

Why are Hill and Kelce going elsewhere? 

 

Mahomes honestly doesn't have a lot of holes in his game the way I think Josh still does.  Josh has a few things he can work on this offseason and get noticeably better at.  Can you tell me anything where Mahomes can do the same?

 

As for Hill and Kelce... there's the contract stuff relating to Mahomes.... also, well... Kelce is the same age as Rob Gronkowski.  He'll be 32 next offseason.  Outside of Tony Gonzales, how many 35+ year old TEs do you know of that have played at a high level in the NFL?  

 

The fact that you asked about the 2 of them tells me that deep down you understand those 2 are synonymous with Mahomes's success.

[Ga boy]

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

The reason is because of the year Allen just had.  And football is a team sport.  "They beat us easily two times" really doesn't have anything to do with the individual discussion of Allen vs. Mahomes because the 2 are never on the field at the same time.

 

Despite the misinterpretation of me trying to say Allen is Mahomes's equal earlier, let me be clear:  Mahomes is better than Allen RIGHT NOW

 

But Allen is creeping closer and closer and even though I think Mahomes is better right now, statements like "they aren't even in the same ball park!" are just not true.

 

I do think this argument brings back the argument of whether we consider what a QB does on the ground when talking about "QB play."

 

As a passer, Mahomes is obviously better, though they ARE in the same ballpark.  You can see this in the fact that vs. common opponents (meaning both of them playing against the same defenses... probably the best way to compare them), Mahomes has a passer rating of 112 and Allen has a passer rating of 103.5.  And you can tell that Mahomes is the better passer right now.  He's composed and Allen still has some of that "sugar high Josh" that pops up into his passing game.  But Allen is still improving and it's not out of the question that Allen could be better by the end of next season.

 

But when you start thinking about what they were able to do on the ground in those common games--Allen rushed for 395 yards and 6 TDs and Mahomes rushed for 221 yards and 2 TDs--I think Allen creeps yet closer to Mahomes, with Mahomes still being better.

 

I think this thread is still going because the trajectory for Allen is going up.  I don't think Mahomes will get much/any better, especially once he starts losing some of his weapons (Hill & Kelce) in the next couple years.

 

Personally, I can't wait to see what Allen can do with the actual threat of a real running game from our RBs next year... because I'm really assuming that's going to be a big focus this offseason.

Our guy was running for his life and their guy had time to grill a steak and a potato.  Their guy has a better team.   I saw some throws by our guy during season that I don’t think their guy can throw.  I’d like to see highlights of best throws of both.  I’d pop some corn.  Their guy looks cooler because he’s got more horses.  Get our guy more horses and then we can talk.  Go Bills 🦬🦬🦬