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Phillip Rivers retiring


YoloinOhio

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1 hour ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

For the love of all that is holy please don't let Dak end up in Indy. Jerry - please pay him and keep him away from the AFC.

 

I was having a discussion about individual QBs and different scenarios when the idea of Dallas not tagging him a second time came up and I thought of the Nightmare of Dak on an already loaded team.

I'm not at all scared of Dak. He's a game manager.

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1 hour ago, Lv-Bills said:

Hopefully not, because that would mean that the Jets probably got Watson from the Texans.  I can't see the Jets moving on from Darnold for Fields.   No way.

Plus if the Jets make a deal for Watson the Texans will want Darnold as a piece of the deal. Kinda like how Orton ended up in Denver. 

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16 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not at all scared of Dak. He's a game manager.

 

You and the other poster that said essentially the same thing are delusional. Dak- on a team with a great O-Line a prime RB, and a solid D is the most dangerous QB short of Watson that is possibly on the market.

 

Game manager? Are you daft? 

2019 - 4900 Yards / 30TDs

2020 - 1850 Yards/ 9 TDs in 5 games

 

Stop being a homer and admit that if Indy had any number of other QBs in the league at the helm that will be on the market this offseason we'd be playing golf. 

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1 minute ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

 

You and the other poster that said essentially the same thing are delusional. Dak- on a team with a great O-Line a prime RB, and a solid D is the most dangerous QB short of Watson that is possibly on the market.

 

Game manager? Are you daft? 

2019 - 4900 Yards / 30TDs

2020 - 1850 Yards/ 9 TDs in 5 games

 

Stop being a homer and admit that if Indy had any number of other QBs in the league at the helm that will be on the market this offseason we'd be playing golf. 

Dak is the most overrated QB in the game. I'll eat crow if he wins something, until then... Overrated 

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Just now, babulator said:

Dak is the most overrated QB in the game. I'll eat crow if he wins something, until then... Overrated 

 

What's you basis for him being overrated beyond you're "personal opinion". Back up your talk with facts/numbers or your argument is essentially moot. By that definition Marino was overrated. So are Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford and Phillip Rivers and Deshaun Watson and Josh Allen because they haven't won anything.

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6 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

 

You and the other poster that said essentially the same thing are delusional. Dak- on a team with a great O-Line a prime RB, and a solid D is the most dangerous QB short of Watson that is possibly on the market.

 

Game manager? Are you daft? 

2019 - 4900 Yards / 30TDs

2020 - 1850 Yards/ 9 TDs in 5 games

 

Stop being a homer and admit that if Indy had any number of other QBs in the league at the helm that will be on the market this offseason we'd be playing golf. 

Playing golf? You're out of your mind. Indy was built around the run and great defense and that;s how they threatened us. We faced great QBs all season and it hasn't proven to be an Achilles heel for us yet.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Dak is the absolute least of my worries. He plays in the worst division in football, and we clowned him already last year. There are at least 10 QBs I'd take before him and if he was my QB I'd be looking for an upgrade.

I'm very very happy we don't have Dak. He's a Rivers-esque franchise killer. Too good to let go, not good enough to get the job done. Any team that signs him can all but guarantee they'll never win a super bowl - just like Rivers.

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3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Playing golf? You're out of your mind. Indy was built around the run and great defense and that;s how they threatened us. We faced great QBs all season and it hasn't proven to be an Achilles heel for us yet.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Dak is the absolute least of my worries. He plays in the worst division in football, and we clowned him already last year. There are at least 10 QBs I'd take before him and if he was my QB I'd be looking for an upgrade.

I'm very very happy we don't have Dak. He's a Rivers-esque franchise killer. Too good to let go, not good enough to get the job done. Any team that signs him can all but guarantee they'll never win a super bowl - just like Rivers.

 

The only reason we won in Indy was because River's couldn't deliver purely because his arm isn't what it used to be - end of discussion - we were lucky to get out of that game with a W. Prime Rivers would have killed us. And you are absolutely insane to think that Dak is NOT a top 10 QB currently and that you'd be looking to upgrade. More to the point I'd love to see you're list of top 10 QBs going into next year. You're being a homer and letting it cloud your judgement. 

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2 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

 

What's you basis for him being overrated beyond you're "personal opinion". Back up your talk with facts/numbers or your argument is essentially moot. By that definition Marino was overrated. So are Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford and Phillip Rivers and Deshaun Watson and Josh Allen because they haven't won anything.

We can agree to disagree but the NFL has historically been littered with guys that put up stats and never win. And Yes, I'd certainly Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford in that category too. None of them are HOF type QB's contrary to what alot of people may think. That in my book makes them overrated.

 

I understand you are very passionate about this but to ask for the basis of a common subject thats debated widely across the league is silly. You can make your case and I have made mine, the peanut gallery can fall where they may. I say he's overrated and a simple google search reveals I'm not in any way the minority here.

 

Go Bills!

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1 hour ago, BITE ME said:

 

lol.  Rivers threw for over 63,000 yards and 421 TD's.   Anderson threw for 33,000 yards and 197 TD's.  Rivers is a top 5 all-time leader in throwing yards.  He won't get in on the first ballot, but a virtual lock to get in the HOF.  

It's a different era though so you can't compare the stats directly, need to compare to peers. 

 

For a QB to enter without winning a Super Bowl he either needs to get to the Super Bowl more than once (Kelly, Tarkenton) or be an all-time great sort of guy (Marino). 

 

The argument for Rivers in the Hall-of-Fame using a comparable is probably not Anderson however, it's probably Warren Moon who is in fact in the HOF. In my opinion Moon was borderline to go to Canton, but in any event I'd argue he was a 1/2 step up from Rivers relative to his peers.

 

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22 minutes ago, babulator said:

We can agree to disagree but the NFL has historically been littered with guys that put up stats and never win. And Yes, I'd certainly Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford in that category too. None of them are HOF type QB's contrary to what alot of people may think. That in my book makes them overrated.

 

I understand you are very passionate about this but to ask for the basis of a common subject thats debated widely across the league is silly. You can make your case and I have made mine, the peanut gallery can fall where they may. I say he's overrated and a simple google search reveals I'm not in any way the minority here.

 

Go Bills!


Rivers absolutely does not belong in the HOF. He was a very good QB, but he always found a way to lose when it mattered most. Hi early Chargers teams were littered with so much talent, including LaDanian Tomlinson, who in his prime was as good as any football player ever was, along with Antonio Gates, in the conversation with Gonzalez for the best TE ever.

In all the years Rivers has been in the league, he won 4 playoff games - 2 more than Allen has. He's only taken his team to the playoffs 7 times over 15 years.

Spot on with the Stafford and Ryan comparisons. Very good throwers of the football, but not HoF QBs.

 

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Rivers is a lock to be in the HoF..... not first ballot - his no rings will prevent that.

 

Rivers has better stats than Big Ben and they came from the same draft. 

 

More to the point - people will say - oh it's a different Era.... ok.... who else from 5 years before and after him performed better.... The list is Brees, Brady, Peyton, and in three years Rodgers and Matt Ryan? That would be four first ballot HoFer's and another person in essentially the same boat as him. 

 

Who is on pace to eventually knock Rivers (averaged 3937 yds a season) down the list..... Rodgers (Short `12,000),Matt Stafford (Short ~18,000), Matt Ryan (Short ~8000), Russel Wilson (Short ~ 30,000), Jameis Winston (Short ~ 43,000), Deshaun Watson (Short ~ 49,000), Patrick Mahomes (Short ~ 49,000)

 

That's it, that's the list of people that have a shot currently of MAYBE surpassing Rivers. Rodgers and Ryan I can see. Stafford I don't know if he plays long enough in a starting roll. They are also the only three on the list from the same "Era" as Rivers. The next four are 100% from a different "Era" and have a long way to go and a lot of years before they can start to even sniff Rivers accomplishments.

 

Rivers will possibly go down as the second greatest QB to never win a SB, and probably becomes the #1 to never actually reach one. 

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23 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

 

The only reason we won in Indy was because River's couldn't deliver purely because his arm isn't what it used to be - end of discussion - we were lucky to get out of that game with a W. Prime Rivers would have killed us. And you are absolutely insane to think that Dak is NOT a top 10 QB currently and that you'd be looking to upgrade. More to the point I'd love to see you're list of top 10 QBs going into next year. You're being a homer and letting it cloud your judgement. 

In no particular order: Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Watson, Wilson, Brady, Jackson, Herbert, Murray, Mayfield, Roethlisberger. That's 11. I would also take a healthy Garoppolo over him - at best Dak slots in somewhere with Stafford, Ryan, and Tannehill. If Wentz can return to form, he's in that conversation too. 

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2 hours ago, T master said:

Well the Colts will have plenty of really good veteran QB's to choose from .

 

Wentz

Stafford

Tyrod

Ryan

Dalton 

And who ever else i forget and that's not even counting the draft .

Jamies Winston - 5000 yd season in 2019.  Maybe reich could dial him down to be  a game manager

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2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think he compares to HOF players with big stat numbers and no rings like Fouts and Moon. I think he'll get in. But the problem  moving forward is passing stats are going to be inflated. 

 

 

I don't know. That was a report. We'll see. 

I agree to a point.  His numbers are more in the Marino range when talking about players with no rings.   I think he will get in before those big stat guys retire and are considered.  He may not be first ballot, but should get in on the 2nd or 3rd try.

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Going to take a look at your list:

 

Disagreements:

1)Jackson is a pure Enigma of a QB - I'm not sold on him being a Top 10 QB or even a viable passing QB - I want to see him in a non-Greg Roman offense that is still designed to take advantage of his scrambling but not 100% reliant on it. I'll give you a "Maybe" because while I would not build around him as he's being used currently, I wouldn't consider him a waste of talent and would not give up on him

2)Herbert is a Rookie - lets see him repeat and improve before throwing in the top 10 because otherwise you need to throw Burrow in with him. 1 year does not make him top 10 material. 

3)Murray - Regressed Hard second half of this year and hasn't wowed me any more than Dak does - Honestly if you made video game characters Dak and Murray would be the same one if you just swapped their throwing and running abilities. I still think Dak has the upper hand on Murray and this may just be a matter of experience due purely to time in the league and relying less on the run.

4) Healthy Garoppolo still didn't put up numbers like Dak and oh... he can't stay healthy - pass.

5) Big Ben, Knees of Iron and Rust, has to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds and can't heave it down field beyond the first 6 weeks of the season..... GTFOH with that troll selection to your top 10 for next year.

 

Agreements to top 10 QBs for next year:

 

Rodgers

Brady

Mahomes

Watson

Wilson (Although..... jesus his stats after facing us tanked so hard it's concerning enough to imo put him at the #10 spot)

Mayfield

Allen

 

Looking at your list - based on numbers and the eye test - I really think Dak is essentially a Mayfield equivalent for skill and ability and what Murray's ceiling is (Which isn't bad).

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