leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 55 minutes ago, Logic said: So just to be clear, you’re arguing that Trump WASN’T an uncommonly enormous liar who lived in an alternate reality of alternative facts? We’ve already established the problems with digging our heels in that candidates like Biden and Trump are above reproach. It really seems to be that you folks don’t want to acknowledge it with Biden for whatever odd reason you may have. I’m a bit confused, Logic. You started off with comments on Trumpies, irony, liars-presumably carrying the flag for honest Joe. You included a link to an op-ed, with such gems as “Trump said he had support, but no polls backed that up” as evidence of 20,000 lies. 20,000 man! Then you moved the needle—bravely acknowledging that maybe, perhaps maybe, Joe might have fibbed once or twice, gosh he’s been in the public eye for 5 decades. I’ll ask again—do you know the Biden number or not? 6? 11? 1800? We can’t possibly define “uncommon” without establishing first defining “common”, can we? Surely WaPo tracks these things. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: We’ve already established the problems with digging our heels in that candidates like Biden and Trump are above reproach. It really seems to be that you folks don’t want to acknowledge it with Biden for whatever odd reason you may have. I’m a bit confused, Logic. You started off with comments on Trumpies, irony, liars-presumably carrying the flag for honest Joe. You included a link to an op-ed, with such gems as “Trump said he had support, but no polls backed that up” as evidence of 20,000 lies. 20,000 man! Then you moved the needle—bravely acknowledging that maybe, perhaps maybe, Joe might have fibbed once or twice, gosh he’s been in the public eye for 5 decades. I’ll ask again—do you know the Biden number or not? 6? 11? 1800? We can’t possibly define “uncommon” without establishing first defining “common”, can we? Surely WaPo tracks these things. Who is claiming Biden won't lie or hasn't lied? People are exasperated with some of the stupid needling ***** people are pointing out. Like I'll say that Biden saying he won't use the troops as a prop is weird claim to make. Every President does I mean they're the Chief Executive of the military they inevitably end up around them. I mean sure he probably won't call for a 21 gun salute when he leaves but it's a weird thing to give people to poke at. What you refuse to do is to acknowledge is that Trump broke the ***** scale on lying, I mean people had to create a debase and set new guidelines so it wouldn't' just be ridiculous and it still became ridiculous. https://lithub.com/a-hierarchy-of-american-presidential-lies/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Trump supporters, much like their God, love to project. They live in bizarro world. Their stupidity is a far greater threat to America than Covid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Kemp said: Trump supporters, much like their God, love to project. They live in bizarro world. Their stupidity is a far greater threat to America than Covid. And head in the sand, bleeding heart libs love sensationalized half truths and weaponized misinformation in an all out assault on sensible intellect and family values. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Warcodered said: Who is claiming Biden won't lie or hasn't lied? People are exasperated with some of the stupid needling ***** people are pointing out. Like I'll say that Biden saying he won't use the troops as a prop is weird claim to make. Every President does I mean they're the Chief Executive of the military they inevitably end up around them. I mean sure he probably won't call for a 21 gun salute when he leaves but it's a weird thing to give people to poke at. What you refuse to do is to acknowledge is that Trump broke the ***** scale on lying, I mean people had to create a debase and set new guidelines so it wouldn't' just be ridiculous and it still became ridiculous. https://lithub.com/a-hierarchy-of-american-presidential-lies/ I feel like I’m in a scene from Walking Dead, and the all the zombies are wearing Biden4Prez shirts. The link you provided is helpful to understand where you’re coming from to be sure. It certainly must be exhilarating to have someone do the heavy lifting on sorting through ‘lies’, ‘lie lies’, and ‘lies you needn’t fuss about’. I understand the appeal of simplifying ones life. I wouldn’t put Biden’s troop comments in a lie pile, IMO that’s more of a theatrical passive aggressive ‘look how cool I am’ appeal to his peeps. Admittedly I’m downsizing his lie count, but maybe I’m naive. Speaking of—this very cool write up and not at all subjective ‘database’ could just as easily be replaced with the lie count strategy they used for the last guy in office. Why do you figure they are employing different standards? Oh, and just to be sure I check—-what do you figure Biden’s number is? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 If lies were currency, polititions would be wealthy beyond our wildest dreams.... Oh, wait... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 On 1/21/2021 at 9:19 PM, Wacka said: Since this is day one , lets start a hew thread. List the lies Biden has told. !. I will not us the military as a show. Biden has 50K troops guarding empty streets. It is amazing how things change isn't it and the Mayor of DC hasn't told 1 national guard person that they need to get the hell out of their town and or called a National guard group a scum bag this time around as they did before but domestic terror is at a all time high ! Seeing as they are allowing them to sleep in a parking garage I'll give them a pass it just shows how good they are taking care of them . But hey people lets not bring up all this negative stuff and start hating from day 1 it will make all look just as bad as they did by pointing it out and you might just be censored if you keep it up . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) And now hundreds of these troops are quarentined after being exposed to COVID. Bad enough being in a parking ramp with only one bathroom. Edited January 23, 2021 by Wacka 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Warcodered said: Who is claiming Biden won't lie or hasn't lied? People are exasperated with some of the stupid needling ***** people are pointing out. Like I'll say that Biden saying he won't use the troops as a prop is weird claim to make. Every President does I mean they're the Chief Executive of the military they inevitably end up around them. I mean sure he probably won't call for a 21 gun salute when he leaves but it's a weird thing to give people to poke at. What you refuse to do is to acknowledge is that Trump broke the ***** scale on lying, I mean people had to create a debase and set new guidelines so it wouldn't' just be ridiculous and it still became ridiculous. https://lithub.com/a-hierarchy-of-american-presidential-lies/ Anyone that uses the Washington Post as there arbiter of lies is not worth arguing with because they believe the WP even when a 2 minute search shows that WP is factually wrong. A fact is that the Trump tax cut allowed American citizens to keep more money than any other tax cut in history. Them calling it a lie is built for those who can't give Trump any credit or those to dumb to understand numbers. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2019/06/20/471209/1-9-trillion/ I picked this article because it admits to the number while bashing the effect. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 11 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: We’ve already established the problems with digging our heels in that candidates like Biden and Trump are above reproach. It really seems to be that you folks don’t want to acknowledge it with Biden for whatever odd reason you may have. I’m a bit confused, Logic. You started off with comments on Trumpies, irony, liars-presumably carrying the flag for honest Joe. You included a link to an op-ed, with such gems as “Trump said he had support, but no polls backed that up” as evidence of 20,000 lies. 20,000 man! Then you moved the needle—bravely acknowledging that maybe, perhaps maybe, Joe might have fibbed once or twice, gosh he’s been in the public eye for 5 decades. I’ll ask again—do you know the Biden number or not? 6? 11? 1800? We can’t possibly define “uncommon” without establishing first defining “common”, can we? Surely WaPo tracks these things. Yawn. Get back to me when Biden starts openly denying reality, touting “alternative facts”, or lying so often and so forcefully that he incites a violent insurrection. Play all the word games you want. The guy you support was a historically awful liar and a dangerous con man, and we have the dangerous and embarrassing Capitol attack, and the diminished place of America on the world stage, to prove it. I truly couldn’t care less about the opinions of anyone who honestly still supports that Fascist, seditionist thug, even after he tried to overthrow democracy. Have a fun time with your “lie tracker” game. I’m proud of you for finally deciding, after the last four years, that you suddenly care about honesty and facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Logic said: Yawn. Get back to me when Biden starts openly denying reality, touting “alternative facts”, or lying so often and so forcefully that he incites a violent insurrection. Play all the word games you want. The guy you support was a historically awful liar and a dangerous con man, and we have the dangerous and embarrassing Capitol attack, and the diminished place of America on the world stage, to prove it. I truly couldn’t care less about the opinions of anyone who honestly still supports that Fascist, seditionist thug, even after he tried to overthrow democracy. Have a fun time with your “lie tracker” game. I’m proud of you for finally deciding, after the last four years, that you suddenly care about honesty and facts! You used lots of words to convey your apathy. There’s a disconnect there, but that’s sort of typical when disingenuous folks are confronted with logic. I actually think you’re anything but apathetic to the subject. Steady, Captain. We’ll get through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, Logic said: Yawn. Get back to me when Biden starts openly denying reality, touting “alternative facts”, or lying so often and so forcefully that he incites a violent insurrection. Play all the word games you want. The guy you support was a historically awful liar and a dangerous con man, and we have the dangerous and embarrassing Capitol attack, and the diminished place of America on the world stage, to prove it. I truly couldn’t care less about the opinions of anyone who honestly still supports that Fascist, seditionist thug, even after he tried to overthrow democracy. Have a fun time with your “lie tracker” game. I’m proud of you for finally deciding, after the last four years, that you suddenly care about honesty and facts! This mindset of trump supportors vs biden supportors is a highly toxic brew and it furthers the agenda of the .0001%. The middle class has been being chipped away at for long before trump's administration by not republican AND democratic polititions. And that's the dynamic that got Trump elected in the first place. People are exhausted with the status quo polititions who have the middle class footing to bills while the ruling class reaps the profits. It's so far beyond "trump supporters" vs "biden supporters" the democratic party HAS been shipping off middle class living wage jobs overseas and the republican party HAS been allowing loopholes in tax law to allow those who can afford an army of accountants to exploit, do so. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 So here we are, arguing with our neighbors shouting "I'll kick YOUR azz" and "NO! I'll kick YOUR azz" while the greedy sit in their ivory towers drooling and laughing evilly as they count their vast fortunes larger than the GDP of like 170 of the worlds 200 countries. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 21 hours ago, WideNine said: The man lost his wife and daughter in a crash and you are right, there is no proof that the driver was drunk but Biden clearly believed he was. Folks will go to their grave believing something that cannot be proven or disproven. If it was me and I believed the rumors about the driver, I would probably carry that anger with me for quite some time. I wonder how Trump would have reacted if it was his Ivanka steamrolled by another driver? First, one should keep in mind that this was 1972... Seat belts? Breathalyzers? Standards for determining DUI's at an accident scene? Reports from the boots on the ground: "This raised eyebrows, as it may indicate that Biden lied when he implied that the driver had been drinking. According to Lou Angeli, the fireman at the scene, there was no evidence that establishes or disproves that point. Angeli said that in regards to intoxication, the driver Curtis C. Dunn was not assessed, and there was no way to determine if he had been drinking at that time since neither of the police officers had breathalyzers on their cop cars. Angeli asserted that this alleged aspect of the accident was not a lie Biden made up out of whole cloth, and that right or wrong, rumor or belief that drinking had contributed to the crash was prevalent among the community." Is this tragedy really where Trump supporters want to dig? I can't speak for Trump supporters, and as I wrote, it seems like you and I are mostly on the same page. What Biden did is wrong, understandable to an extent given the circumstances, but even he knew it and made amends for it. Your point about Trump plays into my greater point, instead of making excuses for Biden or denying the reality of the situation why not acknowledge his wrong and instead focus on what he did right? How much stronger is your argument by acknowledging the reality and then turn it around and ask Trumpies if Trump would have been strong enough to apologize in the same circumstances? No reasonable person can say yes. And on some level we are all reasonable. Both the left and the right share equal efforts to deny reality and pick at isolated details to try and rewrite reality and mostly miss what's really important. Kind of like Trumpies won't acknowledge that his role in January 6th was just plain wrong and he is at fault for helping incite it. For America to heal, we need to do better than this. That is all. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 hours ago, TSOL said: And head in the sand, bleeding heart libs love sensationalized half truths and weaponized misinformation in an all out assault on sensible intellect and family values. How else would we get away with eating children and obeying our Muslim ISIS leader from Kenya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 hours ago, TSOL said: And head in the sand, bleeding heart libs love sensationalized half truths and weaponized misinformation in an all out assault on sensible intellect and family values. You do have to admit that there was and is a significant gap between the "sensible" intellect of Trump supporters vs liberals in the past. QAnon, white supremacist, armed extremist, kidnapping plotters, and nut jobs like the one below prove education and mental healthcare need greater investment. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKTvKFLpVSl/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Sure folks can and will argue social policies, but liberals did not storm the capital when Hillary lost. Did they bank on some legal moves or procedural efforts - yes, but imagine if Trump won the popular vote like she did, yet lost the electoral???? I am fairly conservative myself and prefer tradition. I am not a fan of all the weird labels and pc-speak that folks use like a wet blanket to deflect healthy debate or criticism. I do believe folks can try harder to tone it down, tolerate, and ignore. Myself included. I was told I was "gaslighting" and "invalidating my sister-in-law's existance" (amazing powers at my disposal). My crime? I only laughed and pointed out her vegetarian hypocrisy after she ordered a huge beef chimi at a Mexican restaurant. I probably should have just let it go, but was tired and she is one of those people who is always bragging about their next life-changing fad, and the controls I normally apply on my "inside words" failed. The wife was not happy, but it get's old. Was told she was still waiting for an apology. Not happening. I am ok with the labels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 hours ago, WideNine said: You do have to admit that there was and is a significant gap between the "sensible" intellect of Trump supporters vs liberals in the past. QAnon, white supremacist, armed extremist, kidnapping plotters, and nut jobs like the one below prove education and mental healthcare need greater investment. I love two bills drive forum because I love to hear the opinions of other people who are in a small way connected by something we all love, the Bills. And I appreciate your thoughts and respect yours and all others opinions and civil discussion. Politics, and religion are a highly personal thing and we all develop our feelings through our life experiences. We hold our values dear and we feel strongly about being right, even if it's just right for ourselves. 2016 elections was trying to choose the lesser of two evils. Me personally, I would have voted for Mr. potato head over Hillary (go ahead and joke about how I basically did). And a whole heck of alot of other Americans apparently felt similar. The democratic party completely lost me at late term abortions. Cite radical Qanon beliefs all you want but late term abortions are pure and simply unethical and immoral pure evil. That's where progressive liberal democratic idealism went off the reservation. That's where they lost me and I suspect at least half the country. It's an issue there is no coming back from. The democratic party made their own bed and since has been forced to lay in it. Hence trump. Trump is alot of rotten things but he ain't no baby killer. The radical groups spawned since then in support of Trump, that is what radicalized them. That specific issue. Now, I'm at the point of this. Anyone who can support the democratic party after this autrotious crime against humanity... Is just... Not my kind of guy. And the democratic party is not and never will be my party. I don't hold this against you, a fellow bills fan and fellow american. The event at capitol hill, about 10,000 Americans were there, and between 100-200 of them, bravely albeit stupidly, entered the building. What you call terrorists, I call patriots. What you call insurgents? I call revolutionaries. The forefathers were also called terrorists and insurgents, by the british imperialists. Today we call them revolutionaries and patriots. The great men that penned our bill of rights and our constitution. I do not support stupidity I do, however support fighting for what is right, no matter what the laws say. Right is right and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TSOL said: I love two bills drive forum because I love to hear the opinions of other people who are in a small way connected by something we all love, the Bills. And I appreciate your thoughts and respect yours and all others opinions and civil discussion. Politics, and religion are a highly personal thing and we all develop our feelings through our life experiences. We hold our values dear and we feel strongly about being right, even if it's just right for ourselves. 2016 elections was trying to choose the lesser of two evils. Me personally, I would have voted for Mr. potato head over Hillary (go ahead and joke about how I basically did). And a whole heck of alot of other Americans apparently felt similar. The democratic party completely lost me at late term abortions. Cite radical Qanon beliefs all you want but late term abortions are pure and simply unethical and immoral pure evil. That's where progressive liberal democratic idealism went off the reservation. That's where they lost me and I suspect at least half the country. It's an issue there is no coming back from. The democratic party made their own bed and since has been forced to lay in it. Hence trump. Trump is alot of rotten things but he ain't no baby killer. The radical groups spawned since then in support of Trump, that is what radicalized them. That specific issue. Now, I'm at the point of this. Anyone who can support the democratic party after this autrotious crime against humanity... Is just... Not my kind of guy. And the democratic party is not and never will be my party. I don't hold this against you, a fellow bills fan and fellow american. The event at capitol hill, about 10,000 Americans were there, and between 100-200 of them, bravely albeit stupidly, entered the building. What you call terrorists, I call patriots. What you call insurgents? I call revolutionaries. The forefathers were also called terrorists and insurgents, by the british imperialists. Today we call them revolutionaries and patriots. The great men that penned our bill of rights and our constitution. I do not support stupidity I do, however support fighting for what is right, no matter what the laws say. Right is right and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area there I get it and for the record I am pro-life. Sorry for the length, complicated topic. I do not think the patriot label applies to those people and it is there that we part ways on the topic. We rebelled against the British because it was a monarchy and we did not have a vote. Our forefathers crafted a nation of democratic rule where majority votes hold sway (well not women right away or black folks)...it is an evolving effort. Just because a disillusioned few did not like the last democratic vote and turn to violence does not make them heroes. Frustrated, angry, and enemies of democracy maybe. Think, if 4 years ago when Trump won, all those liberals grabbed their guns and what not and stormed the capital to prevent his electoral certification to defend their views. Would they be patriots too? No? Why? Because they hold different views from your own? e pluribus unum. Democracy is messy and far from perfect, but we have non-violent means to express our views and seek representation from our leaders. As to Trump's position on abortion over the years it has been fluid. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-evolving-stance-abortion/story?id=38057176 Edited January 24, 2021 by WideNine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, WideNine said: I get it and for the record I am pro-life. Sorry for the length, complicated topic. You are pro life yet you vote for a party that is pro death. There is no gray area here. Hypocricy is a thing y'know. 1 hour ago, WideNine said: I do not think the patriot label applies to those people and it is there that we part ways on the topic. Standing up at all costs for what you believe is the literal definition of true democracy. Those people did not enter that building to rape pillage and plunder. They entered that building to stand up for what they believed in. 1 hour ago, WideNine said: We rebelled against the British because it was a monarchy and we did not have a vote. Our forefathers crafted a nation of democratic rule where majority votes hold sway (well not women right away or black folks)...it is an evolving effort. Just because a disillusioned few did not like the last democratic vote and turn to violence does not make them heroes. Frustrated, angry, and enemies of democracy maybe. In New York state when I vote republican where does that vote go? In the garbage, the electoral college. And what violence? The violence CNN told you about? There was no violence. There was an 80 year old recluse from kentucky with a crossbow in the bed of his pickup truck. We needed 50,000 national guardsman for that? 1 hour ago, WideNine said: 1 hour ago, WideNine said: Think, if 4 years ago when Trump won, all those liberals grabbed their guns and what not and stormed the capital to prevent his electoral certification to defend their views. Would they be patriots too? What guns? Who stormed the capitol with guns? Sensationalize much? This is the CNN culture runaway train that the news media has created to put fear and dissent among us common folk so we turn on one another perpetuating the divide in america so the very very few can control the very very many. Trump is no angel bit this smear job being manufactured on him is in direct retailition for him flipping off global economic power brokers of international trade. You believe what you wanna believe brother but this pablum the general public is being fed by our phones, our tvs I'm not having it. I'm not buying it Fight the power. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 https://www.businessinsider.com/bidens-reportedly-left-outside-white-house-trump-sent-staff-home-2021-1 Why does this make me smile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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